The Superhero Cinematic Civil War: The SUMC Was In The Amazon With My Mom Studying Spiders Right Before It Died - Part 61

[Iceman]

Just left for Cap 4. At least got fun plans for Sunday

 

[kguillou]

You know sometimes I think, the plan post endgame was always to….have no plan.

I wonder if Feige was just like, “lets take a break from narrative building and just invite some filmmakers to make movies about characters they want and we’ll figure out the rest later after we see what works and what doesnt.” Maybe there was an arrogance believing that they had enough cache built up to just fly by the seat of their pants for a few years and then backtrack and figure out how to make the pieces that worked fit retroactively.

 

[Iceman]

Most people don't watch every movie. Hence why every movie doesn't gross the same. They come and go to whatever interests them. Maybe follow 1 franchise and the Avengers or whatever.

True. What I mean is that interest in films like Ant Man would be lower (with the same quality) if they weren’t considered part of a much bigger family of films with a popularity peak as high as Avengers.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Still say these are the Mount Rushmore of this messy ass Multiverse Saga:

Eternals, No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness and Wakanda Forever.

All did different things and did them successfully in my True Believer eyes.

 

[Drizzle]

Well there you go lol.

Besides, seeing the real Cap and Wolverine together on the big screen? That's a huge payday for Disney.

I really thought that's what we were going to see in Deadpool & Wolverine but with the two of them messing around in the multiverse and jumping into the Battle of New York and the final battle in Endgame, etc.

 

[Link]

WAIT, it just dawned on me that the new Avengers movie is coming out next year. There's only Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four between us and a new fancy Avengers film. Huh? Unless those two movies are going to drive people into a frenzy, the only built-in excitement is the "Avengers" title. It needs to be studied how badly they've mismanaged The Multiverse Saga.

 

[The Caped Knight]

In the near future, Chris Evans will get paid an inordinate amount of money to reprise the role of Cap.

You can look forward to it.

No doubt.

 

[kguillou]

WAIT, it just dawned on me that the new Avengers movie is coming out next year. There's only Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four between us and a new fancy Avengers film. Huh? Unless those two movies are going to drive people into a frenzy, the only built-in excitement is the "Avengers" title. It needs to be studied how badly they've mismanaged The Multiverse Saga.

Thats exactly it, my friend. This Avengers movie is going to land with no build up banking on the just the fact that its an "Avengers" movie. With RDJ returning as the hook.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The lack of a buildup for an Avengers movie wouldn't be an issue if we had like an Age of Ultron scale movie. But since it's an IW/EG level event. So that is more an issue

 

[Link]

The lack of a buildup for an Avengers movie wouldn't be an issue if we had like an Age of Ultron scale movie. But since it's an IW/EG level event. So that is more an issue

The most deeply rooted issue is that people don't care about this new team of Avengers, which would exist even if this was a smaller-scale film. They could've (should've!) done a smaller Avengers film for these characters years ago, now it's too late.

Realizing that Doomsday is that close makes it even more baffling that Brave New World doesn't push anything forward. All those reshoots and countless opportunities to spark up some kind of excitement, and they did nothing... Really odd.

 

[flickchick85]

You know sometimes I think, the plan post endgame was always to….have no plan.

I wonder if Feige was just like, “lets take a break from narrative building and just invite some filmmakers to make movies about characters they want and we’ll figure out the rest later after we see what works and what doesnt.” Maybe there was an arrogance believing that they had enough cache built up to just fly by the seat of their pants for a few years and then backtrack and figure out how to make the pieces that worked fit retroactively.

What’s saddest regardless of this is, they shouldn’t NEED a plan. Once upon a time, blockbusters were made to stand on their own, to be a complete and satisfying journey that introduced characters audiences would feel fully invested in by the end of those 2+ hours, and potentially want to see more of. The “connective tissue” novelty of the MCU was supposed to be a bonus to that experience, not the sole driving appeal.

What a depressing mess the current state of the industry is that “it’s not connected enough to the other movies” is a valid analysis of why certain movies are failing.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The most deeply rooted issue is that people don't care about this new team of Avengers, which would exist even if this was a smaller-scale film. They could've (should've!) done a smaller Avengers film for these characters years ago, now it's too late.

Realizing that Doomsday is that close makes it even more baffling that Brave New World doesn't push anything forward. All those reshoots and countless opportunities to spark up some kind of excitement, and they did nothing... Really odd.

Oh, I 1000% agree, we needed some kind of New Avengers movie to end Phase 4. Not doing so was criminally stupid

 

[Venom 1988]

WAIT, it just dawned on me that the new Avengers movie is coming out next year. There's only Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four between us and a new fancy Avengers film. Huh? Unless those two movies are going to drive people into a frenzy, the only built-in excitement is the "Avengers" title. It needs to be studied how badly they've mismanaged The Multiverse Saga.

I think there's still an untitled movie slotted for February 2026 but regardless you're right. I eagerly awaiting the next behind the scenes tell all book about wtf happened to this era lol.

 

[kguillou]

What’s saddest regardless of this is, they shouldn’t NEED a plan. Once upon a time, blockbusters were made to stand on their own, to be a complete and satisfying journey that introduced characters audiences would feel fully invested in by the end of those 2+ hours, and potentially want to see more of. The “connective tissue” novelty of the MCU was supposed to be a bonus to that experience, not the sole driving appeal.

What a depressing mess the current state of the industry is that “it’s not connected enough to the other movies” is a valid analysis of why certain movies are failing.

You know, say what you will about the DCEU, but looking back on those movies, pretty much all of them were constructed to stand on their own. Man of Steel was very much its own thing that later was retrofitted to be a universe launch point. But Aquaman, Suicide Squad (both of them), Shazam, Birds of Prey, Black Adam, Blue Beetle, Wonder Woman...they all felt like their own filmmaker driven singular tales that just happened to co-exist together.

 

[Drizzle]

The lack of a buildup for an Avengers movie wouldn't be an issue if we had like an Age of Ultron scale movie. But since it's an IW/EG level event. So that is more an issue

I'm at a point where I don't even care anymore if there's been a significant amount of buildup as long as it's a good movie, which I have my doubts about since the RDJ casting announcement kind of broke my brain when it comes to the MCU.

I'm not the hardcore MCU fan I was during Phases 1-3 but I still care enough to make it a point to check out every movie in theaters (I'm still proud of that 35-movie streak since Iron Man) and tune in to all the shows when they drop on D+. Even though a good deal of their movies since Endgame have been mediocre at best, I still think Quantumania is the only truly bad movie they've put out since Phase 4 started. Still, the constant barrage of content from them between 2021 and 2022 combined with the reliance on nostalgic callbacks has left me fatigued. The fact that I'm more excited about Fantastic Four just because it's different over an Avengers movie that could potentially include every main character from a Marvel project ever kind of says it all.

 

[Moncton]

You know sometimes I think, the plan post endgame was always to….have no plan.

I wonder if Feige was just like, “lets take a break from narrative building and just invite some filmmakers to make movies about characters they want and we’ll figure out the rest later after we see what works and what doesnt.” Maybe there was an arrogance believing that they had enough cache built up to just fly by the seat of their pants for a few years and then backtrack and figure out how to make the pieces that worked fit retroactively.

I think one of the main issues was streaming, they now not only had to focus on films but the many streaming shows too and might have gotten stretched too thin. Like many properties, streaming was just seen as something where more content can be delivered, and not as something that may make your property less special due to overexposure.

 

[Sithborg]

You know sometimes I think, the plan post endgame was always to….have no plan.

I wonder if Feige was just like, “lets take a break from narrative building and just invite some filmmakers to make movies about characters they want and we’ll figure out the rest later after we see what works and what doesnt.” Maybe there was an arrogance believing that they had enough cache built up to just fly by the seat of their pants for a few years and then backtrack and figure out how to make the pieces that worked fit retroactively.

I mean, Feige was taking a step back. He wasn't as focused on the MCU. Anyone remember the Star Wars movie he was developing? I honestly think he was taking the success of Endgame and trying to make moves for the big chair, to oversee all of Disney's movies. And then things went to ****, and he used Victoria Alonso as the fallguy. (You know, starting to see a trend of Feige blaming women for failures....)

What’s saddest regardless of this is, they shouldn’t NEED a plan. Once upon a time, blockbusters were made to stand on their own, to be a complete and satisfying journey that introduced characters audiences would feel fully invested in by the end of those 2+ hours, and potentially want to see more of. The “connective tissue” novelty of the MCU was supposed to be a bonus to that experience, not the sole driving appeal.

What a depressing mess the current state of the industry is that “it’s not connected enough to the other movies” is a valid analysis of why certain movies are failing.

I also think people over estimate how connected the first phases were. But Marvel saw that, and tripled down on making things required viewing.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Nick Fury was recruiting the Avengers in Phase 1, that’s what you needed to know. Then the Infinity Stones storyline started to take off. I can’t tell you what unites Phase 4 and 5 besides ‘multiverse exists for legacy characters/actors to appear for big money’. It’s been more of a marketing gimmick than anything else.

 

[Drizzle]

I also think people over estimate how connected the first phases were. But Marvel saw that, and tripled down on making things required viewing.

This is especially true with Phase 1. Among people I knew outside the Internet, I felt like I was in the minority having seen all of the MCU movies leading up to The Avengers at the time. Pretty much everyone had seen and was familiar with Iron Man but Thor and Captain America were a little more under the radar by comparison back then. But to its credit, The Avengers is still an enjoyable watch even without having seen any of the previous films leading up to it (even though it helps).

 

[Spider-Fan]

This is especially true with Phase 1. Among people I knew outside the Internet, I felt like I was in the minority having seen all of the MCU movies leading up to The Avengers at the time. Pretty much everyone had seen and was familiar with Iron Man but Thor and Captain America were a little more under the radar by comparison back then. But to its credit, The Avengers is still an enjoyable watch even without having seen any of the previous films leading up to it (even though it helps).

Each movie should ideally be able to be entertaining on its own merits. Any movie can be someone's entry point to the MCU, so there is a fine line between keeping things connected enough, but not to where someone new or more casual feels lost. Early MCU I think did this better than current MCU.

 

[Chris B]

I've thought a big problem with the Multiverse Saga is that they tried to condense it down to last only a few years when compared to the Infinity Saga running for 11. A longer saga would've allowed more breathing room for things like a smaller-scale Avengers film or Shang-Chi getting in a sequel before Secret Wars.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I've thought a big problem with the Multiverse Saga is that they tried to condense it down to last only a few years when compared to the Infinity Saga running for 11. A longer saga would've allowed more breathing room for things like a smaller-scale Avengers film or Shang-Chi getting in a sequel before Secret Wars.

But it's been the exact opposite of condensed cause even though it has been by virtue of real world years, Phases 4 and 5 have had WAY more content overall. Like, it's not even close when you compare considering all the shows and such

 

[Flint Marko]

Just finished Cap 4. Awful, man. What are we doing

 

[flickchick85]

I can’t believe this is the first time we’ve gotten the movie’s logo in a video promo.

 

[Drizzle]

That just reminds me that we got Shaq as Steel in a movie before any Marvel character with the exception of Howard the Duck made their big screen debut. The '90s were a hell of a time.