Superman Returns The Spiritual Side of Superman

[SamuraiSon6]

I searched and didn't find a thread on this already, but if there is, feel free to merge or close....

I just wanted to say that I saw Superman Returns once in the theaters and it was a fun movie. It wasnt the best but it want the worst (by far). Ive always related more to Spider-Man more, personally. I honestly didnt read too many Superman comics when I was younger, but my growing interest in the Smallville TV series has recently spurred my interest in the Man of Steel more. The symbolic connections between Superman and Jesus Christ have always been apparent, but after reading the interview with Singer (found on the SHH! homepage), I have a new found respect for the movie and even Superman in general. I always related to Spider-Man because he had everyday teenager problems like we all have growing up, while being a superhero. In my opinion, it has always been the flaws of superheroes that most people relate to. Superman doesn't really have any, making it difficult for me to understand him. (I suppose that is why I seem to like Smallville so much). But this recent interview has me now looking at Superman in a whole new light. With my passion and longing to know Christ himself I have now found a connection to Superman himself. I personally belive that epics such as Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and The Chronicles of Narnia have always touched me because they create ways for me to relate a story 'similar' to that of my Christ's.

Manyof you fans who are more 'hardcore' Superman fans than myself may already see these connections and love Superman for these reasons, I myself am just entering into the world of relating to Superman and I am starting to enjoy it....

 

[Lighthouse]

I personally could deal with a bit more subtle Christ parallels than the ones in SR, but thats just me.

 

[SamuraiSon6]

oh that is certainly understandable, i know MANY people on these boards believe it was too obvious and in your face. i understand that everyone doesn't want that in their 'entertainment'. the christian allegories(sp?) simply give me a personal connection to Superman that I never felt before.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

Thing is, it's nigh impossible to make the parallels real subtle, because a great number of the population, including yours truly, equate savior with Jesus Christ. Besides, it was pretty noticeable in Donner's film as well (Jor-El sending his only son to save humanity), and Singer was pretty much going from that end of the spectrum from the get go.

Personally, the only really unsubtle things were A) the heavens literally separating as Superman comes in to lift the continent and B) his crucifixion pose. And I liked both of those images a hell of a lot. Gives me more appreciation for the film artform when you can critique and notice images like that.

I didn't catch the spear of destiny, scourging and Lex=Lucifer (both being depicted as bald...how did I not catch it?) my first few viewings. But I'm glad Singer mentioned them in the interview. It just makes the movie deeper and more fun to analyze, at least for me.

 

[SamuraiSon6]

Thing is, it's nigh impossible to make the parallels real subtle, because a great number of the population, including yours truly, equate savior with Jesus Christ. Besides, it was pretty noticeable in Donner's film as well (Jor-El sending his only son to save humanity), and Singer was pretty much going from that end of the spectrum from the get go.

Personally, the only really unsubtle things were A) the heavens literally separating as Superman comes in to lift the continent and B) his crucifixion pose. And I liked both of those images a hell of a lot. Gives me more appreciation for the film artform when you can critique and notice images like that.

I didn't catch the spear of destiny, scourging and Lex=Lucifer (both being depicted as bald...how did I not catch it?) my first few viewings. But I'm glad Singer mentioned them in the interview. It just makes the movie deeper and more fun to analyze, at least for me.

that is exactly how i feel....t:

 

[Lighthouse]

I'm not saying I don't see them, or even don't like them. I like aspects of them, but I think Singer really laid it on thick, and I think Donner was subtle enough that it didn't feel that way. Donner gave it to us in quiet moments of Jor-El talking to his son, and the epicness of him finding his destiny with the Fortress of Solitude. Singer went all out with, what I felt was, overly dramatic imagery. The kryptonite "spear of destiny", Routh's arms outstrechted like a cross, floating in the sky over the Earth. Some of it is pretty, but it also becomes pretentious and overly serious. I'd rather have Reeve's smiling superhero than Routh's ultra-serious savior of the human race.

 

[Armand Z Trip]

Lots of good mythological and spiritual stuff in Superman Returns. Has some contrasts with the Matrix trilogy. I can't remember if it was JJ Abrams, or someone else along the line of getting a new Superman movie on screens, who said that Neo was a new Superman. Neo is the christ figure, but represents a more gnostic and less redemption form of christianity. I heard a theory of the rave scene in Reloaded, this is their temple, their ritual, it is very sexual and very open. What Neo and Trinity are doing is private, secret, Neo has elevated this body above all others. If he is the saviour of the human race he pretty much sucks at it. When the Architect gives Neo the choice of Zion or Trinity, Neo chooses Trinity.

When Superman flies over the ocean to rescue Lois and Jason, he sees the pulse of New Krypton headed towards Metropolis, he has a choice. He chooses Metropolis, the many over the few. This is his elevation to God from man. The jedi pushing away from attachment. No more Last Tempation of Christ wondering about settling down with a family. However, it was only a threat to Lois that made Superman return to the world, before that Clark Kent had just returned to work.

Neo is resurrected from death in the first Matrix by Trinity's love. Superman is resurrected in Returns by the sun. As if God, the gods, the celestial masters, the sub atomic particles of the universe are saying, this guy ain't goin' anywhere. Lex saying he is Prometheus stealing fire from the gods to give to man is ********. He is the devil stealing Gods power to make his own world, he is punished by exile. I thought Superman had too many Atlas lifting the world references, however Superman is christlike in that he is rescue, salvation, not violence.

I think the spritual message of SR is like Don Quixote, if you want to be a knight, be a knight. Be christlike, be Superman. Rather than cry out against the instant gratification, 24 hour cable news, camera phone, information age, be of it and rise above it. Do not give in to cynicism and fatalism. Inspire. Care. Believe.

 

[ervann]

I really don't care much about what Singer said there. Like I've said before, it's more than what it really is, which is an obession with Donner's movie and wanting to find meaning in it that will make his own movie (SR) stand out.

When he really should be looking at the comics to find out what Superman means.

 

[The Kid]

I have to agree with the Lighthouse. Some subtlety would have been pretty nice. I don't want to assume it's a case of typical hollywood bashing the audience over the head with something because they think we're stupid, but that's just what it seemed like.

Reading the comic for inspiration? Yes that might have been cool too.

 

[buggs0268]

Movie should have been called "The Passions of the Superman" with it so in your face.

 

[The Kid]

I remember when pics from the movie came out of superman in martha's arms like the jesus in mary's arms and some people here were saying it was mere coincidence that the two were similar.

I guess they have nothing to say now.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I have to agree with the thread starter that the spiritual side of SR definately elevated the movie to a higher level for me. It also made me appreciate the character of Superman a whole lot more and thats despite not being a big believer in Christ (though i am a christian).

I was never really a fan of Superman before SR, but now i am really considering getting into the comics for first time ever.

The Jor-El voice-overs were just superbly placed in the movie also IMO, and the fact that Jor-El seemed like a god talking to his son once again elevated the movie for me.

 

[The Kid]

That's the problem. It's all superficial stuff. I think it was a mistake to skew so blatantly into an exclusively Jesus Passion of the Christ symbolism because Singer miscontrued the meaning of the original line by jor-el that he quotes all the time in these interviews.

The actual writers of it say that it can signify not just christ but messiahs from several religions. They were looking at it in a more open, possibly even secular, sense than Singer and as we saw in the film, Singer's misunderstanding of not just comic superman but Donner's was to me anyway his "vision's" greatest failing. Too many bad decisions were made before this movie was put into production.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That's the problem. It's all superficial stuff. I think it was a mistake to skew so blatantly into an exclusively Jesus Passion of the Christ symbolism because Singer miscontrued the meaning of the original line by jor-el that he quotes all the time in these interviews.

The actual writers of it say that it can signify not just christ but messiahs from several religions. They were looking at it in a more open, possibly even secular, sense than Singer and as we saw in the film, Singer's misunderstanding of not just comic superman but Donner's was to me anyway his "vision's" greatest failing. Too many bad decisions were made before this movie was put into production.

Well i'll have to disagree, all of those aspects of the movie made me enjoy it more, and also elevated Superman beyond just a superhero.

 

[Maze]

Well i'll have to disagree, all of those aspects of the movie made me enjoy it more, and also elevated Superman beyond just a superhero.

Ditto.

The parralels obvious or not(and there are of course) are powerful imo (and i'm not a fan of say the passion, and i'm an atheist .. all is in the execution )

Very interesting and moving interview ( the way Singer seem possesed about his subject is really awezome )

 

[The Kid]

Well i'll have to disagree, all of those aspects of the movie made me enjoy it more, and also elevated Superman beyond just a superhero.

What is he then? What purpose is there to the symbolism beyond the surface... I'm just saying the line from jor-el in the first film was misinterpreted by the director. Even so the christ imagery was really overdone in the movie to make it almost parody.

edit: I really wish donner could have finished all the plans he had for superman. I loved when he equated the comics to the bible for superman. That really tugged away at my heart. He really knew deep down what he was doing... sigh...

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

What is he then? What purpose is there to the symbolism beyond the surface... I'm just saying the line from jor-el in the first film was misinterpreted by the director. Even so the christ imagery was really overdone in the movie to make it almost parody.

He is a saviour and an example to the world ('the light to show the way') and the planets protector. By traversing the globe instead of just the US he is also elevated beyond any other superhero IMO. Spiderman may be the protector and guardian of New York, but Superman fulfills that role for the world, and we are meant to follow his example, not depend on him.

 

[Maze]

He is a saviour and an example to the world ('the light to show the way') and the planets protector. By traversing the globe instead of just the US he is also elevated beyond any other superhero IMO. Spiderman may be the protector and guardian of New York, but Superman fulfills that role for the world, and we are meant to follow his example, not depend on him.

You have nailed it Ave .

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You have nailed it Ave .

Why thank you Maze, i'll be here all week

 

[Armand Z Trip]

That's the problem. It's all superficial stuff. I think it was a mistake to skew so blatantly into an exclusively Jesus Passion of the Christ symbolism because Singer miscontrued the meaning of the original line by jor-el that he quotes all the time in these interviews.

The actual writers of it say that it can signify not just christ but messiahs from several religions. They were looking at it in a more open, possibly even secular, sense than Singer and as we saw in the film, Singer's misunderstanding of not just comic superman but Donner's was to me anyway his "vision's" greatest failing. Too many bad decisions were made before this movie was put into production.

How is the life of Christ superficial? Do you imagine Jesus with a blackberry and a martinin talking about foreign sales of the bible? This was not just Jesus's life, but Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey. SR is not The Passion of the Christ, Superman is not beaten to death for three hours, the devil is not a woman, no religious group is complicit in Supoerman's fall. There are as you said lots of other saviour and hero parralels that can be made, I made some earlier. You did not like the vision, cool.

 

[Maze]

Lots of good mythological and spiritual stuff in Superman Returns. Has some contrasts with the Matrix trilogy. I can't remember if it was JJ Abrams, or someone else along the line of getting a new Superman movie on screens, who said that Neo was a new Superman. Neo is the christ figure, but represents a more gnostic and less redemption form of christianity. I heard a theory of the rave scene in Reloaded, this is their temple, their ritual, it is very sexual and very open. What Neo and Trinity are doing is private, secret, Neo has elevated this body above all others. If he is the saviour of the human race he pretty much sucks at it. When the Architect gives Neo the choice of Zion or Trinity, Neo chooses Trinity.

When Superman flies over the ocean to rescue Lois and Jason, he sees the pulse of New Krypton headed towards Metropolis, he has a choice. He chooses Metropolis, the many over the few. This is his elevation to God from man. The jedi pushing away from attachment. No more Last Tempation of Christ wondering about settling down with a family. However, it was only a threat to Lois that made Superman return to the world, before that Clark Kent had just returned to work.

Neo is resurrected from death in the first Matrix by Trinity's love. Superman is resurrected in Returns by the sun. As if God, the gods, the celestial masters, the sub atomic particles of the universe are saying, this guy ain't goin' anywhere. Lex saying he is Prometheus stealing fire from the gods to give to man is ********. He is the devil stealing Gods power to make his own world, he is punished by exile. I thought Superman had too many Atlas lifting the world references, however Superman is christlike in that he is rescue, salvation, not violence.

I think the spritual message of SR is like Don Quixote, if you want to be a knight, be a knight. Be christlike, be Superman. Rather than cry out against the instant gratification, 24 hour cable news, camera phone, information age, be of it and rise above it. Do not give in to cynicism and fatalism. Inspire. Care. Believe.

I wouldn't have said it better.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

How is the life of Christ superficial? Do you imagine Jesus with a blackberry and a martinin talking about foreign sales of the bible? This was not just Jesus's life, but Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey. SR is not The Passion of the Christ, Superman is not beaten to death for three hours, the devil is not a woman, no religious group is complicit in Supoerman's fall. There are as you said lots of other saviour and hero parralels that can be made, I made some earlier. You did not like the vision, cool.

Exactly. In SR there are parallels to the story of Christ, but nothing is copied exactly from one to the other.

 

[The Kid]

He is a saviour and an example to the world ('the light to show the way') and the planets protector. By traversing the globe instead of just the US he is also elevated beyond any other superhero IMO. Spiderman may be the protector and guardian of New York, but Superman fulfills that role for the world, and we are meant to follow his example, not depend on him.

So err... he's a superhero.

What I'm saying, but I guess isn't getting through, is that the jesus comparisons were taken too far. There came a point when I was thinking "I get it, dude."

"We're going to tell the story. If we're going to tell this story, some parts are going to be subtle. But this one is not."- Singer

Why...

All I'm saying is that I'd have liked it to be less obvious. I think he should have stuck to Superman, just tell his story. Alluding to jesus every chance you get distracts from that. All these refs to stuff, past movies etc. distract from the story and seem clumbsily too self aware.

A lot of them were not subtle either.

 

[The Kid]

How is the life of Christ superficial?

No, not that. The constant referrences to Jesus in the movie. Do you imagine Jesus with a blackberry and a martinin talking about foreign sales of the bible?

This was not just Jesus's life, but Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey.

I don't think I said it wasn't. SR is not The Passion of the Christ, Superman is not beaten to death for three hours, the devil is not a woman, no religious group is complicit in Supoerman's fall. There are as you said lots of other saviour and hero parralels that can be made, I made some earlier. You did not like the vision, cool.

Cool.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So err... he's a superhero.

What I'm saying, but I guess isn't getting through, is that the jesus comparisons were taken too far. There came a point when I was thinking "I get it, dude."

"We're going to tell the story. If we're going to tell this story, some parts are going to be subtle. But this one is not."- Singer

Why...

All I'm saying is that I'd have liked it to be less obvious. I think he should have stuck to Superman, just tell his story. Alluding to jesus every chance you get distracts from that. All these refs to stuff, past movies etc. distract from the story and seem clumbsily too self aware.

A lot of them were not subtle either.

Well no, i'm saying that the Christ references elevate Superman from just an average Superhero. A Superhero is basically what he is, but if you look deeper, he is also much more in SR, i liked that fact and thought it added weight to a lot of the scene's in the movie.

Oh and i get what you saying, but as i said earlier, i disagree with it. No, some the references were not subtle but i honestly didnt have a problem with it, and i enjoyed spotting them in the movie