BvS The Superman Suit Thread - Part 4

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]489293[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]482323[/split]

 

[Bruce Malone]

Should have probably waited for a more finished promo shot of the upgraded MoS suit.

Cavill looks like a floating marionette in the last pic there.

 

[DKDetective]

From last thread:

On the point about Routh's size, to me, regardless of size, the guy does not have right bone structure and genetics for Superman, pure and simple. Routh is not a wide guy and has a long torso which makes it hard for him to have a good V-shape even when he puts on muscle. Also, the guy has really high pec insertion points, means that his chest muscles take up less of the front of his torso, which once again gives him have less of a strong, masculine Superman-esque physique. In short, the guy had horrible bodybuilding genetics. Cavill, on the other hand, on top of how hard he worked, has phenomenal genetics. He has the bone structure and muscle shape of an Arnold Schwarzenegger or Ronnie Coleman.

 

[Last Of Krypton]

wrong thread

 

[regwec]

It is a little known fact that, when not saving the world, Superman is burdened with the unenviable task of captaining England's test cricket team.

 

[Matt.S99]

Poor Routh lol. I think for the kind of Superman they were going for (a Chris Reeve interpretation), he did a good job. And I think he could have been even better if the material was better.
Maybe he didn't have the ideal physique, but he sure had the chin!

 

[Uroboric Forms]

It is a little known fact that, when not saving the world, Superman is burdened with the unenviable task of captaining England's test cricket team.

I had no idea Superman changed his secret identity to Jason Schwartzman

 

[The Shape]

From last thread:

On the point about Routh's size, to me, regardless of size, the guy does not have right bone structure and genetics for Superman, pure and simple. Routh is not a wide guy and has a long torso which makes it hard for him to have a good V-shape even when he puts on muscle. Also, the guy has really high pec insertion points, means that his chest muscles take up less of the front of his torso, which once again gives him have less of a strong, masculine Superman-esque physique. In short, the guy had horrible bodybuilding genetics. Cavill, on the other hand, on top of how hard he worked, has phenomenal genetics. He has the bone structure and muscle shape of an Arnold Schwarzenegger or Ronnie Coleman.

I don't blame Routh's physique for not looking great, but rather, the suit itself. It's not only the actor's job to make himself look like a good Superman, but also the filmmakers. Since they were purposely trying to ape the Reeves look, they obviously didn't want him to have clear-cut muscle definition or any kind of sculpting in the suit itself. He didn't need to look completely shredded like the way Cavill's Superman suit makes him look, but they could have at least designed a suit with some slightly more pronounced muscle shading, padding, or sculpting to compliment/enhance Routh's physique.

He looked like a guy wearing an adult Superman Halloween costume at times. Obviously, that was fine back in 1978, but not so much in 2006.

 

[Tra-El]

I don't blame Routh's physique for not looking great, but rather, the suit itself. It's not only the actor's job to make himself look like a good Superman, but also the filmmakers. Since they were purposely trying to ape the Reeves look, they obviously didn't want him to have clear-cut muscle definition or any kind of sculpting in the suit itself. He didn't need to look completely shredded like the way Cavill's Superman suit makes him look, but they could have at least designed a suit with some slightly more pronounced muscle shading, padding, or sculpting to compliment/enhance Routh's physique.

He looked like a guy wearing an adult Superman Halloween costume at times. Obviously, that was fine back in 1978, but not so much in 2006.

 

[Lencho01]

There's something about the SR suit that makes me think it isn't really comfortable to wear. At least compared to the other Superman suits we've seen on film and TV.

 

[Hurm...]

The SR suit's logo and belt look very plastic-y. It does look like something out of Toys R Us.

 

[KarkClent]

I don't mind the plastic-y shield too much. I like how it pops out at you (something the current suit does, too, though much better). It's just too small, still has that ugly "red", and doesn't really mesh with the rest of the suit. It looks like they just hot glued it to a blue morph suit. The buckle is a pointless redundancy.

 

[Gu3ree]

I liked Routh's belt buckle. Light blue though...no. Brown-red...terrible looking cape...it's not even a real cape. The "S" still to this day is just way too small. It's so far off from his chest that when he flies straight into the camera, the logo is too low.

In Man of Steel, Superman's first flying scene, when he's flying straight into the camera with one arm, you see the S in full format, stretched and rising up to his colar.

His hair though...why did Singer make it look like that? Esepcially from his left side. He should have had sideburns too.

I never liked the Superman Returns S logo, but I think it looks pretty cool on the belt buckle. The format is better. I liked how they changed in slightly in the tv series, Smallville, I thought it actually looked cooler.

 

[slumcat]

From last thread:

On the point about Routh's size, to me, regardless of size, the guy does not have right bone structure and genetics for Superman, pure and simple. Routh is not a wide guy and has a long torso which makes it hard for him to have a good V-shape even when he puts on muscle. Also, the guy has really high pec insertion points, means that his chest muscles take up less of the front of his torso, which once again gives him have less of a strong, masculine Superman-esque physique. In short, the guy had horrible bodybuilding genetics. Cavill, on the other hand, on top of how hard he worked, has phenomenal genetics. He has the bone structure and muscle shape of an Arnold Schwarzenegger or Ronnie Coleman.

I would agree. The bodytype of Routh was wrong for Superman. You actually surprisingly don't want that tall of a guy because of what's stated above, the V shape wouldn't be as pronounced or would be difficult to achieve. Most of the greatest bodybuilders aren't the tallest men around. HC might not be the tallest leading man in Hollywood but his bodytype is definitely the perfect fit for Superman.

I think SR dropped the ball completely in terms of the the visual image of Superman or wanting to show any kind of muscle definition or musculature. But I also think it was a product of its time. I think CBM movies then were not as geared towards getting the physical appearance exactly right. I think the pioneer in that regard, was again, unsurprisingly, Snyder with 300 in 2007, a year after SR. It was the first time the audience had seen actual comic book level physiques on screen with unprecedented muscle definition and the likes. That film kinda pretty much transformed the landscape in terms of what actors in CBM needed to look like, and in that film Snyder achieved this WITHOUT costumes. So when he was going to transition to costumed CBMs, he would of course we just as demanding and get the physique exactly right.

And i would argue Snyder stands alone in this regard. Look at the other superhero movies, Marvel and Fox etc., they all have actors in good shape but none of them appear super sculpted 'in costume'. The 3 Marvel Chrises, and Jackman etc, all in amazing shape, but their suits are not showing off their physiques.

So in that regards, it is only a Snyder concern. No other directors are really going after that kind of look and aesthetic, only Snyder is. I am glad that atleast he is doing it though. I think for someone like Superman, it is necessary, more so than others. And in Cavill he has found an actor who can likewise aid him to bring that kind of an exaggerated Comic book image to life.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Somehow the SR video game actually managed to make the suit look even worse...

Also, for some reason, this pic is LOLworthy:

 

[regwec]

That gif is a work of art!

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, it really is.

 

[storyteller]

I would agree. The bodytype of Routh was wrong for Superman. You actually surprisingly don't want that tall of a guy because of what's stated above, the V shape wouldn't be as pronounced or would be difficult to achieve. Most of the greatest bodybuilders aren't the tallest men around. HC might not be the tallest leading man in Hollywood but his bodytype is definitely the perfect fit for Superman.

I think SR dropped the ball completely in terms of the the visual image of Superman or wanting to show any kind of muscle definition or musculature. But I also think it was a product of its time. I think CBM movies then were not as geared towards getting the physical appearance exactly right. .

I disagree on Routh being the wrong body type. They made the wrong costume for him. I guess he was wrong for the suit they went with but then they should have made the suit work with him.

Look at the costumes tests for Returns. They actually had better designs in that the lowed that god damn collar and made the S bigger.

Henry got bit but they also gave him a very nice muscle suit. Routh had no padding(probably some).

At the end of the day Singer dropped the god damn ball. When it comes to picking costumes, hey he works with some very talented designed but he has a poor eye for it. He's a storyteller first. Snyder though had very good eyes for visuals.

Now around the time of Superman Returns, Spiderman + Batman begins had figured out this physique thing. Even Singer should have learned from his own X2. Of course X-men demonstrated how much Singer didn't care for the costumes.

I think now he may understand that all black leather isn't the best costume.

 

[Legendver2]

And i would argue Snyder stands alone in this regard. Look at the other superhero movies, Marvel and Fox etc., they all have actors in good shape but none of them appear super sculpted 'in costume'. The 3 Marvel Chrises, and Jackman etc, all in amazing shape, but their suits are not showing off their physiques.

So in that regards, it is only a Snyder concern. No other directors are really going after that kind of look and aesthetic, only Snyder is. I am glad that atleast he is doing it though. I think for someone like Superman, it is necessary, more so than others. And in Cavill he has found an actor who can likewise aid him to bring that kind of an exaggerated Comic book image to life.

I would say Snyder pretty much started the trend of jacked superheroes after 300. But this is doubly important for Superman, just based on the fact of how his comic book costume looks. Before 300, you got guys that were fairly in shape, no big deal was made about their body. After 300, almost everybody superhero movie after made a big deal of how so and so actor got in shape for it. And every single one of them has a shirtless scene displaying that ripped body. But unlike Superman, the costumes themselves weren't a plain color, aside from Cap.

Heroes like Cap, Batman (Nolan era), Thor, Spider-Man, Starlord, all have costumes that were either lined with armor, like Nolan Bats and Iron Man, or have intricate designs on them, like Thor, so those actors can get away with it. So Superman was the only one who is basically just a suit, so you somehow HAVE to make him appear ripped through the suti, since he doesn't not have the intricacies of other heroes in terms of design to hide the non-ripness that is hard to translate onscreen from a comic.

I disagree on Routh being the wrong body type. They made the wrong costume for him. I guess he was wrong for the suit they went with but then they should have made the suit work with him.

Look at the costumes tests for Returns. They actually had better designs in that the lowed that god damn collar and made the S bigger.

Henry got bit but they also gave him a very nice muscle suit. Routh had no padding(probably some).

At the end of the day Singer dropped the god damn ball. When it comes to picking costumes, hey he works with some very talented designed but he has a poor eye for it. He's a storyteller first. Snyder though had very good eyes for visuals.

Now around the time of Superman Returns, Spiderman + Batman begins had figured out this physique thing. Even Singer should have learned from his own X2. Of course X-men demonstrated how much Singer didn't care for the costumes.

I think now he may understand that all black leather isn't the best costume.

I do agree that Routh isn't to be blamed for looking like a weak Superman (at least partly). Dude is indeed tall, and seems his genetics are geared more towards fashion model than fitness model, with his lanky proportions and all. But he did work pretty hard to get in Superman shape, as can be seen in this post from way back then.

You can see in the first pic, he was actually pretty big, but somehow when he's in costume, all that bulk is gone, and you're left with some Michael Phelps body type.
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=18068333&postcount=4387

 

[DKDetective]

I would say Snyder pretty much started the trend of jacked superheroes after 300. But this is doubly important for Superman, just based on the fact of how his comic book costume looks. Before 300, you got guys that were fairly in shape, no big deal was made about their body. After 300, almost everybody superhero movie after made a big deal of how so and so actor got in shape for it. And every single one of them has a shirtless scene displaying that ripped body. But unlike Superman, the costumes themselves weren't a plain color, aside from Cap.

Heroes like Cap, Batman (Nolan era), Thor, Spider-Man, Starlord, all have costumes that were either lined with armor, like Nolan Bats and Iron Man, or have intricate designs on them, like Thor, so those actors can get away with it. So Superman was the only one who is basically just a suit, so you somehow HAVE to make him appear ripped through the suti, since he doesn't not have the intricacies of other heroes in terms of design to hide the non-ripness that is hard to translate onscreen from a comic.



I do agree that Routh isn't to be blamed for looking like a weak Superman (at least partly). Dude is indeed tall, and seems his genetics are geared more towards fashion model than fitness model, with his lanky proportions and all. But he did work pretty hard to get in Superman shape, as can be seen in this post from way back then.

You can see in the first pic, he was actually pretty big, but somehow when he's in costume, all that bulk is gone, and you're left with some Michael Phelps body type.
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=18068333&postcount=4387

I don't think you, theShape, and storyteller fully appreciate the importance of bone structure and muscle shape in how someone looks when they put on muscle. Slumcat and I are perfectly aware of the Returns' suit's failings. We were just trying to remind people that as bad as that suit was, Routh didn't have the right body type for Superman. People around here seem to think that men will look the same if they put in the same amount of effort trying to put on muscle, which is utterly false. Like like with women, there is a huge amount of variety in men's body types. It didn't matter that he got big as that photo you linked showed. He just doesn't have a Superman frame. Look at how narrow and lacking of a proper V-taper he is in that photo despite having big arms.

 

[Legendver2]

I don't think you, theShape, and storyteller fully appreciate the importance of bone structure and muscle shape in how someone looks when they put on muscle. Slumcat and I are perfectly aware of the Returns' suit's failings. We were just trying to remind people that as bad as that suit was, Routh didn't have the right body type for Superman. People around here seem to think that men will look the same if they put in the same amount of effort trying to put on muscle, which is utterly false. Like like with women, there is a huge amount of variety in men's body types. It didn't matter that he got big as that photo you linked showed. He just doesn't have a Superman frame. Look at how narrow and lacking of a proper V-taper he is in that photo despite having big arms.

Well to be honest, I was just trying to be impartial, but I did say you can't blame him entirely since the suit is also at fault, but I did mention that he has the genetics that would gear him towards more lanky fashion model than buff fitness model and bodybuilders.

 

[Matt.S99]

Edit

 

[Micromind]

I don't think you, theShape, and storyteller fully appreciate the importance of bone structure and muscle shape in how someone looks when they put on muscle. Slumcat and I are perfectly aware of the Returns' suit's failings. We were just trying to remind people that as bad as that suit was, Routh didn't have the right body type for Superman. People around here seem to think that men will look the same if they put in the same amount of effort trying to put on muscle, which is utterly false. Like like with women, there is a huge amount of variety in men's body types. It didn't matter that he got big as that photo you linked showed. He just doesn't have a Superman frame. Look at how narrow and lacking of a proper V-taper he is in that photo despite having big arms.

It's the job of costume designer and director to make the best suit taking into account the body type of the actor, not every actor has the same body type, for instance Cavill's body type is not same as George Reeves type, heck, Cavill as he looked in Immortals is different than Cavill in MOS.

Routh was asked to stop training and gaining muscle by Singer, not his fault, also Singers trainers sucked, so did his muscle suit, you know something is wrong with muscle suit when Zod in MOS looks to have a better muscle suit than Superman had in SR.

And the fact that the suit design was horrible, it accentuated Routh swimmer's physique, making his torso look longer. There was no need to have a high cape attachment around the actor's neck (rather than shoulders), the low trunks were also part of the problem.

The suit design is utter failure when the actor and character look bad in it.

Edit: Blaming just the actor (Routh) for the mistakes (and shortcomings) of Costume designer, director, Gym trainers and whoever took those horrible promo photos is unfair and biased.

 

[Mace Dolex]

Another thing wrong with the SR suit are the additional 2-3 inch thick soles on Routh's boots, he was already a tall guy why did the costume designer feel the need for that?