The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - Part 153

[The Joker]

Dose socks > everything

Now there's a Joker

I love those socks so much I bought a pair on ebay back in 2008 lol.

 

[Victarion]

That's another thing, the skin tone is too pale. He looks like a vampire or an albino.

I'm happy with the albinism-like appearance. Its closer to his comic appearance without duplicating the chemical burns, bleaching or what have you that we got with Nicholson's Joker. That said, I wouldn't be upset if he were given a more dandified, androgynous look as opposed to the street tough one he's currently sporting.

I remember the slow burn reveal of that Joker pic. Good times.

 

[The Joker]

I'm happy with the albinism-like appearance.

Of course you are. If I like something or am against something you're almost guaranteed to be the opposite of that

Its closer to his comic appearance without duplicating the chemical burns, bleaching or what have you that we got with Nicholson's Joker.

Two things;

1. It's not close to the comic appearance. Joker's skin is proper snow white, not albino white or pale vampire skin white. He looks like a blood donor who couldn't say no.

2. You don't have to duplicate Nicholson's look to give him genuine clown looking white skin

 

[Victarion]

I'm not completely pleased with it. More on the fence. As I said, I'd prefer the androgynous dandy to the prison thug look. Granted, my like of the DCCU Joker and Aquaman is more due to my enjoyment of the old Conan and Elric stories than the actual source material. I really don't have a leg to stand on in this debate.

edit: It hit me in the midst of my quarter-life crisis. As I was popping a HIM cd into my player. Leto Joker looks like Ville Valo from about 05-06.

 

[The Shape]

He's horribly pale. He looks like a blood donor who couldn't say no lol. It's a terrible shade of white for the Joker to have.

As opposed to, say, skin color and half worn-off facepaint? Lol

Someone posted a link to the old pre-TDK thread that was a "sanctuary" for those who didn't like Heath's Joker reveal. Pretty sure I saw some of our posts in there and you were quite displeased with that first picture, as most of us were.

Here's hoping you'll have the same change of opinion with Leto's Joker as you did with Heath's when all is said and done.

 

[The Joker]

As opposed to, say, skin color and half worn-off facepaint? Lol

Well yeah exactly like that, because at least that covered the majority of his face, was proper clown white make up, and gave him a demented clown look.

Someone posted a link to the old pre-TDK thread that was a "sanctuary" for those who didn't like Heath's Joker reveal. Pretty sure I saw some of our posts in there and you were quite displeased with that first picture, as most of us were.

I think I remember that thread. But I always said that first pic didn't show much, not even his hair or his body, just a close up of his face. People came around the more we saw with the green hair, purple suit etc.

Here's hoping you'll have the same change of opinion with Leto's Joker as you did with Heath's when all is said and done.

I want to. I don't want to dislike any version of Joker. Leto's is the first one since that ape looking Joker in The Batman cartoon that I have actively disliked. But even if they do give him a great suit and all, we'll still be looking at a Joker face that says damaged on the forehead, a tattoo tear running down his left cheek, and silver teeth. Even an amazing Leto performance would not distract me from that, especially the damaged tattoo.

 

[Travesty]

Heh, and I'm even inclined to say this is worse than The Batman's Joker. Maybe Capullo's too, but not sure?

 

[The Shape]

Well yeah exactly like that, because at least that covered the majority of his face, was proper clown white make up, and gave him a demented clown look.

I think I remember that thread. But I always said that first pic didn't show much, not even his hair or his body, just a close up of his face. People came around the more we saw with the green hair, purple suit etc.

I know each reveal is was quite different and Leto shows more, but the fact remains that first impressions in the form of a still photo aren't close to being true representations of the finished product. Reveals like just

If you could have told me after that first Joker reveal (and learning that he wouldn't be perma-white) that Heath Ledger (and Nolan) and would give us such a great version of the Joker (one of the best ever) that truly captured the essence of the character in just about every way, I doubt I would have believed you and may have laughed in your face.

So witnessing that kind of turn-around previously, after so much pre-judgement and initial disappointment came from all of us, has left me feeling a little more hopeful this time -- despite this initial disappointment. After that experience with TDK, it's almost impossible for me to automatically write this one off because literally anything can happen.

I want to. I don't want to dislike any version of Joker. Leto's is the first one since that ape looking Joker in The Batman cartoon that I have actively disliked. But even if they do give him a great suit and all, we'll still be looking at a Joker face that says damaged on the forehead, a tattoo tear running down his left cheek, and silver teeth. Even an amazing Leto performance would not distract me from that, especially the damaged tattoo.

I know, and I know how important the character is to you, so we really just need to hope for the best and they they'll blow you away.

 

[The Batman]

I feel...indifferent about Leto Joker, at least in terms of this look.

 

[The Joker]

Heh, and I'm even inclined to say this is worse than The Batman's Joker. Maybe Capullo's too, but not sure?

What you mean the leatherface Joker in the garage coveralls?

I know each reveal is was quite different and Leto shows more, but the fact remains that first impressions in the form of a still photo aren't close to being true representations of the finished product. Reveals like just

If you could have told me after that first Joker reveal (and learning that he wouldn't be perma-white) that Heath Ledger (and Nolan) and would give us such a great version of the Joker (one of the best ever) that truly captured the essence of the character in just about every way, I doubt I would have believed you and may have laughed in your face.

So witnessing that kind of turn-around previously, after so much pre-judgement and initial disappointment came from all of us, has left me feeling a little more hopeful this time -- despite this initial disappointment. After that experience with TDK, it's almost impossible for me to automatically write this one off because literally anything can happen.

But when you look at the two by comparison, that first Ledger pic was just an obscured face close up. I imagine had it been a full body shot people would have been much more jazzed. I mean this;

Would have jazzed people a lot more than this;

Because the first pic shows more than just his face. Whereas Leto's is pretty revealing shot showing the whole top half of his body. Given all the effort put into those tattoos and the fact they chose that image to reveal him strongly suggests that will be a regular look for him in the movie. And no suit is going to hide those face ones.

I know, and I know how important the character is to you, so we really just need to hope for the best and they they'll blow you away.

Well thanks, man. Believe me I hope you're right. I keep hoping WB or Leto are just trolling us.

 

[The Shape]

But when you look at the two by comparison, that first Ledger pic was just an obscured face close up. I imagine had it been a full body shot people would have been much more jazzed.

Because the first pic shows more than just his face. Whereas Leto's is pretty revealing shot showing the whole top half of his body. Given all the effort put into those tattoos and the fact they chose that image to reveal him strongly suggests that will be a regular look for him in the movie. And no suit is going to hide those face ones.

Like I said, I'm aware of the differences between the reveals and that we are seeing more Leto's Joker in this picture than of did of Heath in his first shot. But coming at this with the perspective of the Joker we have in our minds and the kind of Joker we'd want to see represented on the screen, both appearances would be initially offensive or disappointing -- even with the second picture of you posted.

You remember the madness over the perma-white debate. Whether Heath's first reveal was with the extreme close-up or a full body shot, people still would have been outraged that he was missing one of the most inherent and iconic aspects of his appearance and origin (white skin), and that he had a scarred face and self-applied makeup instead of permanently white skin. He was also dirty, sloppily composed and not exactly what one would describe as "dapper". He was somewhat far from the Joker we knew and hoped for, appearance-wise.

But we got past it and didn't have to simply learn to live with it or accept it. Rather, we loved it because when it all came together in the finished product, it worked. The voice, mannerisms, dialogue, and his actions all gelled together -- which is why it wouldn't shock me if we saw a similar turn-around of opinion when all is said and done this time.

This Joker really only has 2 major departures from the comics: tattoos and some silver teeth. I highly doubt he'd be shirtless for more than a scene in the movie...

Well thanks, man. Believe me I hope you're right. I keep hoping WB or Leto are just trolling us.

I definitely hope they're trolling about the face tats and teeth.

 

[AnneFan]

I am fine with them using the character again. I am right behind Leto's casting, but from an aesthetics point of view, I didn't want this version. Stating you don't like something doesn't make you a hysterical, hard to please fanboy, either. I just don't like the look.

 

[Snow Queen]

Heh, and I'm even inclined to say this is worse than The Batman's Joker. Maybe Capullo's too, but not sure?

Oh, I don't think I can go that far. Unless Leto moves like a monkey too.

 

[Shikamaru]

My only complaint with Leto are some of the tattoos. They come off very generic as opposed to more creative, and creativity is what a huge part of the Joker's psychology is all about.

Performance wise, I'm very optimistic.

 

[The Joker]

Like I said, I'm aware of the differences between the reveals and that we are seeing more Leto's Joker in this picture than of did of Heath in his first shot. But coming at this with the perspective of the Joker we have in our minds and the kind of Joker we'd want to see represented on the screen, both appearances would be initially offensive or disappointing -- even with the second picture of you posted.

You remember the madness over the perma-white debate. Whether Heath's first reveal was with the extreme close-up or a full body shot, people still would have been outraged that he was missing one of the most inherent and iconic aspects of his appearance and origin (white skin), and that he had a scarred face and self-applied makeup instead of permanently white skin. He was also dirty, sloppily composed and not exactly what one would describe as "dapper". He was somewhat far from the Joker we knew and hoped for, appearance-wise.

But we got past it and didn't have to simply learn to live with it or accept it. Rather, we loved it because when it all came together in the finished product, it worked. The voice, mannerisms, dialogue, and his actions all gelled together -- which is why it wouldn't shock me if we saw a similar turn-around of opinion when all is said and done this time.

This Joker really only has 2 major departures from the comics: tattoos and some silver teeth. I highly doubt he'd be shirtless for more than a scene in the movie...

The perma white thing was people arguing over whether his make up was permanent or not. People were accepting his look the more they saw, some were just in denial and of the belief he could still be perma white. As opposed to Leto's, unless his tattoos are removable and not permanent, it doesn't change that people hate the aesthetic. Unless they suddenly decide these tattoos and silver teeth look cool, I don't see this going away.

Not to mention this has him wearing words on his body, that is so in your face, like the damaged one right on his forehead, that would distract from his performance for many people, whereas Ledger's Joker never had any such thing. I mean he looks like a crazy teen Joker fan who has tattooed himself in honor of his idol.

I also seriously doubt he'll be shirtless for just one scene. This is the reveal pic, and they clearly put some effort into those tattoos, so it has to be a look he sports for more than just one scene.

Heath's Joker had changes from the traditional look, but none of them were so overt as the tattoos. They are really jarring and in your face.

I definitely hope they're trolling about the face tats and teeth.

I had to change my avatar back to the one with all the other Jokers just to remind me I still have all them to love no matter what

 

[BatLobster]

My only complaint with Leto are some of the tattoos. They come off very generic as opposed to more creative, and creativity is what a huge part of the Joker's psychology is all about.

Performance wise, I'm very optimistic.

That is honestly my biggest issue too. If you're going to give The Joker tattoos, they had better well be bizarre/funny/creative. They seem to have really missed the mark on that, because these are extremely generic and predictable...like corporate branding. Like many have said, it really just makes him seem like a Joker fan. He actually cared enough to get that ink on his body, and it's completely lame for the most part.

Some would argue that Heath using makeup also puts him in that "Joker fan" category, but I never saw it that way. The way it's all haphazardly smeared on is creepy as hell and adds to the "clown at midnight" vibe. He actually looked "damaged", he certainly didn't need it literally spelled out on his face.

Now, Leto could make it all work and I'm hoping he does just that. But personally speaking, I never had a problem with Ledger's look. Even the first photo, I wasn't quite sure what to make of it but I never outright hated it...and it grew on me pretty quickly. I just found the picture haunting, and I was struck by how I didn't see Heath Ledger at all. Every subsequent photo of him in the purple suit or green vest just sealed the deal for me. Unfortunately with this Leto picture, I see Leto in green hair covered in corny tattoos and trying to act crazy. So for me, this is my first time actively disliking the look of a cinematic Joker (as has been presented SO FAR).

 

[Brother Jack]

Why would they be trolling with the face tattoos and grill? The first Ledger reveal really was not misleading. It didn't show very much but as far as the face went it was pretty much exactly what his face looked like in the final film, give or take a lipstick smear. I have no reason to doubt that the Leto pic is exactly indicative of his on screen look. The only thing that's missing is the full costume. But unless he's wearing a mask the whole movie that won't conceal what's happening on his face.

 

[The Joker]

^ That's exactly what I thought. I don't buy this tattoo look is a prank (since when do WB pull pranks like this?), or a "celebration" of Joker's 75th anniversary (frankly I don't see how covering him tattoos celebrates that, especially when none of them even vaguely homage any of his past glories in comics or on screen).

 

[DX]

^ That's exactly what I thought. I don't buy this tattoo look is a prank (since when do WB pull pranks like this?), or a "celebration" of Joker's 75th anniversary (frankly I don't see how covering him tattoos celebrates that, especially when none of them even vaguely homage any of his past glories in comics or on screen).

Apparently, there's supposed to be a robin tattooed on his right arm which references the murder of Jason Todd. According to speculation, that is.

 

[shauner111]

You mean Dick Grayson. #Spoilers #Oops

 

[James H]

Amazing similarities between the scenes in The Dark Knight Rises and what's happening in Baltimore right now...

We even got the police charge from the film (take a look at the videos on the internet)

Baltimore:
Declared a state of emergency
Week-long curfew
As many as 5000 National Guard troops could be deployed
Armoured vehicles will be used
Violence
Flames
Looting

Rival gangs teaming up to "take out" Baltimore cops

Images on TV look more like Bane's Gotham than those you'd expect of a 21st century American city

What would Bane say...


"Baltimore, take control....take control of your city..."

"Spoils will be enjoyed. Blood will be shed. The police will survive, as they learn to serve true justice. This great city, it will endure. Baltimore will survive..."

 

[Victarion]

It was at the back of my mind, yeah.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Watched TDK over the weekend and currently watching TDKR. Hardy's performance is very underrated. His Bane was an awesome character. If he didn't follow Ledger's Joker he would get a lot more credit. I say that as someone who considers Ledger's performance the best in any superhero movie.

 

[The Chris]

I loved Bane. My friends and I kept repeating his lines in conversations all summer. Got to the point that we'd ask our managers "Do you feel in charge!". He probably would get more credit if it wasn't for that. I love the Blackgate scene, and I love the way Hardy used his eyes, especially in the pit scene with Bruce. I really think he complimented Bale very well. Heck Ledger did too. They just seemed like the perfect actors both for the roles themselves and for the dude playing Batman which I think is really important for superhero films.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Loved Bale's performance in this one. He seemed re-energized compared to TDK where a lot of it felt like he was going through the motions. TDKR performance felt more in line with what we got from Bale in Batman Begins.