The Superhero Cinematic Civil War Thread* - Part 61

[Ninjablade]

"Infinity War flounders around trying to justify his motivations" Where does the movie itself try to justify Thanos actions? What am I missing?

At no point does the movie present what Thanos is trying to do as a good thing. What the **** are we even doing, man?

Motivations =/= actions. I did not say that the movie presents Thanos' actions as reasonable. I said the movie tries to make his motivations seem reasonable. Which is a completely different sentence, hence different wordage.

 

[Ninjablade]

Oh man, we've officially entered the "Infinity War and Endgame weren't that great in retrospect" phase haven't we? I didnt think we'd get here so quickly.

Nothing retrospective about it from me. I've always felt this way. I've been complaining about Endgame since half the film leaked

 

[Spider-Fan]

Motivations =/= actions. I did not say that the movie presents Thanos' actions as good. I said the movie tries to make his motivations seem reasonable. Which is a completely different sentence, hence different wordage.

But I don't think it is. It only ever presents his motivations as being reasonable to Thanos. Which in the end is all that matters. Even the few scenes where Thanos debates what he is doing with other characters, like Gamora, Strange, etc. It's all framed not so we can identify with his actions, it is so we can see how dedicated he and his Black Order are to his cause, and thus why they're a threat. I don't think the movie at all actually tried to make Thanos seem reasonable

 

[Sithborg]

Oh man, we've officially entered the "Infinity War and Endgame weren't that great in retrospect" phase haven't we? I didnt think we'd get here so quickly.

Finally, some company. I think the biggest mistake, and the one that causes the biggest disconnect between the Thanos in IW and the one in Endgame, is the scene with the soul stone.

As per RDJ, I am curious what a $100 million dollar performance looks like.

 

[emielaen]

Plenty didn’t like em much when they came out lol or just found them fine, which is fine.

 

[Mysteryman]

Looks like the final tally for Captain America will be just over 400 million, won't even match Aquaman 2. Yikes.

Maybe. But someday,BNW will be part of my movie collection. Aquaman 2 never will be.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Motivations =/= actions. I did not say that the movie presents Thanos' actions as reasonable. I said the movie tries to make his motivations seem reasonable. Which is a completely different sentence, hence different wordage.

I don't see how the movie tries to make his motivations seem reasonable at all. He gives his backstory to Doctor Strange who basically dismisses it with sarcasm and condescension. Most of the time the movie just hammers home what a threat Thanos is, that his motivations are just why he is so driven. He is a character with a very strong will who is willing to sacrifice whatever and whoever is in his way and is an unstoppable force. That is largely why the movie works so well. The villain is the biggest threat ever and he's killing characters that the audience loves. He is completely ruthless and unstoppable and you can't reason with him and no one can beat him. That to me is what makes MCU Thanos a great villain.

 

[Lily Adler]

Nothing retrospective about it from me. I've always felt this way. I've been complaining about Endgame since half the film leaked

This is fat Thor and Prof. Hulk slander!

 

[Lily Adler]

 

[Lily Adler]

There's nothing wrong with taking a retrospective lens at things and noticing the holes that maybe we didnt notice at the time but you GOTTA admire the gargantuan task the Russos, Markus and Mcfeely pulled off by making two movies that took plot threads and arcs of more than 20 movies and threaded them together so seamlessly. For all intents and purposes those movies should have been utter disasters.

Side note: you guys ever wonder in an alternate reality where the Sony/Marvel deal never happened, what the MCU would have been like without Spider-man? Spider-man seemed to fit so perfectly within the MCU tapestry and the overall story it was telling, who would Stark have mentored, if anybody?

Aka waiting for recency bias to fade...

 

[Still Wynning]

*sees more tired discourse about how the MCU and certain films were never that great in the first place actually*



Seriously, it’s like this message board is a pack of lions just waiting to pounce on a bunch of unsuspecting antelopes every time this subject comes up. I still hold to a lot of my criticisms I’ve had with previous projects, but, good god, it’s so predictable that it has almost become boring and exhausting.

 

[Spider-Fan]

*sees more tired discourse about how the MCU and certain films were never that great in the first place actually*

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Seriously, it’s like this message board is a pack of lions just waiting to pounce on a bunch of unsuspecting antelopes every time this subject comes up. I still hold to a lot of my criticisms I’ve had with previous projects, but, good god, it’s so predictable that it has almost become boring and exhausting.

I will say that Infinity War was in top 5 MCU for a lot upon release, but I never had it quite that high. But I still really like the movie and always have. I just never thought of it as TWS/EG/Avengers 1 tier. Mostly cause while I like Steve's introduction into the movie, I never really loved the Steve trio/Wanda & Vision plot. But the Thor/Rocket & Groot, Strange/Tony/Peter, and Thanos/Gamora plots? All that I am A-okay with. But yeah, some of the revisionist history on the older movies I am not on board with. I have watched IW/EG back to back many times, and they still hold up

 

[Elayis]

I've been burnt out on the MCU since Civil War, so criticizing popular films is nothing new for me. I've never liked the Russos outside of Winter Soldier (and even that film is overrated), so their rehiring was a source of frustration for me from the beginning.

That said, I think your perception of their MCU projects being largely disliked here has more to do with the Hype's declining membership than anything else. Every time I go back to older threads I'm always shocked by how many posters have disappeared in the last few years. This site's basically a shell of its former self. I haven't done the numbers, but I wouldn't be shocked if the amount of current active users is less than a fifth of what they were a decade ago. The internet in general is also much less optimistic than it used to be, but so is the world.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I've been burnt out on the MCU since Civil War, so criticizing popular films is nothing new for me. I've never the Russos outside of Winter Soldier (and even that film is overrated), so their rehiring was a source of frustration for me from the beginning.

That said, I think your perception of their MCU projects being largely disliked here has more to do with the Hype's declining membership than anything else. Every time I go back to older threads I'm always shocked by how many posters have disappeared in the last few years. This site's basically a shell of its former self. I haven't done the numbers, but I wouldn't be shocked if the amount of current active users is less than a fifth of what they were a decade ago. The internet in general is also much less optimistic than it used to be, but so is the world.

To be fair to SHH, message boards in general are a declining medium within social media. People have largely migrated elsewhere, and I don't really keep up with the popular trends. Never was a Discord or Reddit user and I couldn't tell you where most people go now. I have been here since 2003, so this is still my go to even if membership has declined

 

[Elayis]

To be fair to SHH, message boards in general are a declining medium within social media. People have largely migrated elsewhere, and I don't really keep up with the popular trends. Never was a Discord or Reddit user and I couldn't tell you where most people go now. I have been here since 2003, so this is still my go to even if membership has declined

Yeah, I'm not criticizing SHH specifically, it was just an observation. Like you, I have basically zero interest in modern social media. Forums are the only place online where you can even attempt to have a worthwhile conversation with people you don't know in real life. I'll be here until the site or the film industry shuts down, whichever comes first.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Can't get mad at folks for having a difference of opinion, or if their opinions don't align with yours. That's what makes these old message boards fun in the first place.

That being said, I still think Infinity War and Endgame are two of the best things that Kevin Feige ever wrote and directed for an ensemble cast that huge.

Also thought Thanos' egomaniacal plan and motivations were clear.

 

[BoredGuy]

I've been burnt out on the MCU since Civil War, so criticizing popular films is nothing new for me. I've never liked the Russos outside of Winter Soldier (and even that film is overrated)

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

People certainly are entitled to their opinions and differing opinions are food for discussion, but I can agree that the "Hype" part of the SHH name sometimes feels ironic as it can feel like there's an active choice to focus on the negative. I guess that's pretty common for the Internet though and it's at least nowhere close to things like the whining channels on Youtube. There may be some validity to the notion that it's about declining membership as it now may be less likely to always be people vocal on both sides on a conversation. Then again I've taken breaks from Internet discussion before as I'm sometimes not good enough at not falling into an overall negative mindset myself when I read it, and that makes entertainment not fill its purpose.

 

[Iceman]

My opinion on why these films are more popular is that they are rarer (along with the larger scale) within their own genre. When Star Wars came out it was obviously not the best film to date, but very few film fans of the era will have missed that one even if there are one or 2 other classic Westerns, gangster films, dramas, war films etc that they never got around to.

In the same way the rarity with TWS is that it happens to be in the superhero genre, the other qualities it has with action style/stealth/subterfuge etc are present in other high quality films in other genres.

There isn't a whole lot out there like the original Star Wars, LotR & IW/EG. If you don't watch those, you miss something that is quite different (whether good or bad) - and unlike the smaller scale superhero films that became common and thereby missable to the GA (even if they had kept a very high quality).

But sequel events (like the prequel trilogy, Hobbit films, future superhero event films) that don't do something another order of magnitude differently, don't/won't automatically have the same appeal, as they are no longer a novel event (again regardless of quality).

 

[Deck Rickard]

Oh man, we've officially entered the "Infinity War and Endgame weren't that great in retrospect" phase haven't we? I didnt think we'd get here so quickly.

Oh yes.

Please take us back to the days of true quality CBMs like The Phantom and Batman Forever. mArVeL rUiNeD eVeRyThInG!!!!

 

[Iceman]

People certainly are entitled to their opinions and differing opinions are food for discussion, but I can agree that the "Hype" part of the SHH name sometimes feels ironic as it can feel like there's an active choice to focus on the negative. I guess that's pretty common for the Internet though and it's at least nowhere close to things like the whining channels on Youtube. There may be some validity to the notion that it's about declining membership as it now may be less likely to always be people vocal on both sides on a conversation. Then again I've taken breaks from Internet discussion before as I'm sometimes not good enough at not falling into an overall negative mindset myself when I read it, and that makes entertainment not fill its purpose.

If it was a forum called Superhero Discussion / Debate / Argument etc .com, it would make more sense (and probably attract a lot less people). But on a fair few forums I've seen new members come with all the excitement in the world and even they themselves seem to find it uncool to get excited about similar things a few years later, and almost want to shut down when other subsequent new members get excited about later projects. A strange phenomenon. Maybe it's just people getting older but I am not maturing at all which makes me able to enjoy this stuff like a (dumb? ) kid still.

 

[Elayis]

I'd say the film is mostly good, but Redford's character is underwritten, the third act with the CGI helicarriers targeting no one of consequence lacks emotional stakes, and the movie doesn't have a real ending, it just stops with blatant sequel bait.

 

[KBX]

 

[Babillygunn]

Attack the Block is such an amazing film.

 

[Babillygunn]

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Who is that in that picture? I don’t know…who could it be?



(Lifelong UK basketball fan here)