The Superhero Cinematic Civil War: The SUMC Was In The Amazon With My Mom Studying Spiders Right Before It Died - Part 61

[flickchick85]

Marvel is about to have their biggest year ever.

We’ll see.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The Avengers is going to be huge. But the health of the solo MCU movies outside the likes of Spider-Man are very much not in a good place. So while Avengers will make billions, the others are not the reliable 700mil WW floor anymore. That is all a result of Marvel not building new stars effectively

 

[DarthSkywalker]

We’ll see.

Any doubt should've died with Deadpool vs. Wolverine, Inside Out 2, and Moana 2. Even my beloved Beetlejuice brought out the freaks and beat Dune domestically.

The Avengers and all the Spider-Men are coming back. Those two movies alone might out gross whatever the DCU ends up being in total.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The Avengers is going to be huge. But the health of the solo MCU movies outside the likes of Spider-Man are very much not in a good place. So while Avengers will make billions, the others are not the reliable 700mil WW floor anymore. That is all a result of Marvel not building new stars effectively

They built their stars effectively. They stopped building others, by spreading everything thin. Which is why we're moving backwards and will continue to, until they find a new star. This is what they're trying to do with the FF. Why they're telling us they're going to be a big part of Doomsday. With the Avengers, Deadpool, and Spider-Man.

I laugh in irony every time Reynolds says we're not getting another Deadpool movie.

 

[flickchick85]

Any doubt should've died with Deadpool vs. Wolverine, Inside Out 2, and Moana 2. Even my beloved Beetlejuice brought out the freaks and beat Dune domestically.

The Avengers and all the Spider-Men are coming back. Those two movies alone might out gross whatever the DCU ends up being in total.

We’ll see, is all I said.

People said Joker 2 was a guaranteed billion and Deadpool 3 would be by far the biggest box office success of the year. Neither came true. And your beloved Beetlejuice just got its butt kicked by Wicked which wasn’t even ON that Fandango poll a year ago. And the once infallible MCU had 2 bombs in recent memory. You can only milk nostalgia for so long before it too becomes tired. My point was the box office is unpredictable these days. That’s all.

 

[Spider-Fan]

They built their stars effectively. They stopped building others, by spreading everything thin. Which is why we're moving backwards and will continue to, until they find a new star. This is what they're trying to do with the FF. Why they're telling us they're going to be a big part of Doomsday. With the Avengers, Deadpool, and Spider-Man.

I laugh in irony every time Reynolds says we're not getting another Deadpool movie.

That's what I mean, they haven't built NEW Stars. Cap, Iron Man, Spider-Man, etc. All them were done masterfully. But Phase 4 and beyond, they haven't properly built anyone successfully like that. And I attribute this to not being focused. Marvel got spread too thin and floundered in Phase 4. Most of the new characters like Shang-Chi and co haven't been seen again. Only like Yelena and Kamala have really been. Marvel needed another team-up movie to end Phase 4 to keep these characters in the audience's eyeballs and to give this new era some focus. Because they botched that so badly, we are getting this abomination they call Doomsday.

I am hoping the FF at least make a strong comeback. Even though that franchise will always have a Doom sized hole in it for me now.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's what I mean, they haven't built NEW Stars. Cap, Iron Man, Spider-Man, etc. All them were done masterfully. But Phase 4 and beyond, they haven't properly built anyone successfully like that. And I attribute this to not being focused. Marvel got spread too thin and floundered in Phase 4. Most of the new characters like Shang-Chi and co haven't been seen again. Only like Yelena and Kamala have really been. Marvel needed another team-up movie to end Phase 4 to keep these characters in the audience's eyeballs and to give this new era some focus. Because they botched that so badly, we are getting this abomination they call Doomsday.

I am hoping the FF at least make a strong comeback. Even though that franchise will always have a Doom sized hole in it for me now.

Yes. But my point is, all that means is we're going to keep getting the old stuff. Because they screwed up, we're stuck. If the FF and X-Men fails, we're just going to keep going back. That is the lesson that will be learned.

 

[kguillou]

That's what I mean, they haven't built NEW Stars. Cap, Iron Man, Spider-Man, etc. All them were done masterfully. But Phase 4 and beyond, they haven't properly built anyone successfully like that. And I attribute this to not being focused. Marvel got spread too thin and floundered in Phase 4. Most of the new characters like Shang-Chi and co haven't been seen again. Only like Yelena and Kamala have really been. Marvel needed another team-up movie to end Phase 4 to keep these characters in the audience's eyeballs and to give this new era some focus. Because they botched that so badly, we are getting this abomination they call Doomsday.

I am hoping the FF at least make a strong comeback. Even though that franchise will always have a Doom sized hole in it for me now.

This is why i said Marvel’s starting to crumble under their own cinematic universe. By no means are they in danger or anything but phase 4 and 5 and all these new characters and Disney + shows just have not been landing besides a few exceptions.

We’re going to go into Doomsday with little to no build up to it. Maybe Fantastic Four sets it up, i dunno. But Doomsday is going to going to have to do a lot of its one heavy lifting storywise to bring this multiverse storyline to a head.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

We’ll see, is all I said.

People said Joker 2 was a guaranteed billion and Deadpool 3 would be by far the biggest box office success of the year. Neither came true. And your beloved Beetlejuice just got its butt kicked by Wicked which wasn’t even ON that Fandango poll a year ago. And the once infallible MCU had 2 bombs in recent memory. You can only milk nostalgia for so long before it too becomes tired. My point was the box office is unpredictable these days. That’s all.

Deadpool is about to lose out to Inside Out 2 and Moana 2.

One, Wicked is also my beloved. Two, Wicked proves my point.

The MCU bombs are why time is a flat circle.

 

[Spider-Fan]

This is why i said Marvel’s starting to crumble under their own cinematic universe. By no means are they in danger or anything but phase 4 and 5 and all these new characters and Disney + shows just have not been landing besides a few exceptions.

We’re going to go into Doomsday with little to no build up to it. Maybe Fantastic Four sets it up, i dunno. But Doomsday is going to going to have to do a lot of its one heavy lifting storywise to bring this multiverse storyline to a head.

Fantastic Four is going to set it up partially, I am sure. Probably the Council of Reeds or whoever will be warning us of Doom and Multiverse dying stuff that will set the stage for Doomsday. But, that is short notice, lol! I mean yeah we didn't see Thanos much in the IS before IW, but the magic rocks really did a good job making people feel like the story was moving forward

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Fantastic Four is going to set it up partially, I am sure. Probably the Council of Reeds or whoever will be warning us of Doom and Multiverse dying stuff that will set the stage for Doomsday. But, that is short notice, lol! I mean yeah we didn't see Thanos much in the IS before IW, but the magic rocks really did a good job making people feel like the story was moving forward

Do we know what the Feb 2026 movie is? Can't wait for their token black character that isn't Blade to have their post-scene make no damn sense try to do the heavy lifting of what should've been 5 movies.

 

[Sithborg]

I mean, I do think that Doomsday can do 2 billion. I'm just not sure that is what Feige and Iger want, with the insane amount of money they are spending.

 

[Snow Queen]

What do you mean Phase 5 now ends with Thunderbolts? What the hell is a phase even at this point? It's all been one phase post-Endgame, let's be real, Marvel.

 

[flickchick85]

Deadpool is about to lose out to Inside Out 2 and Moana 2.

One, Wicked is also my beloved. Two, Wicked proves my point.

The MCU bombs are why time is a flat circle.

Wicked the show is your beloved, not Wicked the movie (which is much better than Beetlejuice Beetlejuice regardless). Also it’s just Inside Out 2 that’s beating Deadpool, not Moana. Which I don’t see as a problem because that’s an actual movie. But I don’t even know what your point is anymore tbh.

Mine is, audiences get sick of everything they get too much of. That’s a proven fact. The MCU’s schtick ain’t immune. The cracks have already started emerging, and while they can cling to the life raft of nostalgia for another couple years, it too will eventually sink until they find some new creative juice. Which they won’t do until forced.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean, I do think that Doomsday can do 2 billion. I'm just not sure that is what Feige and Iger want, with the insane amount of money they are spending.

I think Doomsday is there to do 2bil, with the idea of getting to 3bil with Secret Wars, where we see proper Tony, Cap, etc. They won't have to sell nearly as many tickets to get there, and considering we're about to be in the middle of a trade war, it might be even less then we think now.

Just looked it up, and they junked everything but FF, A5, Spidey, and A6. The amount of money Disney is going to make from Dec 2025 through Nov 2027 is going to be obscene.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Do we know what the Feb 2026 movie is? Can't wait for their token black character that isn't Blade to have their post-scene make no damn sense try to do the heavy lifting of what should've been 5 movies.

No, but I would bet on Doctor Strange 3 personally

 

[flickchick85]

No, but I would bet on Doctor Strange 3 personally

Either that or Black Panther 3 with Denzel.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Oh man, Gunn probably can’t wait fast enough to respond to this one

 

[flickchick85]

Does she not know Reeves just produced Caped Crusader?

 

[emielaen]

Why can't Reeves produce something that isn't in his universe?

 

[Zarex]

The problem with a cinematic universe is that it inevitably clashes with part of the appeal of superhero movies: a lack of continuity. People act like getting into comics is a math assignment (and with the number of brand new #1 relaunches Marvel does every week, might as well be), but a movie gets to touch on the stuff they like without needing to do any work. Until it doesn't. We'll see how the seemingly looser model here fares. I definitely prefer it in theory.

I would say that the introduction of continuity across super hero franchises was a major reason why the MCU took off, despite not having full control of its A Listers. Having a character from one series crossover into another whether it be in movies or TV is usually a delight.

I agree that a looser continuity may work better with DC, which has historically relied more on Elseworlds. And has historically had less connectivity among its characters, especially Pre Crisis.

But eventually Zaslav and Gunn need to release a mash up. Mash Ups Make Money. The only one that didn’t work for Feige was The Marvels, which relied too heavily on its D+ stable. If they wait too long, as the MCU has done post Endgame, they risk losing momentum for their connected universe.

 

[Snow Queen]

Oh man, Gunn probably can’t wait fast enough to respond to this one

Penguin spoilers:
The shared universe double feature of Penguin slowly strangling a kid to death and Superman saving cats from trees.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Wicked the show is your beloved, not Wicked the movie (which is much better than Beetlejuice Beetlejuice regardless). Also it’s just Inside Out 2 that’s beating Deadpool, not Moana. Which I don’t see as a problem because that’s an actual movie. But I don’t even know what your point is anymore tbh.

Mine is, audiences get sick of everything they get too much of. That’s a proven fact. The MCU’s schtick ain’t immune. The cracks have already started emerging, and while they can cling to the life raft of nostalgia for another couple years, it too will eventually sink until they find some new creative juice. Which they won’t do until forced.

Why are being weird about Wicked and Beetlejuice? I'm not even talking about quality, though I know which I'd rather watch. I never brought that up. I was talking about Beetlejuice being something people grew up with and like.

My point is nostalgia sells, especially in our current environment. The #1 reason BJ 2 and Wicked made money, is because of their history. These aren't fresh new products that sold because people were excited by new concepts. It's because it was a sequel to a movie that has grown in popularity since it's release and the most popular musical of the century, outside of maybe Hamilton.

It's the same with Inside Out 2 and Moana 2. Now, Moana 2 might not beat Deadpool (I think it will with the holidays and the natural long legs of kids movies) but if the answer to the question is what are the three biggest movies of 2024 is three sequels to beloved franchises, then that's my point. People are flocking to the familiar. The only two movies in the last 2 years in the top 10 that isn't a sequel or tied to an existing IP was Oppenheimer and a film from China .

Look at the Disney slate for the next three years. It's insanity. And I think what happened post-COVID, especially with stuff like Lightyear, that what we are inline for is a bunch of stuff that looks just like what came before. Not similar, the same. Iger know it works. Even when the movies aren't good, it works.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I would say that the introduction of continuity across super hero franchises was a major reason why the MCU took off, despite not having full control of its A Listers. Having a character from one series crossover into another whether it be in movies or TV is usually a delight.

I agree that a looser continuity may work better with DC, which has historically relied more on Elseworlds. And has historically had less connectivity among its characters, especially Pre Crisis.

But eventually Zaslav and Gunn need to release a mash up. Mash Ups Make Money. The only one that didn’t work for Feige was The Marvels, which relied too heavily on its D+ stable. If they wait too long, as the MCU has done post Endgame, they risk losing momentum for their connected universe.

The continuity is great for making money. Not so much for the creative endeavor of filmmaking.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh man, Gunn probably can’t wait fast enough to respond to this one

Can we ban GR posts? Even if it's the make fun of her?