The Force Awakens The Sword Fighting of TFA *Spoilers*

[CELTICPRED]

Your picture library must be expansive. Thanks.

 

[Taarna]

Yo you might need to delete that lol.

Agreed. The light saber battle was weaker than any of the last three movies.

Kylo Ren was a Disney villain!

 

[Snow Queen]

Agreed. The light saber battle was weaker than any of the last three movies.

Kylo Ren was a Disney villain!

Unsurprisingly, you don't seem to be paying attention to what you're replying to.

 

[TDK elbowstrike]

My favorite duel is episode 5 in Cloud City. I like the ROTJ duel Alot too, mostly because Luke's green lightsaber left such an indelible mark. As a kid seeing him ignite it for the first time... damn.

Anyways, I liked the duel from TFA, but it certainly has room for improvement. They lightsabers looked more dangerous, Ala the original trilogy, but the combatants seem unrefined.

 

[Horhey]

ROTJ is my favorite as well.

 

[jaqua99]

My favorite duel is episode 5 in Cloud City. I like the ROTJ duel Alot too, mostly because Luke's green lightsaber left such an indelible mark. As a kid seeing him ignite it for the first time... damn.

Anyways, I liked the duel from TFA, but it certainly has room for improvement. They lightsabers looked more dangerous, Ala the original trilogy, but the combatants seem unrefined.

I thought it was an improvement as well. I thought the duel in episode 4 between Vader and Obi Wan was laughably embarrassing. I watched it with my friend before the movie and actually caught myself wincing. The fight was better in 5, but I still got a very "big kids swinging swords" vibe. Episode 6 was better but I personally never got past the "actors fighting with swords" perspective in the OT. The fight in TFA, was better and I assume if Ren was uninjured, he'd been a little more impressive in my eyes. I'm sure they'll tweak it but, I just can't get past the OT duels being meh. Vader looked good, occasionally ducking, parying, and disarming, but he looked awkward holding the sword in my opinion

 

[Jaxon]

I thought it was an improvement as well. I thought the duel in episode 4 between Vader and Obi Wan was laughably embarrassing. I watched it with my friend before the movie and actually caught myself wincing. The fight was better in 5, but I still got a very "big kids swinging swords" vibe. Episode 6 was better but I personally never got past the "actors fighting with swords" perspective in the OT. The fight in TFA, was better and I assume if Ren was uninjured, he'd been a little more impressive in my eyes. I'm sure they'll tweak it but, I just can't get past the OT duels being meh. Vader looked good, occasionally ducking, parying, and disarming, but he looked awkward holding the sword in my opinion

In 4 you have to remember both Obi-Wan and Vadar were old men, Obi-Wan in particular. He knew he was no match for Vadar so didn't even raise an effort and was basically fading himself into the force. You have to read that into that fight to accept it for what it is.

TFA fights were spot on. Light saber battles aren't about technique, it's about the anticipation you have through the force which means you can know ahead of time the next move from your opponent, hence they're able to deflect blaster fire. They are mean't to be a bit raw and brutal, a bit unrefined. The Darth Maul one was a bit stupid, he was a martial artist with a light saber and it was just out of place.

 

[superkong 500]

I love the cloud city dule in ESB but I hate the duel in ROTJ luke is swinging his lightsaber like a freaking baseball bat. its like he took a lighsaber for the first time and he's trying to break a piñata, also vader just lays there waiting for luke to cut his hand. You can tell they changed directors because Kershner would've never choreographed a duel that way.

 

[Voltron]

After watching the Rey/Kylo duel, I noticed many times Kylo could've stabbed/striked Rey. Especially one move where she turned the tables and had the upper hand in the duel, she raises both hands up in the air to strike Kylo, but he could've stabbed her anywhere in her exposed body. I initially thought these were flaws until I realised that Kylo even though he was injured wanted Rey alive for Snoke.

 

[Hotwire]

I'm holding out hope that they'll bring in more weapon types interpreted into lightsabers. Let's see a lightsaber designed like a claymore, tonfas, naginata. More fighting styles, too.

 

[titansupes]

^ That's actually one thing I really hope not to see. Too many gimmick Lightsabers will be... Well, gimmicky.

 

[Broseph44]

Some of you guys got me

 

[Infinity9999x]

Agreed. The light saber battle was weaker than any of the last three movies.

Kylo Ren was a Disney villain!

I completely disagree. From a stage combat aspect, the prequels lacked one very important thing: Acting and emotion.

Setting aside the fact that the prequels had the most extraneous movement, and the most obvious cases of attacking at nothing, when you get down to it, fights in movies need to do one thing: tell a story. Good stage combat is like a good scene. It progresses the plot and reveals aspects of the characters involved.

The original films, while not as flashy, we're pretty good at this. Take ESB. We see Luke grow more desperate, continually changing tactics as he attempts to fend off Vader. And we see how Vader plays with him, and then how quickly he ends the fight once he's actually hurt.

In ROTJ, we see how Luke loses his sh*&t once Vader threatens Leia, and how his fighting changes once he loses control. Compare this to TPM when Obi sees Qui-Gon bites the dust. He just...fights faster. No emotional change, no story told through that fight. Just pretty choreography.

TFA went back to the OT in terms of its fighting, and as such, was MUCH more satisfying, and much better combat overall. It told a story with its fights, the combatants looked like they were actually trying to attack one another, and the fighting styles were very different depending on who was fighting.

Technically, visually, and artistically, TFA's fights were much better than anything the prequels had.

 

[Solidus]

I completely disagree. From a stage combat aspect, the prequels lacked one very important thing: Acting and emotion.

Setting aside the fact that the prequels had the most extraneous movement, and the most obvious cases of attacking at nothing, when you get down to it, fights in movies need to do one thing: tell a story. Good stage combat is like a good scene. It progresses the plot and reveals aspects of the characters involved.

The original films, while not as flashy, we're pretty good at this. Take ESB. We see Luke grow more desperate, continually changing tactics as he attempts to fend off Vader. And we see how Vader plays with him, and then how quickly he ends the fight once he's actually hurt.

In ROTJ, we see how Luke loses his sh*&t once Vader threatens Leia, and how his fighting changes once he loses control. Compare this to TPM when Obi sees Qui-Gon bites the dust. He just...fights faster. No emotional change, no story told through that fight. Just pretty choreography.

TFA went back to the OT in terms of its fighting, and as such, was MUCH more satisfying, and much better combat overall. It told a story with its fights, the combatants looked like they were actually trying to attack one another, and the fighting styles were very different depending on who was fighting.

Technically, visually, and artistically, TFA's fights were much better than anything the prequels had.

Yeah, I agree. I've said it before this duel really was well done. It tells a story, and is amazing to look at, but it's mainly about the emotion. Most of all out of any of the duels this one really felt like the lightsabers would kill someone. They did create something a little more fast paced than the OT. But not by much. They found that perfect mixture. Giving us a sense of feeling, danger and intrigue once again. Some of my favorite shots are from that duel.

 

[Broseph44]

Yeah, I agree. I've said it before this duel really was well done. It tells a story, and is amazing to look at, but it's mainly about the emotion. Most of all out of any of the duels this one really felt like the lightsabers would kill someone. They did create something a little more fast paced than the OT. But not by much. They found that perfect mixture. Giving us a sense of feeling, danger and intrigue once again. Some of my favorite shots are from that duel.

This, it's right up there with the OT duels. Great stuff, so well done. You basically said everything perfectly.

 

[titansupes]

^

 

[OutOfBoose]

I completely disagree. From a stage combat aspect, the prequels lacked one very important thing: Acting and emotion.

Disagree on the emotion. There was enough acting and emotion in prequel duels. The only major flaw of prequel duels - they felt and looked TOO choreographed, sometimes to absurd level.

Rey-Kylo duel was amazing. Best of both worlds - enough spectacle, but still looked like a duel, not a dance.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Disagree on the emotion. There was enough acting and emotion in prequel duels. The only major flaw of prequel duels - they felt and looked TOO choreographed, sometimes to absurd level.

Rey-Kylo duel was amazing. Best of both worlds - enough spectacle, but still looked like a duel, not a dance.

The only prequel fight I felt emotion in was the ending ROS fight, and even then, most of it was drowned in the overly complicated set pieces.

The rest of them were little more than emotionless flash fests. They looked pretty, but there was nothing there. Phantom is a great example. Fun choreo, but Obi fighting after Qui-Gon dies was nearly identical to his fighting before, except being a bit faster. They didn't put any emotion into it.

 

[Loki882]

Here's the thing, the duel SHOULD look sloppy:

-You've got one guy who, while he has some fight training, is using a lightsaber for only the second time ever (he just got it like half a day before) and he's completely awkward and uncomfortable with it (hence why, back at Maz's castle, he picks up a blaster as soon as he gets the chance, because he's more familiar/comfortable with that kind of weapon).

-You have a girl who, while she has experience with melee combat (via her staff), has also never used a lightsaber before, so she uses it more like it was a staff than a sword-like weapon.

-Then you have another guy who does have some training/experience. But we don't know exactly how much lightsaber training he's had, or how much dueling experience either (he seemingly killed all of Luke's students years before, and he mostly uses the lightsaber against inanimate objects or people who cannot really defend themselves). He actually doesn't do anything all that impressive with it throughout the movie. Plus he's injured, angry, overconfident, and is mentally/emotionally cracking under the weight of having just killed his own father.

So if anything, this being a really acrobatic/obviously choreographed fight would have felt "wrong" and made little sense in-context.

 

[The Caped Knight]

 

[scarlet-witch]

^ I never get sick of watching lightsaber battles.