The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - Part 131 (NO SPOILERS)

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Parents die - Bruce devotes his entire being to dressing up like a bat and punching people.

Rachel dies - Batman sits in his house for nearly a decade.

Look, I'm not nitpicking. It's just motivationally weak.

As I said, I'm more than willing to go along for the ride.

 

[DorneyDave]

Someone will have to explain to me how Bruce would be rotting from the inside because he can't be Batman anymore and needs to be...when that is what he clearly wanted in TDK.

Did random character development take place between the events of TDK and TDKR where we can't see it?

Bah.

His goal was accomplished....on the back of a lie. And I'm sure TDKR shows us the character development we speak of. In fact, judging from reviews of fellow users...I can guarantee it does.

 

[Street Vendor]

Rachel dies - Batman sits in his house for nearly a decade.

He feels directly responsible for Rachel's death.

Also, he doesn't just retire because of his grief, but to help with

Spoiler

implementation of the Dent Act.

 

[J.Howlett]

Someone will have to explain to me how Bruce would be rotting from the inside because he can't be Batman anymore and needs to be...when that is what he clearly wanted in TDK.

Did random character development take place between the events of TDK and TDKR where we can't see it?

Bah.

Because, on a personal level, the Joker won. He couldn't protect Rachel and Dent. His actions in Begins lead to his own destruction by the end of Knight. Personal destruction and even more guilt.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Hmm... another negative from AICN http://www.aintitcool.com/node/57128

Not as ridiculousy over-the-top as Harry's, but negative nonetheless.

Now I haven't seen the movie yet (tomorrow!) but I am finding a lot of these negative reviews quite strange.

There seems to be some desperate attempt on the part of reviewers not to over-praise. I don't know if it's some sort of reaction to the perceived huge overpraise that TDK received, but nearly every negative or mixed review I've read always contains something like 'Now, this is not a perfect film by any standards', or 'There are many flaws'.

Again, I'm not bemoaning people for not liking the movie, but it's the way it's put comes across as holding this movie up to a standard that other movies would get a pass for. Rather than focusing on what's good about the movie (which many reviewers do concede), it seems they're more interested in harping on about all the 'flaws'. I mean REALLY nit-picking the thing.

Why such an obsession to find fault? I don't get it. Did you like the movie or not? If so, tell me why and don't obsess about the little things. If not, give me a reasoned argument and don't start nit-picking about 'unrealism'.

If you look at other reviews for other movies just on AICN (like Green Lantern, Ghost Rider 2 - especially Harry's review), you'll find the reverse.

'Yeah this movie was dumb as s***, but blah blah blah (8 paragraphs of finding the good) Go see it!'

For TDKR, we get the opposite

'Oh, it's all very well made but blah blah blah (8 paragraphs of nit-picking)

It's really starting to annoy me.

I think this reviewers are harder on this movie because of the universal praise (and worship by fanboys) of TDK which in turn, sent the Nolan Bat films into this holy grail of film making status. So now, reviewers are actively looking for faults with the movie because they don't want this movie to be seen as a flawless film like TDK.

I will be honest here, I love Batman and I love the Nolan films but The Dark Knight was/is overrated. Its a GREAT film don't get me wrong, but Ledger's Joker and Eckhart's Dent CARRY that movie. They outshine with Bruce/ Batman in most scenes (the only stand out moment with Bats is the AWESOME ending scene/speech). Heck some might even say the movie is boring when Joker or Dent aren't on screen.

 

[Stillsberry]

Not only are the critics nitpicky, but we are starting to get that way too. Mostly just those of us who haven't seen it yet. So, I'm officially taking a break until I see it tomorrow night. Have fun, and go into it with an open mind.

 

[JackBauer24]

Someone will have to explain to me how Bruce would be rotting from the inside because he can't be Batman anymore and needs to be...when that is what he clearly wanted in TDK.

Did random character development take place between the events of TDK and TDKR where we can't see it?

Bah.

It was always Bruce's intention in this franchise that Batman would be a short-term project in order to inspire Gotham to save itself. Once that task was achieved and he was no longer needed, Bruce would be free to pursue a normal life and would have honoured his parents' memory.

However, at the end of TDK, Batman has arguably caused more harm than good to Gotham, Rachel and Dent are dead, and Gotham's recovery is based on a lie.

So Batman is no longer needed, but Bruce can no longer have a normal life because
a) Rachel is dead (his one hope for a normal life)
b)Everything is based on the lie of Dent being a hero

So Bruce finds himself in this odd limbo. Without Batman he has no purpose, but he can't come back because everyone believes he is a murderer. That's my interpretation.

 

[DorneyDave]

Because, on a personal level, the Joker won. He couldn't protect Rachel and Dent. His actions in Begins lead to his own destruction by the end of Knight. Personal destruction and even more guilt.

Exactly. He also can't fix it, he's handcuffed. Gotham is at peace, but that peace is a lie...and temporary.

The Joker completely warped everything in Bruce's world.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Heck some might even say the movie is boring when Joker or Dent aren't on screen.

Real talk.

 

[The Guard]

So wait a minute...Bruce is potentially sitting in his house as a hermit for eight years because he feels guilty over something he did not do?

Ugh.

 

[J.Howlett]

He can't live/come out of the abyss because of the guilt over Rachel and Dent.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I had to give up my midnight screening tickets because I am helping out on this local short film that's going to be shooting early in the morning tommorrow. But I have a ticket for Friday night at the 8:10pm showing with friends (all the Imax showings were sold out)

 

[J.Howlett]

So wait a minute...Bruce is potentially sitting in his house as a hermit for eight years because he feels guilty over something he did not do?

Ugh.

His actions that start this entire process lost him the two hopes he had in hanging up his cruscade.

 

[Micromind]

Has Richard Roeper submitted his review ?

Meanwile RT top critic rating has dropped to 77 % with 8 rotten reviews and the overall rating has dipped to 86 % (127/ 147, 20 rotten)

 

[Street Vendor]

Not only are the critics nitpicky, but we are starting to get that way too. Mostly just those of us who haven't seen it yet. So, I'm officially taking a break until I see it tomorrow night. Have fun, and go into it with an open mind.

Yeah, I'm bored at work, but as soon as I leave, I'm taking a sabbatical till after I see the movie. I want to enjoy this movie when I see it.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Parents die - Bruce devotes his entire being to dressing up like a bat and punching people.

Rachel dies - Batman sits in his house for nearly a decade.

Look, I'm not nitpicking. It's just motivationally weak.

As I said, I'm more than willing to go along for the ride.

The ending of Dark Knight explains why Bruce/ Batman is sitting in Wayne Manor for all this time. Not trying to be a jerk, but did you not understand the purpose and meaning of the ending scene/ speech in Dark Knight?

 

[The Guard]

He can't live/come out of the abyss because of the guilt over Rachel and Dent.

That may be the stupidest, most emo thing I've ever heard.

Please tell me that's not what this film hinges on.

 

[The Guard]

The ending of Dark Knight explains why Bruce/ Batman is sitting in Wayne Manor for all this time. Not trying to be a jerk, but did you not understand the purpose and meaning of the ending scene/ speech in Dark Knight?

Far as I can tell, the purpose and meaning of the end scene/speech in TDK was to create a dark, dramatic, controversial ending with happy elements. The filmmakers knew they'd have to fix what they did with the third film. Here's hoping they found a way that isn't forced as hell to do so.

 

[DorneyDave]

So wait a minute...Bruce is potentially sitting in his house as a hermit for eight years because he feels guilty over something he did not do?

Ugh.

He feels guilty because of the lie. You mean to tell me he shouldn't? He has to witness all the tributes to Dent and Gordon having to be the public face of this huge lie they concocted. It's clear you just don't want to accept the story as it's being told.

I don't see why people can't understand this point. If he was Batman during these 8 years it would completely make the amazing ending of TDK pointless.

 

[JackBauer24]

I think this reviewers are harder on this movie because of the universal praise (and worship by fanboys) of TDK which in turn, sent the Nolan Bat films into this holy grail of film making status. So now, reviewers are actively looking for faults with the movie because they don't want this movie to be seen as a flawless film like TDK.

I will be honest here, I love Batman and I love the Nolan films but The Dark Knight was/is overrated. Its a GREAT film don't get me wrong, but Ledger's Joker and Eckhart's Dent CARRY that movie. They outshine with Bruce/ Batman in most scenes (the only stand out moment with Bats is the AWESOME ending scene/speech). Heck some might even say the movie is boring when Joker or Dent aren't on screen.

I see your point. I myself always preferred BB to TDK (although, funnily enough, I saw TDK at double bill screening the other night directly after BB, and it was by far, the most rewarding screening of that film I've ever had - I liked it MUCH more than I had in the past - and I always liked it). But I don't think it's very professional to let not only your opinion of a previous movie cloud your judgement of a current one, but to let other people's opinion of a different movie affect it. I mean for heaven's sake, just review the film, not the hype.

I'm sorry, I just think that sentences like 'This isn't a perfect movie' are not a good way to start out what is an ostensibly positive review. That's starting on the back foot, being negative before you've even begun. No wonder so many positives have been reported as negatives mistakenly in the review thread and on RT with all the nit-picking and negativity going on.

I honestly don't think every review needs to address the negatives of a movie - if you liked it a lot then let your review reflect that. I don't need two or three stock 'every movie has flaws' paragraph. Unless you really had serious issues with it - then fine, bring those up.

Not only are the critics nitpicky, but we are starting to get that way too. Mostly just those of us who haven't seen it yet. So, I'm officially taking a break until I see it tomorrow night. Have fun, and go into it with an open mind.

QFT

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

The ending of Dark Knight explains why Bruce/ Batman is sitting in Wayne Manor for all this time. Not trying to be a jerk, but did you not understand the purpose and meaning of the ending scene/ speech in Dark Knight?

I understood what they were attempting, but I thought it was unnecessarily convoluted.

Regardless, this isn't the only story that could've spun off from that conclusion.

 

[Joker594]

Has Richard Roeper submitted his review ?

No, but he did tweet this yesterday.

http://***********/richardroeper

@richardroeper - Full review of DKR tomorrow, but I'll say this: last scene = best five minutes of any movie so far this year.

 

[Micromind]

So wait a minute...Bruce is potentially sitting in his house as a hermit for eight years because he feels guilty over something he did not do?

Ugh.

Maybe Nolan should have made 4 years duration, it is like SR where many fans wanted Superman to be absent for more than five years, here for some - eight years is too much.

Just accept it as a part of the movie logic.

 

[JackBauer24]

So wait a minute...Bruce is potentially sitting in his house as a hermit for eight years because he feels guilty over something he did not do?

Ugh.

I don't think it's just guilt. It's stagnation. Bruce may have been looking forward to a day when Batman was no longer needed (at least until Rachel and Harvey's deaths), but now he realises how empty his life is without Batman. It was all he had, and now he can't be Batman any more (due to him making himself a villain for the city's sake). So he sits in his mansion, broods on the past and doesn't know what to do with himself.

 

[The Guard]

The end of TDK isn't neccessarily amazing in my eyes, so much as forced and convoluted. There was certainly not one story that had to be told after those events. Just one they chose.

He feels guilty because of the lie. You mean to tell me he shouldn't? He has to witness all the tributes to Dent and Gordon having to be the public face of this huge lie they concocted. It's clear you just don't want to accept the story as it's being told.

So wait a minute...this guy, who was ok with breaking the law and being violent and creating a monster and whatnot..who was ok with lying to an entire city...for their own good, because "Sometimes people deserve better", is suddenly racked with guilt over the decision he made to do so? Enough so that he becomes a hermit and barely lives for almost a decade?

I want it to be executed well. Not forced for the sake of having good drama because the filmmakers don't know how to create good drama.

Right now it feels really forced on paper.

I don't think it's just guilt. It's stagnation. Bruce may have been looking forward to a day when Batman was no longer needed (at least until Rachel and Harvey's deaths), but now he realises how empty his life is without Batman. It was all he had, and now he can't be Batman any more (due to him making himself a villain for the city's sake). So he sits in his mansion, broods on the past and doesn't know what to do with himself.

Ewww.

Well, at least he's taken up archery, from the sound of things.