Homecoming The Spider-Man Skepticism Thread - Part 1

My amateurish review here:


Movie was, in a word, fun. It was pretty lighthearted & funny, and had an overall enjoyable factor higher than other CBMs this year. Tom put in a great performance as both Peter & Spider-Man here, and Keaton was the perfect foil. Both hero and villain were, IMO, the best part of the movie (their confrontation starting from when Peter comes to pick up Liz, up to their final battle was without a doubt the best section of the movie. Very tense, great dialogue & convincing performances from both). As everyone probably already knows, Stark wasn't in it for long, but when he was he delivered. The extended confrontation between him and Peter that was shown in the trailer was another great moment. Also, it was nice to see Peter get disillusioned by Stark/Avengers life and focus more on his responsibilities as a hero.


Peter here is a genius introvert, with his heart in the right place (and a bit of a smart mouth, there's a scene where he's in a shop with a Spanish owner who comments on May's attractiveness in Spanish thinking Peter won't understand him, but Peter asks him how his daughter is in Spanish in reply. Pretty funny moment). As Spider-Man he's eager to prove to Stark & Happy he's good enough for the big time, & as the movie goes on it becomes less about proving himself and more about stopping Toomes with or without Stark's knowledge or approval.


Toomes is definitely a sympathetic villain here. The opening scene has him being inadvertently screwed over by Stark implementating damage control, and you kinda feel for him. There's also the moment when he explaines to Peter why he does what he does and he remarks about how rich guys like Stark don't care for the everyman like them, and he gives a good argument. The supporting cast was good.


Liz was a likeable character in her own right, even aside from being a love interest. Flash, despite the character changes implemented served as a serviceable antagonist to Peter & with more Screentime and development could turn out to be one of the better cast members. Ned had the potential to be a funny but likeable & well meaning best friend, but wound up more on the irritating side. Jacob Batalon definitely is a good actor, with great comedic timing and played well off Tom's Peter but Ned's actions throughout leave him as more of an annoyance. Zendaya's Michelle was, different. She got out a couple of laughs at the screening until she mentioned her friends call her MJ, at which point there was a (well deserved) collective groan throughout the cinema. Pretty pointless change, she already proved popular enough amongst the movie goers until that moment. May was definitely not the doting, motherly May we know her to be traditionally. She was more of the younger, hip Aunt who's attractiveness is used as a bit of a joke (at a restaurant, a waiter gives her food on the house, a shop clerk Peter visits describes her as an 'attractive Italian woman' & Ned seems to have a bit of a crush on her).


Overall, the tone of the movie & the writing was pretty good. While the numerous Avengers references served to remind you it's a Marvel movie, it had a self contained feel to it. And it wasn't a formulaic MCU movie (too many unnecessary jokes, forgettable villain, huge third act etc). Watts mentioned in an interview that he wanted to make a good superhero about Spider-Man, and a good teen comedy about Peter Parker. And he definitely succeeds. Despite the less than stellar tone of the trailers, it definitely feels like a classic teen coming of age movie. And it was a pretty good superhero movie too, with a great villain and one of my favorite final fights in any MCU movie. The action itself was lacking (so was the CGI), but the more small scale, contained direction was definitely a winning choice by Marvel & Co.


Currently, I'd give it a 7.5-8/10, I'll probably need to see it a second time before making a final Choice on that, but I'd say it's definitely worth the money (just don't waste your time paying for 3D, isn't worth that). I'd say it's right below Iron Man as my favorite first solo MCU movie, and 5th overall MCU movie (Winter Soldier 1st 9/10, Iron Man 2nd 8.5/10 3rd GotG 8/10, 4th Civil War 8/10 for comparison)
 
To be fair, a good chunk of the cast in Spectacular who weren't white were originally white in the comics...

Changed in Spectacular Spidey:

Latino
Ox
Never thought he was supposed to be Latino in the show.

The cartoon just took the core character and slapped a coat of paint on them though... For example, look at Ned in Spec and Ned here...
Ganke, with the name Ned Leeds attached to him.
I don't know the ethnicity of that character.
 
Just got back from the screening... Anyone who's paid attention enough here knows I was one of the bigger skeptics of alot of the creative choices, but despite this I still went to see the movie with as open a mind as possible. I gotta say, I was pleasantly surprised. It wasn't the perfect Spider-Man movie like alot of the initial reviews seemed to gush it was (and I definitely didn't like some stuff), but I really enjoyed it. I'll give my full review a bit later

That's great. It's fair to still not like some of the creative choices but if they executed it well, it can still be an enjoyable movie.
 
Never thought he was supposed to be Latino in the show.

Yeah, I asked about some of the more "ambiguously brown" characters, who had voice actors of color, as they normally tended to match up.

Greg responds...
1. Yes, we were thinking Indo-European for Aaron Warren and Indian-American for Miles Warren. (The theory was that the Warren moved to the U.S. while older brother Aaron was young and before Miles was born - to explain their differing accents.) Ox is Hispanic. We never specified beyond that.
 
Assuming the character is the same age as the actress, 52 for the aunt of a 16 year old seems fine. Almost on the older side, if anything.

Indeed. The problem, fundamentally, was that the traditional portrayal of Aunt May *didn't* fit. She was just plain too old, easily enough to be Peter's great aunt ( and an unusually old and feeble one for a teenager, even then ).
 
I look at the CW fallout as something that occurred "off the books". Meaning, we the viewer know it happened, and the Avengers as we know it have disbanded (with Cap and his time being fugitives), but the general public of the MCU are completely unaware. Stark is too conscience of public perception to suddenly cut the Cap imagery out of all Avengers messaging.

No reason to believe the Avengers disbanded. Sure, the roster is way, way short right now, but just because a bunch of them are criminals doesn't mean Tony won't keep the show running.

Also, bear in mind for a lot of these issues: Tony's traditional way to handle virtually any stress or uncertainty is snarky camouflage. Even if he spends a lot of time in his office and lab, alone, hating himself and wondering whether he could ever do anything right ( and I strongly suspect he's done that, a lot, in the relevant two months )? He's not going to wear sackcloth in front of *other* people, or the public.
 
I assume Tomei's Aunt May is at least 5 years younger than the actress herself. 52 year olds dont look like that. Even with the aid of medical science.

Ms. Tomei is probably in reality an Amazonian princess (or equivalent). Or maybe Aphrodite herself.
 
Mjölnir;35435867 said:
If you think Peter Parker being white is as integral to the character as T'Challa being black I dare say you don't get one, or either, of those characters.

Indeed. Mind, I think. . . okay, is it integral to Peter Parker that he be white. No. . . but with an important asterisk: changing his race is risky. Core to Peter's character is that he has buzzard luck, and the world tends to hate him and punish his mistakes really badly. Make him a black or hispanic kid, and you run a very high chance of accidentally having this come off as societal racism instead, which guts the character.

On this matter, I tend to rate characters on a scale of 0-5. A 5 is "This character must be the race they are, changing it renders them incomprehensible" ( like say, T'Challa ). A 1 is "This character's race is utterly unimportant to their story and personality, feel free to change as desired" ( like say, Iceman ). A 0 is for the odd special case of "This character by all right *should* have been a different race in the first place, please change them".

Using this system, I rate Peter Parker a 3, for the reason above. . . but I'd rate Spider-man more broadly a 2. Spider-man's core theme of power, responsibility, and coming of age works fine with any ethnicity, its just Peter's specific version of it that is risky.
 
well now i can say feel lived up to my skeptism and fears.really wish harry hadn't been banned because i would like to see his oporion.

this film makes me appeacate spider-man 3 more.
 
I figured I'd be better off posting this here so...

I think Tom has a chance to become the definitive Peter Parker and Spider-Man, but I can't help to think otherwise when it comes to his supporting cast and villains.

I still don't really know who anyone in the supporting cast is with Ganke, "Michelle" and Gwen Brant"

Plus with Sony doing those silly villain spin-offs and no Osborn's or Goblins for a while...

It'd be hard for me to say he'll give us the definitive take without a somewhat comic accurate supporting cast.
 
So apparently the great responsibility line was originally gonna be in the script as part of a joke?

Its not a big deal for me but am sure that idea wouldn't have pleased many
 
I wasn't pleased with Stark being the voice that Peter hears during the ASM #33 homage scene. That really should have been Ben, but of course that would've been kinda weird since Ben was never established in the MCU...
 
I wasn't pleased with Stark being the voice that Peter hears during the ASM #33 homage scene. That really should have been Ben, but of course that would've been kinda weird since Ben was never established in the MCU...

Yeah I didn't like that either, strong moment overall but Ben should have been established and it should have been his voice.
 
I wasn't pleased with Stark being the voice that Peter hears during the ASM #33 homage scene. That really should have been Ben, but of course that would've been kinda weird since Ben was never established in the MCU...


That was just awful tbh
 
I assume Tomei's Aunt May is at least 5 years younger than the actress herself. 52 year olds dont look like that. Even with the aid of medical science.

Ms. Tomei is probably in reality an Amazonian princess (or equivalent). Or maybe Aphrodite herself.

As a 50 year old I can honestly say I know plenty of ladies and men who look at least that good in their 50's and in some cases, even older (I'm taking nothing away from her, I'm just saying). Not really that uncommon to age well, especially nowadays.
 
I wasn't pleased with Stark being the voice that Peter hears during the ASM #33 homage scene. That really should have been Ben, but of course that would've been kinda weird since Ben was never established in the MCU...
Completely agree. It's a good moment, but it would've been even better with an Uncle Ben voice instead.
 

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