The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - Part 154

[kvz5]

Did you guys see this?

Zoe Kravitz - http://www.nylon.com/articles/zoe-kravitz-august-2015

“In the last Batman movie [The Dark Knight Rises], they told me that I couldn’t get an audition for a small role they were casting because they weren’t ‘going urban,’” she says. “It was like, ‘What does that have to do with anything?’ I have to play the role like, ‘Yo, what’s up, Batman? What’s going on wit chu?’”

I wonder for which role? The Juno Temple role?

 

[Brother Jack]

Probably. It's messed up that a black actor can get pigeon-held as "urban" like that. But hopefully that's changing in the industry.

 

[shauner111]

Disagree with Phantasm that it was worse in Rises. It's about the same in Knight as it is in Rises.

In TDK/Rs, I hate the voice and the suit. It was a HUGE departure from what they did in BB.

Exaggeration. I dont think it's a huge departure. It's pushed but you can pretty much put his voice in TDK or TDKR next to "Swear to me" and it fits. Bale did it more in the sequels than Begins but it's there in the first film. Just like how there's a moment or two in both Knight and Rises where Christian sounds like he's going for the Begins approach.

The most extreme was A) the end of TDK with Joker but he's tired, injured. B) Trigger with Bane but he's tired and older.

Rises had the moment where he spoke as Bruce when he was stabbed by Talia. And then, he asks Catwoman to do something in his Bruce voice. That felt like Begins when he's batman, talking to Rachel in the batcave.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Disagree with Phantasm that it was worse in Rises. It's about the same in Knight as it is in Rises.

Exaggeration. I dont think it's a huge departure. It's pushed but you can pretty much put his voice in TDK or TDKR next to "Swear to me" and it fits. Bale did it more in the sequels than Begins but it's there in the first film. Just like how there's a moment or two in both Knight and Rises where Christian sounds like he's going for the Begins approach.

The most extreme was A) the end of TDK with Joker but he's tired, injured. B) Trigger with Bane but he's tired and older.

Rises had the moment where he spoke as Bruce when he was stabbed by Talia. And then, he asks Catwoman to do something in his Bruce voice. That felt like Begins when he's batman, talking to Rachel in the batcave.

His voice in the Batcave with Rachel is what he should have used for the entire trilogy. It isn't his Bruce voice but also isn't throat lozenge voice either. It was a nice compromise, similar to the whispering Bat voice from Keaton in B89.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah I was just gonna say, I will never understand when people say it sounded worse in Rises. It's pretty much the same as TDK, but I think it's modulated less. Then there are some awesome deliveries that give me chills during the third act (the scenes with Gordon, Blake and Selina leading up to the final battle).

To be honest is still all over the place in Begins to me, but it makes sense with a rookie Batman. It sounds different from one scene to another. So I don't even understand what people mean when they say "the Begins voice". You mean the gravely Clint Eastwood one when he gives Rachel the evidence? The whispery one when he talks to Gordon outside his apartment? The "Swear to ME!" growl? The "Do you drive stick" Bat-exposition voice? Or the how about the weird "what I doooo that defines me" voice? Literally none of those sound the same, and I could go on.

 

[Brother Jack]

The most extreme was A) the end of TDK with Joker but he's tired, injured. B) Trigger with Bane but he's tired and older.

The problem with the voice in Knight was the post-production audio mixing, which wasn't really Bale's fault. There wasn't any obvious usage of that in Rises so it works better in that movie. The triggerman scene is all Bale but it works for me given all that led up to that moment. It was Batman's months of pent-up rage and desperation exploding after defeating Bane.

 

[shauner111]

Just wanna throw this in here about Batfleck. Thanks to Kane for the gifs.

He looks GREAT here as Bruce, great expression.

And im really interested in this Batman scene, more than anything else in this movie.

But is he breaking this dudes neck here??

 

[redfirebird2008]

The Batvoice is worse in TDK than it is in TDKR.

 

[doobie]

Anyone else think Affleck looks slightly George Clooney -ish? And I mean that as a compliment.

I didn't notice till I saw still pics the army had Supe symbols. Oh man, bring on the movie.

 

[Travesty]

To be honest is still all over the place in Begins to me, but it makes sense with a rookie Batman.

He's a rookie in the entire trilogy.

 

[Malicked]

His voice in the Batcave with Rachel is what he should have used for the entire trilogy. It isn't his Bruce voice but also isn't throat lozenge voice either. It was a nice compromise, similar to the whispering Bat voice from Keaton in B89.

Then we would never have got that iconic 'Do I look like a cop?' convo as well as the mostly great Batman rage moments. Bale was the first to completely and utterly disguise his voice when it mattered .

 

[The Joker]

Disagree with Phantasm that it was worse in Rises. It's about the same in Knight as it is in Rises.

Exaggeration. I dont think it's a huge departure. It's pushed but you can pretty much put his voice in TDK or TDKR next to "Swear to me" and it fits. Bale did it more in the sequels than Begins but it's there in the first film. Just like how there's a moment or two in both Knight and Rises where Christian sounds like he's going for the Begins approach.

The most extreme was A) the end of TDK with Joker but he's tired, injured. B) Trigger with Bane but he's tired and older.

Rises had the moment where he spoke as Bruce when he was stabbed by Talia. And then, he asks Catwoman to do something in his Bruce voice. That felt like Begins when he's batman, talking to Rachel in the batcave.

Yeah I was just gonna say, I will never understand when people say it sounded worse in Rises. It's pretty much the same as TDK, but I think it's modulated less. Then there are some awesome deliveries that give me chills during the third act (the scenes with Gordon, Blake and Selina leading up to the final battle).

Hear hear.

I also get a personal kick out of the fact that the comic books pretty much tell us Batman's voice sounds like Bale's;

To be honest is still all over the place in Begins to me, but it makes sense with a rookie Batman. It sounds different from one scene to another. So I don't even understand what people mean when they say "the Begins voice". You mean the gravely Clint Eastwood one when he gives Rachel the evidence? The whispery one when he talks to Gordon outside his apartment? The "Swear to ME!" growl? The "Do you drive stick" Bat-exposition voice? Or the how about the weird "what I doooo that defines me" voice? Literally none of those sound the same, and I could go on.

I agree. It's like he was experimenting in his rookie stages.

 

[redfirebird2008]

He's a rookie in the entire trilogy.

Exactly right.

 

[Malicked]

Hear hear.

I also get a personal kick out of the fact that the comic books pretty much tell us Batman's voice sounds like Bale's;

The guy is an actor who doesn't take any half measures. He does thoroughly research his roles. It was always evident where he got that inspiration for the Bat growl from.

Anyway with regards to TDK specifically, Heath Ledger did such a transcendent job on The Joker. It's a performance that goes beyond mere comic book lore. Though some people use him to bash on Bale even more which I've never liked. My favourite scene from that movie was with both Ledger and Bale together in the interrogation scene. That's Bale at his Batman best and in the movie where people rip into Bale's voice the most.

 

[chamber-music]

Did you guys see this?

Zoe Kravitz - http://www.nylon.com/articles/zoe-kravitz-august-2015



I wonder for which role? The Juno Temple role?

She was most likely up for the Juno Temple role which was unmemorable. Zoe didn't miss out on anything.

Zoe Kravitz step-dad is Aquaman so she can probably get a better role in the new DC film universe.

 

[BatLobster]

By rookie I just meant his first new nights out on the job. Relative to the rest of the trilogy, those are his rookie days.

There is some suspension of disbelief that goes into Batman's experience level in the trilogy. By the time we get to TDK, even though it's only 6 months to a year later, it's meant to convey Batman in his prime. Nolan and Bale even said it's meant to more or less be the "fully formed' Batman when we get to TDK. The way he took out the entire SWAT team while protecting the hostages they were going after felt like classic Batman in his prime. We also get the most detective work here, we get "paranoid thinking 10 steps ahead" Batman with the creation and destruction of the sonar device. Yes, he's still learning- but just because he's learning that doesn't make him a rookie. Not a veteran, but not a rookie either.

It's been talked about a lot how the timeline in the movies is somewhat elastic, especially between Begins and TDK. Taking a literal approach and tallying up the amount of time spent in the cowl kind of misses the larger picture of how it's portrayed.

Begins- It's in the damn title, he's a beginner.
TDK- Settled in his role, in his prime. He's Batmanning pretty hard here.
TDKR- Past his prime, out of retirement etc.

 

[Penguin]

Just wanna throw this in here about Batfleck. Thanks to Kane for the gifs.

He looks GREAT here as Bruce, great expression.

And im really interested in this Batman scene, more than anything else in this movie.

But is he breaking this dudes neck here??

Affleck is in perfect shape for the role. I think he looks a lot like Bruce, especially how his chin and facial structure is.

You know, it looks like he does snap his neck.

 

[shauner111]

I have a feeling they're going to make Batman a killer in this. Like Keaton. And by 'killer', i mean intentionally killing enemies so he can win a fight, when he's not branding them, torturing them. The first time my radar went off was when i saw the teaser and the batwing was shooting people on the streets. Now it looks like Batman is breaking a dudes neck.

 

[The Joker]

The guy is an actor who doesn't take any half measures. He does thoroughly research his roles. It was always evident where he got that inspiration for the Bat growl from.

Anyway with regards to TDK specifically, Heath Ledger did such a transcendent job on The Joker. It's a performance that goes beyond mere comic book lore. Though some people use him to bash on Bale even more which I've never liked. My favourite scene from that movie was with both Ledger and Bale together in the interrogation scene. That's Bale at his Batman best and in the movie where people rip into Bale's voice the most.

I'd say Bale's Batman at his best is the Prewitt building scene. For a start he sees right through the Joker's set up. "It's not that simple, with the Joker it never is". Then he goes in like a boss and single handedly takes out two SWAT teams, Joker's men, and saves all the hostages, too.

That's Batman at his best. At his prime. No other Batman scene in any movie has shown Batman as impressive as that.

Rookie my ass

 

[Visceral]

There is a belief that in the beginning of the TDKR film that Bruce Wayne's goatee is some homage to Oliver Queen. I dont agree with this. I believe that the hero has literally become the villain. Wayne has used the Dent act for 8 years to completely control Gotham. I dont know if he went out as batman in those 8 years but if he did it wasn't to stop the mob, because there was no mob. There would only be super-villains.

Ras and Bruce exist in an ongoing cycle and archetype. Father and son, mentor and student, warlord and rebel. They exist like Isis and the Taliban, Rwanda and Uganda. These rival gangs that constantly usurp each other. The story of Ra's fleshed out, he was once a military man who rebelled against a local warlord. He then became the warlord, or the leader of a secret society that controlled the world. Batman usurped him, and now Bane is the rebel, fighting Batman's control of the city.

Bruce breaks the cycle when he realizes no rule is forever, and hands the power to robin, who usurps banes control of the city. He trusts in other individuals ability to save the world.

Though the films are not perfectly realistic there are guiding principles in the film that are true of real world struggles between good and evil.

In relation to other action heroes most notably 007. After saving the world twice, Bond would have scars, and he would probably promote to a position of power. Its why all bond villains are dark versions of the main character. Alec Trevelyan, and Silva from Skyfall, even Blofeld was a dark version of M. All these guys are trying to save the world but disagreeing on how to do it. Its like Watchmen in many ways.

Anywats just thinking out loud on a thursday morning.

 

[Malicked]

I'd say Bale's Batman at his best is the Prewitt building scene. For a start he sees right through the Joker's set up. "It's not that simple, with the Joker it never is". Then he goes in like a boss and single handedly takes out two SWAT teams, Joker's men, and saves all the hostages, too.

That's Batman at his best. At his prime. No other Batman scene in any movie has shown Batman as impressive as that.

Rookie my ass

Oh yeah, that's 'action Batman' at his very best. Probably still my favourite Batman combat scene of the trilogy. Some people rip into TDK as not being a 'Batman movie' but I've always dismissed that suggestion. As far as the pure Baleman 'performance' goes, I thought he showed great energy in that scene. The Joker ends up stealing that scene because he really does get to Batman's head but as far as 'vengeful' Batman goes, with all the rage, that to me was the best portrayal of that interpretation of the character yet. Critics will say that Bale phoned in his voice in certain scenes ie the trigger scene in TDKR but IMO there was nothing wrong in that interrogation scene alone. It was perfect Batman. Some fans want the 'detective Batman' but I really like this raging Batman too. Contorted intensity spilling into rage, it was awesome to see Batman lose his ***** to The Joker like that. WHERE ARE THEY? t:

 

[redfirebird2008]

I have a feeling they're going to make Batman a killer in this. Like Keaton. And by 'killer', i mean intentionally killing enemies so he can win a fight, when he's not branding them, torturing them. The first time my radar went off was when i saw the teaser and the batwing was shooting people on the streets. Now it looks like Batman is breaking a dudes neck.

If they do, the fanboys better get used to it fast because this version of Batman is going to be around for quite awhile. There's BvS, SS, JLA1, JLA2, The Batman, and probably many more after that...

 

[hafizbat]

I'd say Bale's Batman at his best is the Prewitt building scene. For a start he sees right through the Joker's set up. "It's not that simple, with the Joker it never is". Then he goes in like a boss and single handedly takes out two SWAT teams, Joker's men, and saves all the hostages, too.

That's Batman at his best. At his prime. No other Batman scene in any movie has shown Batman as impressive as that.

Rookie my ass

The most "Batman" scene ever on film. I wouldn't be surprised if nothing ever tops it, even with Snyder/Affleck going for a very comic-accurate, flashy Batman.

 

[shauner111]

I doubt there's any more Batman after Justice League 2 but maybe that's just me.

 

[Snow Queen]

I doubt there's any more Batman after Justice League 2 but maybe that's just me.

Do you mean no more Batfleck or do you think WB will not use him anymore? I can definitely see the former possible, but the latter seems extremely unlikely to me considering how he prints money.