The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 142

[BatLobster]

I think the idea is simply that Batman is rusty. Like Alfred said, Bruce only proved he could use Fox's toys and evade the police...this said nothing about how he'd be able to handle himself in a confrontation with a better and stronger fighter than he had ever faced even in his prime.

It's not just like Knightfall, it's also very much like The Dark Knight Returns, where Bats gets his ass handed to him in the mutant leader in their first fight, despite Alfred pleading for him not to fight someone like that when he's out of his prime.

Also, showing Batman to be a little sluggish in the first fight helped for contrast, since he's a lot more graceful and quick in the second fight.

 

[Bane Cook]

I would have enjoyed it more if they hadn't turned Batman into a complete amateur in that one fight. I get that they wanted to showcase Bane's badassness, but it could have been possible to do that without turning Batman into a complete noob.

It was not only to show how badass Bane is, but also to illustrate just how RUSTY Batman is at this point. It's been almost a decade since he's suited up. =/

About the LOS members in this movie: The League seemed worse in this movie. It probably was not intentionally be that way but what if it was? I wonder who these League members are. Are they members that followed Bane when he was excommunicated? Residual members after Ra's died? I know some of them are just average people that joined, like a gang. There was that kids brother who dies. And there were those two guys who captured Gordon. Those guys definitely seemed that new recruits off the street.

I think the idea is simply that Batman is rusty. Like Alfred said, Bruce only proved he could use Fox's toys and evade the police...this said nothing about how he'd be able to handle himself in a confrontation with a better and stronger fighter than he had ever faced even in his prime.

It's not just like Knightfall, it's also very much like The Dark Knight Returns, where Bats gets his ass handed to him in the mutant leader in their first fight, despite Alfred pleading for him not to fight someone like that when he's out of his prime.

Also, showing Batman to be a little sluggish in the first fight helped for contrast, since he's a lot more graceful and quick in the second fight.

Exactly. I'm surprised by how many people don't get this. The choreography was designed to make him look sloppy, desperate, and winded. All of which ANY fighter would look after even just taking a year off. After 8 years, he could have easily "forgot"(muscle memory wise) all that he knew about fighting. The "roar" that he does illustrates this. The frustration of knowing he's still good in his head and he should win, but his body just won't perform like it used to.

 

[The Batman]

I think the idea is simply that Batman is rusty. Like Alfred said, Bruce only proved he could use Fox's toys and evade the police...this said nothing about how he'd be able to handle himself in a confrontation with a better and stronger fighter than he had ever faced even in his prime.

It's not just like Knightfall, it's also very much like The Dark Knight Returns, where Bats gets his ass handed to him in the mutant leader in their first fight, despite Alfred pleading for him not to fight someone like that when he's out of his prime.

Also, showing Batman to be a little sluggish in the first fight helped for contrast, since he's a lot more graceful and quick in the second fight.

I get that...but using tricks that Batman should know wouldnt work is kinda foolish of him, which is different from being rusty. Using the same LOS weapons and stealth techniques was a bad idea, and Bruce should've known that. That's like me trying to stump someone with basic 101 Algebra when we had the same Basic Algebra 101 Teacher.

And I'm sorry, but the part where Bane grabs Batman in the shadows is a giant example of what C Lee is talking about, a pure "Bane iz teh awesome" moment. I mean, it worked, but still....

 

[BlueLightning]

I love how C Lee is bringing the truth right now.

And you just know that if C Lee's name weren't highlighted in red, you'd read more posts like "You're nitpicking too much, why can't you just enjoy the movie?"

I did... but then again, I have done it so many times that is almost tiring. I learned that you can't please everybody. What works for some people doesn't for others.

 

[The Joker]

Nope...the only reason I saw for that scene was to make Batman look pathetic. This was Bane's moment....he could no wrong and Batman could no right. It was written in to provoke a specific response, and it succeeded at that...it was not meant to be logical, or represenative of Batman's actions from the previous 2 movies.

I suppose. If Batman is going to use gadgets, it should make sense. A few little exploding pellets was the most random thing. It was the only part of the fight I didn't understand.

Just re-watched some clips on youtube. Man, Batman should have died multiple times in this Movie. Like the part when he comes to Blakes rescue. He takes Bane's people down one at a time. Everyone is carrying guns. Instead off taking aim and shooting his damn ass, they wait till he is finished with one of their buddies, then run at him and try to shove their guns into his face. Makes me miss the shakey cam.

Yeah, that fight in front of Blake was awfully staged. Guns should have been going off everywhere there. There was about 5 or 6 of them armed.

I love how C Lee is bringing the truth right now.

And you just know that if C Lee's name weren't highlighted in red, you'd read more posts like "You're nitpicking too much, why can't you just enjoy the movie?"

My thing is...Batman knows that Bane is a LOS member....so why is he only using LOS tricks during the fight? Like C Lee said, the scene was written to make Bane look awesome, like it was written by a rabid Bane fanboy...just like the romance aspect of this film feels like it was written by a Bat/Cat shipper.

All in all, the first Bane fight works because of the mood and Bane spouting some great lines.

And the brutality. The fight is really brutal. I loved that.

 

[Bane Cook]

I get that...but using tricks that Batman should know wouldnt work is kinda foolish of him, which is different from being rusty. Using the same LOS weapons and stealth techniques was a bad idea, and Bruce should've known that. That's like me trying to stump someone with basic 101 Algebra when we had the same Basic Algebra 101 Teacher.

It was pure desperation.

 

[The Batman]

All in all, I keep forgetting that Bale's Batman isn't the masterclass crimefighter from the comics/cartoons...so I really shouldnt be surprised at some of the details in that first fight.

And the brutality. The fight is really brutal. I loved that.

Yup, that too. Kinda reminds me of the James Bond/Red Grant fight from FRWL. Just pure mano y mano viciousness.

 

[Bane Cook]

All in all, I keep forgetting that Bale's Batman isn't the masterclass crimefighter from the comics/cartoons...so I really shouldnt be surprised at some of the details in that first fight.

Well, yea. He's more of a normal human and thus more susceptible to human follies.

 

[The Batman]

Thank you. All this time, I thought he was from the planet Gallifrey.

 

[Bane Cook]

Thank you. All this time, I thought he was from the planet Gallifrey.

I'm just AGREEING with you that he's not the super human, super intelligent, person he is in the comics. Thus he's more susceptible to the human error that he would never happen in the comics.

 

[BatLobster]

I get that...but using tricks that Batman should know wouldnt work is kinda foolish of him, which is different from being rusty. That's like me trying to stump someone with basic 101 Algebra when we had the same Basic Algebra 101 Teacher.

All in all, I keep forgetting that Bale's Batman isn't the masterclass crimefighter from the comics/cartoons...so I really shouldnt be surprised at some of the details in that first fight.

Yup I was gonna say, Batman never really used projectile weapons against his adversaries in these films. He only used the batarangs to take out lights. The only instances I can think of is shooting his gauntlet blades at Joker's face and the bat-tranquelizer darts from later in TDKR (which I would assume were stashed in the bunker). Everything he else he used (the sticky bomb gun, the Bat mines, the mangler) had non-combat uses. I mean sure, Batman could have fired the gauntlets again...but if Bane dodges them and now Batman is without his gauntlets, it doesn't make him look any smarter. Pretty much anything in Batman's arsenal fits under the categories of "theatricality and deception" too.

I would have liked to at least see him go for the grapple gun at one point though, just have Bane kick it out of his hand. I missed it in TDKR, even a nod to it would have been nice.

 

[BlueLightning]

I would have liked to at least see him go for the grapple gun at one point though, just have Bane kick it out of his hand. I missed it in TDKR, even a nod to it would have been nice.

Yes, and also gliding with the cape.

 

[JackWhite]

I'm fairly certain that he uses the grapple gun to pull the hostage from the stock exchange off of the thugs motor bike. It's off screen, but how else would he have grabbed him?

Yeah, I definitely missed the cape gliding. I guess that's why he had to use the bat, because his body probably couldn't afford the high altitude. I'm at least grateful that we got three shots of Batman standing atop of a large building in each of the three films.

 

[Marvolo]

Yup I was gonna say, Batman never really used projectile weapons against his adversaries in these films. He only used the batarangs to take out lights. The only instances I can think of is shooting his gauntlet blades at Joker's face and the bat-tranquelizer darts from later in TDKR (which I would assume were stashed in the bunker). Everything he else he used (the sticky bomb gun, the Bat mines, the mangler) had non-combat uses. I mean sure, Batman could have fired the gauntlets again...but if Bane dodges them and now Batman is without his gauntlets, it doesn't make him look any smarter. Pretty much anything in Batman's arsenal fits under the categories of "theatricality and deception" too.

I would have liked to at least see him go for the grapple gun at one point though, just have Bane kick it out of his hand. I missed it in TDKR, even a nod to it would have been nice.

Better yet he uses his grapple gun and as he is going up Bane grabs him or tackles him mid air and just brings him crashing back to the ground.

 

[Bane Cook]

Better yet he uses his grapple gun and as he is going up Bane grabs him or tackles him mid air and just brings him crashing back to the ground.

Heh. That would have been awesome. Or Batman tries to grapple upward but Bane grabs his foot as he shoots up and rips him down.

 

[Marvolo]

Heh. That would have been awesome. Or Batman tries to grapple upward but Bane grabs his foot as he shoots up and rips him down.

That too. But him getting jerked down from his grapple plus his wittle fwash bangs may have made him look a little too pathetic tho. The flash bangs really are pathetic enough on their own lol.

 

[Street Vendor]

All in all, I keep forgetting that Bale's Batman isn't the masterclass crimefighter from the comics/cartoons...so I really shouldnt be surprised at some of the details in that first fight.



Yup, that too. Kinda reminds me of the James Bond/Red Grant fight from FRWL. Just pure mano y mano viciousness.

I watched from FRWL earlier this week, and as I watched TDKR tonight, the similarities were striking.

 

[BlueLightning]

Yeah, I definitely missed the cape gliding. I guess that's why he had to use the bat, because his body probably couldn't afford the high altitude. I'm at least grateful that we got three shots of Batman standing atop of a large building in each of the three films.

Spoiler

 

[Reek]

as epic looking as that shot is... its incredibly dumb. lol really? he randomly said hey lets climb to the top of a bridge.

 

[BlueLightning]

"He does that."[/Gordon]

 

[Nathan]

Spoiler

Even that I find a little silly. Why is he standing on a tower outside the city? I'm just trying to make sense out that scene. Did he drive all the way out, just to climb a tower, gaze upon the city, then climb back down and return? If he happened to prowl the rooftops and then stopped at the edge of a building, to gaze upon the city, ok.

 

[Anita18]

The first Bane-Batman fight played out almost exactly like the first fight Batman had with the Mutant Leader in DKR. There, the leader demanded on fighting him man-to-man, without the fancy weapons. So Batman gets out of his Tumbler-thing and they duke it out with their fists.

Bane doesn't make such a specific demand of Batman, but the same feeling is there. These two guys represent masculinity, one used for good and one for evil, and they are going at it with no trickery. The stuff that Batman DOES try out of desperation, are his attempt to distract Bane just enough so he can get in edgewise. But to use the grapple gun to escape or to string up Bane would have been unacceptable in such a fight. Unrealistic, yes, but they were saying a lot by filming it that way.

 

[BatLobster]

The first Bane-Batman fight played out almost exactly like the first fight Batman had with the Mutant Leader in DKR. There, the leader demanded on fighting him man-to-man, without the fancy weapons. So Batman gets out of his Tumbler-thing and they duke it out with their fists.

Bane doesn't make such a specific demand of Batman, but the same feeling is there. These two guys represent masculinity, one used for good and one for evil, and they are going at it with no trickery. The stuff that Batman DOES try out of desperation, are his attempt to distract Bane just enough so he can get in edgewise. But to use the grapple gun to escape or to string up Bane would have been unacceptable in such a fight. Unrealistic, yes, but they were saying a lot by filming it that way.

I see that it this way too. Even though I mentioned the use of the grapple gun, that's more just for cool factor and not because I think it would have fit the scene.

The fact that all of the LOS/mercenary guys are just standing there watching really sets that arena/gladiator vibe. It said a lot about what type of confrontation this is meant to be, by Bane's design.

 

[the last son]

When Bruce is escaping the pit do bats really fly out of the cracks? I don't know why but ever since I first saw the movie I always felt the bats were just in his imagination. Either way it was great to see the bats at least once.

 

[the last son]

Also, when he escapes why throw the ropes down for everyone to escape? Were they wrongfully held? I thought everyone outside of Bruce was there for a reason.