The Superhero Cinematic Civil War of Tomorrow Thread - Part 62

[DarthSkywalker]

They're just so transparently focused on giving people what they think they want instead of focusing on their characters and story, it's downright infuriating to me.

And they'd rather do that than pay the Netflix creative team what they're worth to come back.

It's one of the most unnatural continuations I've ever seen. It wants the nostalgia, while dumping everything, and I mean everything, that was setup because, *check notes*, well actually I couldn't find a reason.

They didn't even need to pay the Netflix creative team. It was always changing. They just wanted something different because they thought they could do it "better" with the jangling keys of ugly ass "comic book visuals".

You mentioned the importance of the normies. That is why Nelson, Murdock, & Page was the cliffhanger. Why Matt drove it home with Fisk that he'll never see Vanessa again. It's such a fundamental lack of understanding of the single best thing to ever happen to the MCU and I actually hate it. Costumes can never replace character.

 

[Man in the Suit]

They're just so transparently focused on giving people what they think they want instead of focusing on their characters and story, it's downright infuriating to me.

And they'd rather do that than pay the Netflix creative team what they're worth to come back.

Showrunner Erik Oleson and his writers room already had the story for Season 4. I hate Feige/Disney.

 

[Snow Queen]

Season 3 is so peak. One of the best superhero adaptations on its own.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I just wish we had the same energy and lively discussions for Ironheart. It told an engaging story, Mephisto, had more viewership than Born Again and deserves more time to grow, but, black leads.

 

[Snow Queen]

I just wish we had the same energy and lively discussions for Ironheart. It told an engaging story, Mephisto, had more viewership than Born Again and deserves more time to grow, but, black leads.

Mephisto in a Disney+ show. Sure, sure. Heard that one before.

 

[flickchick85]

I just wish we had the same energy and lively discussions for Ironheart. It told an engaging story, Mephisto, had more viewership than Born Again and deserves more time to grow, but, black leads.

It prominently featured the Worst Hamilton Castmember, launched on the back of the awful Wakanda Forever, and it also came out at a time when Disney+ Marvel's stock was....wherever's below the gutter. That's too many deterrents for me. And frankly, I was tricked by people online into giving Born Again and Agatha a shot, and both times were mistakes. It's gonna take some much better buzz than "hey it was actually alright" to ever trick me into wasting time on any of those shows again.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I just wish we had the same energy and lively discussions for Ironheart. It told an engaging story, Mephisto, had more viewership than Born Again and deserves more time to grow, but, black leads.

I wish I cared about Iron Heart. But Ryan ruined that part of the MCU for me when he decided to crown the anti-vax bigot. At least Feige disappeared Wasp like she's Terrance Howard and his new math.

 

[flickchick85]

like she's Terrance Howard and his new math.

Actually cackled.

 

[Snow Queen]

To willingly watch another MCU Disney+ show by choice, I'd need a hell of an incentive at this point. It's been rough sailing for too long. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me like eight times, I guess that's still on me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

To willingly watch another MCU Disney+ show by choice, I'd need a hell of an incentive at this point. It's been rough sailing for too long. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me like eight times, I guess that's still on me.

AKA one of Snow's Marvel crushes actually getting screentime again.

 

[Snow Queen]

Remember when they managed to make Samuel L Jackson look dull? ****ing criminal.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Remember when they managed to make Samuel L Jackson look dull? ****ing criminal.

As one who championed a lot of the early shows, and still loves Loki and She-Hulk, I think it was Secret Invasion that truly broke me. Like I skipped Ms. Marvel after the second episode did nothing for me. But Secret Invasion had Emilia Clarke so I had to watch as they ruined everything that made Captain Marvel a swell time.

 

[Sithborg]

Peacemaker may have some tonal stuff I don't care for, but Gunn CLEARLY cares more about those characters than the Born Again showrunners do about theirs, that much is very very obvious, imo.

And just like with Batwoman, I don't give credit to showrunners for paying lip service to current issues and then handling them in the safest way imaginable to avoid ruffling anybody's feathers, which is what Born Again did imo. Don't bother, if you're gonna do that.

And now I miss Cloak and Dagger again. I need to rewatch it. Fun fact, just like JJ, it also has a power ranger actor on it. They would be going to town over the past years.

And that is my biggest issue with Ms Marvel. Literally the whole series, complaints about how the cops treat muslims. Then in the finale, bam. "not all cops".

 

[Spider-Fan]

I didn't like how Ms Marvel was formatted. That was my biggest issue. It felt like 2 seasons mashed together. You had the Jersey season and then the travel abroad and visit grandma detour that was like another show, and then it got back to the main plot.

What is even more odd to me is that the show had an easy format staring itself in the face: The Brother's wedding. Why on Earth wasn't the show more slow burn of Ms Marvel being corrupted by the Clandestine as mentors and then they turn out to be evil and the finale culminates at the wedding. Why was that instead like the 2nd or 3rd episode and rushed so we could get to a detour that should have happened in a 2nd season?

It doesn't make sense to me at all

 

[BoredGuy]

As one who championed a lot of the early shows, and still loves Loki and She-Hulk, I think it was Secret Invasion that truly broke me. Like I skipped Ms. Marvel after the second episode did nothing for me. But Secret Invasion had Emilia Clarke so I had to watch as they ruined everything that made Captain Marvel a swell time.

Yeah I'd still put Loki, Hawkeye, and Wandavision (minus the finale) up there against the best Netflix had to offer

My order is probably: DD S1, Jess Jones S1, Loki S1 & 2, Hawkeye, Wandavision, DD S2 &3, then everything else

But Secret Invasion was a major misstep

That said, I still enjoyed Iron Heart, not gonna hold Letitia's views against Dominique's show
And Agatha was great, its now an annual October rewatch in my house, haters gon hate

And I just hope DD Reborn S2 steps up its game, and I think it will, now that it will be one vision and not reworked mid-production

 

[Babillygunn]

Please don’t put me on ignore:

But do we reeeeeeeeeeaaaaallly need Karen and Foggy? I can take or leave Frank, but if you give me Elektra, The Hand, Mary and Fisk, I’m happy.

I’ll take it a step further. I’d rather have Elektra than Karen any day of the week and twice on weekends.

And Netflix Foggy was a wet blanket.

 

[Ninjablade]

Ditch the civilian characters in superhero stories, and you might as well throw out the entire genre, because you've lost the whole point of it.

This is half the reason a lot of modern Spider-Man stuff blows. Everyone wants to completely ignore the personal connections that only Peter Parker has. There's too much blending of the lives and doing that is a surefire way to make things incredibly uninteresting. These characters need to be regular people too.

 

[Drizzle]

Please don’t put me on ignore:

But do we reeeeeeeeeeaaaaallly need Karen and Foggy? I can take or leave Frank, but if you give me Elektra, The Hand, Mary and Fisk, I’m happy.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I’ll take it a step further. I’d rather have Elektra than Karen any day of the week and twice on weekends.

And Netflix Foggy was a wet blanket.

You always get it.

Et tu Brute?

 

[Lily Adler]

AKA one of Snow's Marvel crushes actually getting screentime again.

Kate Bishop has been forgotten along with Jen.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I am not a huge fan of the superheroes as the supporting characters model. In a team book like Justice League or Avengers, sure. But for a solo series or movie, you need that supporting cast. Hal Jordan isn't a replacement for Jimmy Olson. It's a trend I don't love, and sadly it seems that's the norm now.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I am not a huge fan of the superheroes as the supporting characters model. In a team book like Justice League or Avengers, sure. But for a solo series or movie, you need that supporting cast. Hal Jordan isn't a replacement for Jimmy Olson. It's a trend I don't love, and sadly it seems that's the norm now.

But then why compare Elektra to Karen? The served different functions on Daredevil.

 

[Spider-Fan]

But then why compare Elektra to Karen? The served different functions on Daredevil.

Slightly confused by the reply. Are you saying Hal serves a different function than Jimmy? In theory yes, but the issue is every character in these franchises is becoming a superhero. So sure, Hal serves a different function. But Jimmy is just being replaced entirely by the various heroes now being more prominent in the book. Daredevil is a bad example here cause both are serving the narrative and still had major functions in the show. My point is as time has gone in, the non powered support characters are not being given functions within the narrative anymore. They have lost the plot in that regard

There is also the specialness factor. If every book is a team up book like a JL or Avengers, then what makes JL or Avengers special?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Slightly confused by the reply. Are you saying Hal serves a different function than Jimmy? In theory yes, but the issue is every character in these franchises is becoming a superhero. So sure, Hal serves a different function. But Jimmy is just being replaced entirely by the various heroes now being more prominent in the book. Daredevil is a bad example here cause both are serving the narrative and still had major functions in the show. My point is as time has gone in, the non powered support characters are not being given functions within the narrative anymore. They have lost the plot in that regard

There is also the specialness factor. If every book is a team up book like a JL or Avengers, then what makes JL or Avengers special?

I think I might be mixing you up with Shaw. Someone compared Elektra directly to Karen and it went directly against this point. Sorry, the entire MCU Defense Force all looks the same.

 

[Drizzle]

Et tu Brute?

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I missed Karen and Foggy too much in Born Again. Not every civilian supporting character in Marvel is essential but I think they brought something worthwhile to the DD show.

Kate Bishop has been forgotten along with Jen.

The animated stuff like What If? and Zombies have been pushing Kate a bit but I'm just now realizing that She-Hulk hasn't even been mentioned in those shows at all which is a little concerning because they've even brought back some of the Eternals.