The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - Part 138

[MagnarTheGreat]

Another thing I don't understand, why would Liam Neeson be looking at Bane be trained and not Josh Pence? I would guess that the cut scene is with Pence, not Neeson, and Bane has a primitive version of the mask. It should be soon after he was rescued.

This muddles the timeline unless it took Ra's like 20 years to figure out he didn't like Bane reminding him of his wife or loving Talia.

 

[joker1524]

Maybe I'm the crazy one here but of all Nolan's films I think TDK packs the biggest emotional punch. Rachel's death, Dent's descent into madness, Bruce losing his chance for a normal life, Gordon having to compromise his principles... it's one gut punch after the other, and it works because the characters and their conflicts feel real. That's what I felt was missing in TDKR... everyone felt like a sketch rather than a painting.

i agree..and also i feel that the story and its characters fit alot better together...the story doesnt go into too many places at once with each character and that imo was TDKR's weakness

 

[Rogue Kira]

i agree..and also i feel that the story and its characters fit alot better together...the story doesnt go into too many places at once with each character and that imo was TDKR's weakness

agreed

 

[Deserana]

Well, if you're judging it based on knowing it was originally there, than it's really not what they were basing their decision on. The question is do you think it was really missed by people who didn't know it was there before?

To be honest I only watch the prologue once in December I forgot most of it by when I saw it. I rewatched it a couple of weeks ago. I forgot about "about us" but I still noticed something was off. The cut was still too abrupt "had to find out what he told you-" the voice didn't drop down or anything it really did just sound like he hadn't finished his sentence. It wasn't until I rewatch the old prologue bootleg (wanted to see how much the voice had changed) that I realised "about us" cut.

I thought the starkness of the Tumbler in the snow shot worked to indicate the passage of time. You have to consider that it's preceded by a montage that glimpses into the future. So it's not quite as sudden as one cut. The montage during Bane's speech already established what the following months of occupied Gotham are going to be like. (Btw, I love love love that montage with Zimmer's score there. Very powerful stuff.)

But if it's still too jarring for you, that's really not necessarily Lee Smith's fault, and probably Nolan's. He'd be the one to make a call like that. I haven't read the script yet, but it seems like something that would have to be in the script.

Sorry to be so defensive, I'm an editor myself and I hate seeing the editor unfairly blamed for stuff!

Nolan and Smith have a collaberation with the editing so anything that is in there would be a choice from both of them so if I say Lee Smith I mean both of them but I only brought the names up specifically to compare them with Inception. I found Inception's editing flawless however TDKR's had moments where I couldn't help but feel that it was cut too short and just snippets of dialogue that was cut. It just seemed a little odd. Something I never felt in TDK either.

I don't think the montage displayed much even though I do also think it is awesome. Especially not 5 months it just showed people pulled out of homes and enjoying themselves, something which likely happened within a week. The tumbler shot did sort work but I feel a much better shot could have been used, it would have helped to know what time of year Gotham was in before hand.

I think it felt jarring mainly because I thought we'd see a bit of the five months and not just *CUT* 5 months passed. I don't think it is Nolan's or anyones fault as looking at the script it was laways planned to be like that.

 

[Deserana]

IMO TDKR made TDK work better emotionally. TDK was just a series of punches all the way to the end. Even though it had Batman made possibly his most heroic act of the trilogy at the end it was still just like holy **** things went bad, The Joker pretty much won, the main hope crashed and burned and the love interest was blown to pieces. I mean yeah a great film and very unique that the hero didn't really win but it hardly had a feel good moment.

TDKR worked because it was Bruce's redemption to TDK in every way. He is now the hero, he is Gotham's hope, he gets a happy life with a new girl and his symbol will likely live on. For me this makes TDKR a much more emotional film no matter how cramped it may feel at times.

 

[KalMart]

To be honest I only watch the prologue once in December I forgot most of it by when I saw it. I rewatched it a couple of weeks ago. I forgot about "about us" but I still noticed something was off. The cut was still too abrupt "had to find out what he told you-" the voice didn't drop down or anything it really did just sound like he hadn't finished his sentence. It wasn't until I rewatch the old prologue bootleg (wanted to see how much the voice had changed) that I realised "about us" cut.

I feel kinda' lucky because I didn't want to watch the prologue in the state tat it was in ( a pirated version at the time, I believe), so I didn't notice that this voice was different or what have you. And frankly, I wasn't bothered by what or how he spoke, but moreso the barrage of ****ing sound and music that made everything a bit of a mess. t: So if there was anything abrupt about a dialogue cut or the like, it was (perhaps wisely) covered up by the aural onslaught.

 

[TinkerTailor]

IMO TDKR made TDK work better emotionally. TDK was just a series of punches all the way to the end. Even though it had Batman made possibly his most heroic act of the trilogy at the end it was still just like holy **** things went bad, The Joker pretty much won, the main hope crashed and burned and the love interest was blown to pieces. I mean yeah a great film and very unique that the hero didn't really win but it hardly had a feel good moment.

TDKR worked because it was Bruce's redemption to TDK in every way. He is now the hero, he is Gotham's hope, he gets a happy life with a new girl and his symbol will likely live on. For me this makes TDKR a much more emotional film no matter how cramped it may feel at times.

I'm glad that the majority of people seem to feel that way, I really am. For me, I really struggle to care about any of the characters in the film (even Bruce) because from a script point of view nothing feels in jeopardy and nothing feels earned by the time everything's resolved. I know how ridiculous that sounds given that Bruce's back is broken and he recovers in time to stop a nuclear bomb going off, but everything is rushed over to such a degree that the consequences of each action are barely felt.

I shouldn't really compare BB, TDK and TDKR, because prior to TDKR coming out I was one of those voices saying I didn't care if it was better than TDK, all I wanted was a good film on it's own terms. Unfortunately I really don't think it stands to the same scrutiny as BB and TDK, and in looking at the reasons why, I find myself drawn to what Nolan got right previously compared to what I feel he got wrong this time... and it all comes back to the script.

Once I've seen it a few more times I'm sure I'll be able to express myself better.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

I'm glad that the majority of people seem to feel that way, I really am. For me, I really struggle to care about any of the characters in the film (even Bruce) because from a script point of view nothing feels in jeopardy and nothing feels earned by the time everything's resolved. I know how ridiculous that sounds given that Bruce's back is broken and he recovers in time to stop a nuclear bomb going off, but everything is rushed over to such a degree that the consequences of each action are barely felt.

I shouldn't really compare BB, TDK and TDKR, because prior to TDKR coming out I was one of those voices saying I didn't care if it was better than TDK, all I wanted was a good film on it's own terms. Unfortunately I really don't think it stands to the same scrutiny as BB and TDK, and in looking at the reasons why, I find myself drawn to what Nolan got right previously compared to what I feel he got wrong this time... and it all comes back to the script.

Once I've seen it a few more times I'm sure I'll be able to express myself better.

No cartilage...getting his back broken (did Bane take his brace...if not...why not)...getting stabbed (hey remember that!?) ... introduced and then quickly forgotten.

 

[KalMart]

I'm glad that the majority of people seem to feel that way, I really am. For me, I really struggle to care about any of the characters in the film (even Bruce) because from a script point of view nothing feels in jeopardy and nothing feels earned by the time everything's resolved. I know how ridiculous that sounds given that Bruce's back is broken and he recovers in time to stop a nuclear bomb going off, but everything is rushed over to such a degree that the consequences of each action are barely felt.

I shouldn't really compare BB, TDK and TDKR, because prior to TDKR coming out I was one of those voices saying I didn't care if it was better than TDK, all I wanted was a good film on it's own terms. Unfortunately I really don't think it stands to the same scrutiny as BB and TDK, and in looking at the reasons why, I find myself drawn to what Nolan got right previously compared to what I feel he got wrong this time... and it all comes back to the script.

Once I've seen it a few more times I'm sure I'll be able to express myself better.

Well, TDKR had a LOT to live up to...moreso than perhaps it was fair to hold it against. Also, following TDK and Inception, I think some of us were expecting this to me more mind-bending or what have you in its complexity, when it was really a 'simpler' (for lack of a better term) story of redemption that was perhaps a bit too tightly-packed for its own good. We were naturally expecting mindblowing, and we got only 'very good'...which shod normally be heartily applauded, but can feel a bit underwhelming if you're expecting something biblical.

I also personally feel I should have insulated myself more from spoilers and so much speculation, as some things just weren't as impactfully surprising as they should have been...like his first Bat flight and others. I still feel this was the weakest of the three, but not by a whole lot. And because the bar was set so high, it's only natural to feel more disappointed....maybe moreso than it really deserves.

I give it a 7.5/10 as just a movie, but in a lot of ways it deserves higher for being the sendoff of an extraordinary achievement as a trilogy. This movie does its job very well, plain and simple....when it could have easily been a REAL letdown. It's definitely something that's rewatchable, and probably a lot more fun if you take away the 'critic hat' and just let it play, rather than holding it up against TDK.

 

[Travesty]

For me I view it a lot like Batman Forever: I'm sure I'll always watch it and enjoy it on DVD, but it still lacks in a lot of ways.

 

[Marvolo]

I feel kinda' lucky because I didn't want to watch the prologue in the state tat it was in ( a pirated version at the time, I believe), so I didn't notice that this voice was different or what have you. And frankly, I wasn't bothered by what or how he spoke, but moreso the barrage of ****ing sound and music that made everything a bit of a mess. t: So if there was anything abrupt about a dialogue cut or the like, it was (perhaps wisely) covered up by the aural onslaught.

Lol i love the heavy hitting aural onslaught you get from a Nolan/Zimmer collaberation. I know some dont like it, but when Zimmer's music is chiming away quitely in the background while the plane is flying over the hills i can't help but feel anticipation that builds and builds until Bane says "crashing this plane" and the music comes fullforce. I felt like a kid at christmas. Its was the same for Bane's speech in front of Blackgate. The energy builds and builds until it cuts to the arial shot of the penthouses and Bane says "an army will be raised" then the music and energy just comes on full force. I prefer TDK overall, i think, but TDKR had moments where the energy and emotion was electric

 

[TinkerTailor]

Well, TDKR had a LOT to live up to...moreso than perhaps it was fair to hold it against. Also, following TDK and Inception, I think some of us were expecting this to me more mind-bending or what have you in its complexity, when it was really a 'simpler' (for lack of a better term) story of redemption that was perhaps a bit too tightly-packed for its own good. We were naturally expecting mindblowing, and we got only 'very good'...which shod normally be heartily applauded, but can feel a bit underwhelming if you're expecting something biblical.

I also personally feel I should have insulated myself more from spoilers and so much speculation, as some things just weren't as impactfully surprising as they should have been...like his first Bat flight and others. I still feel this was the weakest of the three, but not by a whole lot. And because the bar was set so high, it's only natural to feel more disappointed....maybe moreso than it really deserves.

I give it a 7.5/10 as just a movie, but in a lot of ways it deserves higher for being the sendoff of an extraordinary achievement as a trilogy. This movie does its job very well, plain and simple....when it could have easily been a REAL letdown. It's definitely something that's rewatchable, and probably a lot more fun if yo take away the 'critic hat' and just let it play, rather than holding it up against TDK.

If I left my critic hat on whenever I saw a film nothing would pass the muster but Chinatown, The Big Lebowski and Alien.

I really did leave all that at the door. I genuinely don't think it did it's job as a send off very well. It has moments of absolute wonder, but as something interesting and coherent it falls apart when it should soar. The shame is it was nearly there. Another draft, cutting some fat and focusing on what really resonated in wrapping up Bruce's story and it would have been great.

 

[The Joker]

For me I view it a lot like Batman Forever: I'm sure I'll always watch it and enjoy it on DVD, but it still lacks in a lot of ways.

TDKR and Batman Forever in the same sentence. It's dark days indeed

 

[KalMart]

Lol i love the heavy hitting aural onslaught you get from a Nolan/Zimmer collaberation. I know some dont like it, but when Zimmer's music is chiming away quitely in the background while the plane is flying over the hills i can't help but feel anticipation that builds and builds until Bane says "crashing this plane" and the music comes fullforce. I felt like a kid at christmas. Its was the same for Bane's speech in front of Blackgate. The energy builds and builds until it cuts to the arial shot of the penthouses and Bane says "an army will be raised" then the music and energy just comes on full force. I prefer TDK overall, i think, but TDKR had moments where the energy and emotion was electric

I just felt it was too thick and heavy gravy on something you'd want to taste more of the real flavor from if you will. Just too much of it everywhere...even if a lot of it was well made. I thought TDK did it too much and this one was just overboard. But as I mentioned elsewhere, the reference level for this theater seemed to be on the high side, as eve the 'regular' dialogue scenes even felt rather shout. But in general, for both TDK and TDKR, that's one area (aside form the exposition) where I think Nolan could exercise a bit more modesty....not use as much 'sauce', so to speak.

 

[joker1524]

my main problem with this film is that many scenes that looked awesome in the trailer were apart of a montage style type shots...it was the main reason why i thought captain america sucked cuz of that...it just feels rushed

 

[KalMart]

If I left my critic hat on whenever I saw a film nothing would pass the muster but Chinatown, The Big Lebowski and Alien.

I really did leave all that at the door. I genuinely don't think it did it's job as a send off very well. It has moments of absolute wonder, but as something interesting and coherent it falls apart when it should soar. The shame is it was nearly there. Another draft, cutting some fat and focusing on what really resonated in wrapping up Bruce's story and it would have been great.

Oh...even just seen without any expectations, I still put it, all in all, in third place. But I think that there are ways of feeling more 'okay' with that, than the initial disappointment. I also agree that it's issue should have been solved primarily in the writing, so I think it's still made as well as that script/story could be made, and there's appreciation to be found there as well.

 

[Marvolo]

I just felt it was too thick and heavy gravy on something you'd want to taste more of the real flavor from if you will. Just too much of it everywhere...even if a lot of it was well made. I thought TDK did it too much and this one was just overboard. But as I mentioned elsewhere, the reference level for this theater seemed to be on the high side, as eve the 'regular' dialogue scenes even felt rather shout. But in general, for both TDK and TDKR, that's one area (aside form the exposition) where I think Nolan could exercise a bit more modesty....not use as much 'sauce', so to speak.

Yeah i know what you mean. I like moments like the Bane/Batman fight where its raw. Just the sounds of the fight. No music. The scene is running on its own energy. I also like the dialed back moments too. There is something about Zimmer tho. When it comes to him i just want his music to sore so to speak. Especially in the more "epic" and grand moments. I dont really have a standard when it comes to music in a movie. Its more of a feeling really. There is a spot that some composers can hit and i turn into a kid again basking in the wonder of it all. I grew up on star wars and indiana jones and those big fantasical movies with their grand scores and i remember how i felt setting in the theater letting it role over me. Zimmer takes me back to those moments for some reason.

 

[Deserana]

Zimmer's score was stunning especially during the stock exchange/batpod chase sequence. However, I wished they used a different track than "The Fire Rises" for the final battle as epic as it sounded "Imagine the Fire" would have suited it better.

 

[KalMart]

Yeah i know what you mean. I like moments like the Bane/Batman fight where its raw. Just the sounds of the fight. No music. The scene is running on its own energy. I also like the dialed back moments too. There is something about Zimmer tho. When it comes to him i just want his music to sore so to speak. Especially in the more "epic" and grand moments. I dont really have a standard when it comes to music in a movie. Its more of a feeling really. There is a spot that some composers can hit and i turn into a kid again basking in the wonder of it all. I grew up on star wars and indiana jones and those big fantasical movies with their grand scores and i remember how i felt setting in the theater letting it role over me. Zimmer takes me back to those moments for some reason.

I tend to like things like that the best...when you can let the natural rhythm and sounds of the action be the 'soundtrack', so to speak. And they've done that well in these movies in parts like the fight and some of the chases in TDK. I not the biggest Zimmer fan, but he does do his 'thing' very well. And I also saw the big blockbusters when they came out, but also grew up on how Kubrick and Scorcese used music/songs as well. I just think that Nolan in particular is a bit too heavy handed in that area with these films. I call it the 'fog of danger' that's always looming around thick, musically speaking....just feel he could exercise a bit more moderation. Other times it's like 'Jesus, enough already...we get it!'

 

[craigdbfan]

I feel kinda' lucky because I didn't want to watch the prologue in the state tat it was in ( a pirated version at the time, I believe), so I didn't notice that this voice was different or what have you. And frankly, I wasn't bothered by what or how he spoke, but moreso the barrage of ****ing sound and music that made everything a bit of a mess. t: So if there was anything abrupt about a dialogue cut or the like, it was (perhaps wisely) covered up by the aural onslaught.

Having seen the prologue in IMAX and the Nuprologue from the final film in IMAX I can confidently say that the first one was leagues better and nowhere near as jarringly dubbed.

In the final IMAX version the voice doesn't even sound like it's in the same confine of space as the other actors voices. It's quite jarring. You can even hear the background audio mix lower its volume exclusively for Bane but not for the other actors.

It seriously caught me off guard. I knew people had said they cleared up the voice but this was altogether a different dub from Hardy from inflection, intonation, pitch & delivery.

 

[Deserana]

Bane's voice is awful in the new prologue. It all sounded normal then "Or perhaps he was-" and I was like "whaaaaaaaa" I know the rest of the film doesn't sound like Hardy but there is still a tint there in the prologue it sounds like a foreign dub.

 

[KalMart]

Then I guess I'm REALLY lucky I didn't see it before.

Or maybe I did but only once and didn't remember it too well.

 

[Deserana]

Someone claimed that when they saw the film a second time the old prologue was used. Probably BS.

 

[the dmg]

So my friend was just texting me over the anger that he feels for TDKR now that he's viewed it for a third time. He loved it the first two times, but the third showing, he said he started to notice a lot of little things, and those little things kind of eat away at the movie as a whole.

 

[souvlaki]

So my friend was just texting me over the anger that he feels for TDKR now that he's viewed it for a third time. He loved it the first two times, but the third showing, he said he started to notice a lot of little things, and those little things kind of eat away at the movie as a whole.

It was the exact opposite for me. First viewing I found a lot of tiny things to nitpick but after my second and third viewings everything clicked and suddenly those tiny things didn't seem so important.