Dark Phoenix The Simon Kinberg Thread - Director, Writer & Producer of Dark Phoenix

[lordofthenerds]

Kinberg is a very capable producer, that is not the issue. However, the criticisms of him as a writer are very legit. He doesn't seem to really grasp what the X-men (and the Fantastic Four) are about and often relies on rehashed plotpoints.

Which sort of begs the question why he insists on continuing to write these movies himself. He's already producing; he doesn't need to screen write these things for the money. Is it pride?

 

[psylockolussus]

He doesn't see himself as a bad writer. Fox as well as they keep hiring him to write.

 

[lordofthenerds]

He doesn't see himself as a bad writer. Fox as well as they keep hiring him to write.

The second point is more of a head scratcher really.

 

[Drexelhand]

Which sort of begs the question why he insists on continuing to write these movies himself. He's already producing; he doesn't need to screen write these things for the money. Is it pride?

I'd assume it was because he was a writer first and foremost. He didn't go to school and study film producing, he didn't win awards in school for film producing. He sold his first screenplay while still in university. He didn't become a film producer until his third film, Jumper, and clearly he must have impressed because that movie had a tight production and lost almost no money despite being **** because of his screenplay (although granted he just finished a screenplay by Goyer, who is a much worse screenwriter than him). Then there was First Class, the second film he produced - by all accounts that movie shouldn't have warranted a sequel on its box office, especially not with a budget that was $100million over what it made domestic. Yet, Kinberg must have impressed as a producer again. Throughout it all though, he's clearly never stopped seeing himself as a screenwriter.

 

[The Guard]

Which sort of begs the question why he insists on continuing to write these movies himself. He's already producing; he doesn't need to screen write these things for the money. Is it pride?

Or...he likes the X-Men and wants to write them.

 

[lordofthenerds]

Or...he likes the X-Men and wants to write them.

Then introduce him to fan-fiction.

Is it wise to independently write a movie when 7 of the 9 films you wrote were poorly received? Four of those being catastrophic failures both critically and at the box office (XxX: State of the Union, Jumper, This Means War, Fantastic Four). A lot of money and time are spent on a movie. Persistence in failure is senseless and shameless.

I'd assume it was because he was a writer first and foremost. He didn't go to school and study film producing, he didn't win awards in school for film producing. He sold his first screenplay while still in university. He didn't become a film producer until his third film, Jumper, and clearly he must have impressed because that movie had a tight production and lost almost no money despite being **** because of his screenplay (although granted he just finished a screenplay by Goyer, who is a much worse screenwriter than him). Then there was First Class, the second film he produced - by all accounts that movie shouldn't have warranted a sequel on its box office, especially not with a budget that was $100million over what it made domestic. Yet, Kinberg must have impressed as a producer again. Throughout it all though, he's clearly never stopped seeing himself as a screenwriter.

Unfortunately, this is true. He should really just move on from screenwriting though; he's proven himself to be a competent producer, just stick with that.

 

[psylockolussus]

I'm eager to see what reaction would Kinberg and Fox show to the press when Dark Phoenix is yet another collaboration failure from them. "We really like these characters and we look forward to improve things from here". Yadda yadda.

 

[Drexelhand]

Then introduce him to fan-fiction.

Is it wise to independently write a movie when 7 of the 9 films you wrote were poorly received? Four of those being catastrophic failures both critically and at the box office (XxX: State of the Union, Jumper, This Means War, Fantastic Four). A lot of money and time are spent on a movie. Persistence in failure is senseless and shameless.


Unfortunately, this is true. He should really just move on from screenwriting though; he's proven himself to be a competent producer, just stick with that.

While I really don't like Simon Kinberg's writing, its important to know the context behind all of those films.

xXx went under hasty rewrites to accommodate Ice Cube - yet, I still see Kinberg's fault because such rewrites wouldn't have been needed if Vin Diesel didn't absolutely hate his first screenplay.

Mr and Mrs. Smith is the best judgment of Simon Kinberg as a screenwriter since that is 100% him without bad rewrites or production delays. It has 59% and when I've talked to people about the movie, they generally liked it. I didn't.

Jumper is a David Goyer screenplay he was brought in to finish. So he was pretty much brought in to finish perhaps the ****tiest screenwriter's work.

Sherlock Holmes wasn't all him, but I do believe those sequences where Holmes is analytical of situations were something we know he did and was in an interview somewhere. I liked those situations, I'll admit.

This Means War was a situation like Jumper that he did because was also the producer on the film and wanted it to not lose too much money.

Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter was again like Jumper, where he tweaked the screenplay by Seth-Grahame Smith, another crappy writer.

X-Men: Days of Future Past - he first submitted a revised version of Jane Goldman's screenplay to director Matthew Vaughn. This screenplay is all around this forum. It completely licks in terms of dialogue. Bryan Singer mentioned in an interview how getting the dialogue right was a big thing for him. So the film we've got is one where Singer micromanaged Kinberg until he got the dialogue right.

Fantastic Four - after Josh Trank went off the rails, he pretty much had to commandeer the situation as a producer to make sure the film hit its release date. This meant hastily rewriting the screenplay. I can't really fault him for Josh Trank's abysmal directing and attitude.

X-Men: Apocalypse - this was originally written alongside Dougherty and Harris but Kinberg was rewriting it into production so they could hit their release date.

The situation is important, but out of all of that? I still feel like Kinberg is just not a good writer and that's looking at you Mr. Smith.

 

[X-Maniac]

His efforts as a producer may have pleased the studio in meeting budget and release date, but both Fantastic Four and X-Men Apocalypse have the sense of 'oh well, this will have to do, never mind the unfinished look, we'll have to make do with it now'

Both films needed more time and money spent on them.

 

[x-er]

^ Or a different team altogether. Based on Kingberg's film history and having only watched Mr and Mrs Smith (which is considered his best), I could see him directing/writing that Gambit heist film, which btw there was a script floating around here a few months ago that didn't sound to shabby. Direct a full-blown, sci-fi X-Men film, however? I guess we'll have to see.

 

[psylockolussus]

While I really don't like Simon Kinberg's writing, its important to know the context behind all of those films.

xXx went under hasty rewrites to accommodate Ice Cube - yet, I still see Kinberg's fault because such rewrites wouldn't have been needed if Vin Diesel didn't absolutely hate his first screenplay.

Mr and Mrs. Smith is the best judgment of Simon Kinberg as a screenwriter since that is 100% him without bad rewrites or production delays. It has 59% and when I've talked to people about the movie, they generally liked it. I didn't.

Jumper is a David Goyer screenplay he was brought in to finish. So he was pretty much brought in to finish perhaps the ****tiest screenwriter's work.

Sherlock Holmes wasn't all him, but I do believe those sequences where Holmes is analytical of situations were something we know he did and was in an interview somewhere. I liked those situations, I'll admit.

This Means War was a situation like Jumper that he did because was also the producer on the film and wanted it to not lose too much money.

Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter was again like Jumper, where he tweaked the screenplay by Seth-Grahame Smith, another crappy writer.

X-Men: Days of Future Past - he first submitted a revised version of Jane Goldman's screenplay to director Matthew Vaughn. This screenplay is all around this forum. It completely licks in terms of dialogue. Bryan Singer mentioned in an interview how getting the dialogue right was a big thing for him. So the film we've got is one where Singer micromanaged Kinberg until he got the dialogue right.

Fantastic Four - after Josh Trank went off the rails, he pretty much had to commandeer the situation as a producer to make sure the film hit its release date. This meant hastily rewriting the screenplay. I can't really fault him for Josh Trank's abysmal directing and attitude.

X-Men: Apocalypse - this was originally written alongside Dougherty and Harris but Kinberg was rewriting it into production so they could hit their release date.

The situation is important, but out of all of that? I still feel like Kinberg is just not a good writer and that's looking at you Mr. Smith.

So many conteXts, but he's still a bad writer so.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Simon Kinberg and Michael Fassbender at the Grand Prix Montreal (from Kinbergs instagram storie)

 

[Erik Lensherr]

https://***********/THR/status/1019635277415903232

 

[Erik Lensherr]

[YT]KS_U3bx4tX8[/YT]

 

[TheVileOne]

Regarding Mr. and Mrs. Smith, can anyone explain the ending to me?

Why do their bosses just suddenly decide to stop going after them? Just seemed like an abrupt ending that's never explained. They killed a bunch of assassins sent to kill them at a department store and that's it? How is that a resolution? Their bosses are still out there. Did they just decide to give up and let them be after that?

 

[Erik Lensherr]

 

[Erik Lensherr]

The king has spoken

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnCGSstBh76/?utm_source=ig_twitter_share&igshid=84e0rziwaxv0

 

[Erik Lensherr]

 

[Nerial]

It's very simple--Kinberg has an editor's brain. This sounds like a good thing, but for writing, it's really, really not. It means that he's excellent at breaking down stories; he's great at seeing "the forest through the trees" where typical writers can't. He knows a good story when he sees one and WHY it's good; he keeps organized and knows the structure of storytelling through and through. But at the core...he doesn't see the heart of the story.

He sees plot and characters like a math equation: trivial conflict + character death = personal, bigger conflict.

He relies on cliche gimmicks to drive plot--complications instead of depth--and always kills off characters to "deepen" the drama. I'm not against killing characters (love GoT), but when you see it a mile away like Magneto's family dying in XM:A, it's literally death fodder.

Writers can't see that forest through the trees; that's why they need editors ALWAYS. But they feel the characters struggle; they imagine themselves as those characters and let the story grow organically. Kinberg can't do that, and it shows.

He's a great producer with that editor brain of his. And he might be a great director (in fact, I'm confident with that). GET HIM AWAY FROM THE SCRIPT!

 

[I Am The Knight]

Who wrote the Dark Phoenix script?

 

[psylockolussus]

Kinberg the mastermind.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

 

[Mysteryman]

that video is no longer available, what was it?

 

[Erik Lensherr]

that video is no longer available, what was it?

Dark Phoenix New York Comic-Con Panel with Kinberg, Tye, Sophie and Hutch.

 

[Mysteryman]

Thanks Erik!