The Temple of Doomed Relationships

[Anita18]

I really don't understand playing games when you're in an established relationship. Even in the begining stages I didn't play games, I wouldn't just roll over and do whatever my girlfriend wanted, I was just straightforward with what I wanted and asked her to be the same. It's served us very well. We both had plenty of things going on in our lives when we started dating, so we weren't overly available to each other as it was, I communicated when I was available. I think playing the "don't pick up game" when you're married and/or living together is dangerous, you should pretty much know the other person's routine and be able to communicate when you're going somewhere. Now let's throw the "don't pick up the phone" game into the mix, all the sudden there are some times when you bf/gf/husband/wife isn't picking up the phone, this would probably lead to suspicion about where they are. You were just going to see Spider-Man 3 or to your fantasy baseball draft (sorry saw Knocked Up over the weekend), but your wife thinks you're now cheating because you wanted to play a little game and spice things up.

Playful teasing on the other hand is always fun, because it is playful and can't be seen as you hiding something.

My bf never picks up his phone for anybody. I'm used to it. But that's just how he is, so I don't expect him to pick up his phone just to chat. We do that online anyway.

But when we were living together, it was just better to have ourselves available by phone because you do have to coordinate real-life stuff. If he didn't pick up or call when he was gonna be late, I wouldn't assume that he was cheating - I'd assume he'd been in a terrible car accident. That's the kind of game you DON'T want to be playing with someone you love.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

SuperMike, I get where you're going most of the time, but I think you might have missed the mark on this one.

Work and travel schedules are crazy enough that missed phone calls are going to happen naturally. Purposely "missing" calls seems silly, at least to me.

Personally, I don't mind my wife knowing that she's missed and appreciated back home. Like I mentioned previously, playing those games with her would only make her feel awful about being away.

Yeah but when you have a 12-hr time zone difference, when someone wants to call and you don't pick up and you know there's a short window of doing it, that makes you a *****ebag.

I mean, God forbid what if she mostly wants to talk to the kids and not you?? You're going to deny her that for the sake of keeping sparks? I'd say that'd be absolutely counterproductive.

I ain't letting this one go.

HELL NO.

I don’t have anywhere close to the luxury of ignorance on this one.
I’ve been part of a massive situation, where many guys I was emotionally close enough to, to hear their relationship laments, successes and current issues, to know exactly what male neediness does to men who are away a long time. 18 months in Iraq, 2004-2005.

The more who went out of their way to stay in touch, the more they used the internet cafe to web chat, and webcam, etc... The more undying love confessions, etc... Then the more likely hood that the girl back home was polishing some other guys knob while her husband was fighting for his country and life every day.

Seen way too much of the world to have the luxury of bliss on this one. I’ve seen how devastating it is to these guys when their wives cheat on them, in spite of their great traditional efforts to maintain the relationship while away. One guy I know raised a kid for 3 years, he thought he fathered him on leave.

Then I’ve also seen the rewards the unavailable guys with loyalty and devotion. Ain’t no justice in relationships.

Step into my shoes for a while, walk the paths I have, and you will see the absolute darkest sides of human nature, both male and female.
When you’re a guy who has had unprotected sex with the wives of multiple married guys, and you know they were married for years and have kids, you realize that time together and children does not make a man immune.

I’ve had a good laugh over a picture text of undying love confession, that was sent to one of these wives while I was having unprotected sex with her. –Therefor I cannot help but know that being married with kids is no immunity for these men.

Start allowing those attraction killers of: over eagerness to please, constant confessions of undying love easily offered and on a silver platter, and saying you needs her and are lost without her is the best way to send her onto the couch of another man.

Worst case scenario: If someone is doing something, like cheating, because of distance, or what have you, then no 'games' will save that marriage. In fact it was probably over long before anything ever went down.

But what killed it in the first place? What sent her into the arms of another man?

Chances are pretty good it was those supplicating attraction killers I put in bold above, or variants of them.

If it is too far gone, then having some game and swagger cannot fix the marriage, but keeping some amount of it can help keep it from going south in the first place, at least if attraction killers would be to blame as they often are.

Now that does not make a marriage unbreakable, you can always go through divorce for being a cheating bastard too.

Even better than the advice of avoiding attraction killers, is have a solid pre-nup.

 

[Erzengel]

The more who went out of their way to stay in touch, the more they used the internet cafe to web chat, and webcam, etc... The more undying love confessions, etc... Then the more likely hood that the girl back home was polishing some other guys knob while her husband was fighting for his country and life every day.

Seen way too much of the world to have the luxury of bliss on this one. I’ve seen how devastating it is to these guys when their wives cheat on them, in spite of their great traditional efforts to maintain the relationship while away. One guy I know raised a kid for 3 years, he thought he fathered him on leave.

Then I’ve also seen the rewards the unavailable guys with loyalty and devotion. Ain’t no justice in relationships.

Step into my shoes for a while, walk the paths I have, and you will see the absolute darkest sides of human nature, both male and female.
When you’re a guy who has had unprotected sex with the wives of multiple married guys, and you know they were married for years and have kids, you realize that time together and children does not make a man immune.

I’ve had a good laugh over a picture text of undying love confession, that was sent to one of these wives while I was having unprotected sex with her. –Therefor I cannot help but know that being married with kids is no immunity for these men.

Start allowing those attraction killers of: over eagerness to please, constant confessions of undying love easily offered and on a silver platter, and saying you needs her and are lost without her is the best way to send her onto the couch of another man.

Maybe most of those girls were just ****es.

 

[Anita18]

Mike, I understand where you're coming from, but it depends on the couple and I don't think you can give advice willy nilly that ignores what sort of couple they are.

I'm not saying that guys in LDRs should be calling their gf/wives every day for hours telling them how much they need them. That IS needy and I'd wonder about their mental health. You need to keep your individuality.

As I've mentioned, my own bf is 300 miles away and we see each other every few weeks. That's obviously not nearly a big a deal as being deployed overseas, but I do know a little about LDRs.

He rarely calls me. He'll check in online every morning just to see how I am, and he'll say good night when he can. He never tells me he loves me unless he can say it in person. He doesn't write poems for me or any of that cheesy stuff. But I know he cares about me, that's the important part. He doesn't ignore me when I try to contact him.

I think that's a good balance between being needy and being a *****ebag.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

Maybe most of those girls were just ****es.

Call them what you want, but that behavior is extremely common.

When you see something often enough you cannot write it up to a "rare event".

Do you think you can be sure enough that a girl is not a ****e that you could get away with; over eagerness to please, constant confessions of undying love easily offered and on a silver platter, and saying you need her and are lost without her?

 

[amazingfantasy15]

With that little bout of sarcasm, it sounds like you do know some of the aspects of my relationship, because there are people on this forum who are 'involved' in it, and it sounds like you are jealous, because of it's unique nature and what that will entail in the future if we make it.

I know nothing of your relationship other than the past few pages of ranting you've done. All I know is you sound like every other person who's come to this thread in the past they're looking for people to agree with their line of thinking and if you don't agree with them, then it's the same old "our relationship is unique, you don't know what it's like, so don't talk like you know anything about it". I offered my advice on the information I was given and I stand by it.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Call them what you want, but that behavior is extremely common.

When you see something often enough you cannot write it up to a "rare event".

Do you think you can be sure enough that a girl is not a ****e that you could get away with; over eagerness to please, constant confessions of undying love easily offered and on a silver platter, and saying you need her and are lost without her?

I think what you find is the type of person you attract by constantly being disrespectful towards women are mostly ****es. Most of these wives you've slept with probably slept with more than just you.

 

[Erzengel]

So you were in the military Mike. Marines or Army?

That being said, a lot of young couples who get involved and one is in the military and is deployed, it takes it's toll on a relationship even a married one. And these young girls left behind aren't equipped or capable of handling a relationship of being alone for 6 months or even a year. So I'm not surprised that some of them cheat. I don't agree with it but I know it's common place.

That being said. I also know of a lot of service men who leave their wives and children while they are living at Bases. They even have private housing for these women whose husbands abandoned them.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

Mike, I understand where you're coming from, but it depends on the couple and I don't think you can give advice willy nilly that ignores what sort of couple they are.

I'm not saying that guys in LDRs should be calling their gf/wives every day for hours telling them how much they need them. That IS needy and I'd wonder about their mental health. You need to keep your individuality.

As I've mentioned, my own bf is 300 miles away and we see each other every few weeks. That's obviously not nearly a big a deal as being deployed overseas, but I do know a little about LDRs.

He rarely calls me. He'll check in online every morning just to see how I am, and he'll say good night when he can. He never tells me he loves me unless he can say it in person. He doesn't write poems for me or any of that cheesy stuff. But I know he cares about me, that's the important part. He doesn't ignore me when I try to contact him.

I think that's a good balance between being needy and being a *****ebag.

You just said:

My bf never picks up his phone for anybody. I'm used to it. But that's just how he is, so I don't expect him to pick up his phone just to chat. We do that online anyway.

Now do you see it?

What you ARE describing is a guy who has maintained at least some degree of game and swagger, intentional or not.

He isn't the type of guy intend to be hit with the rolled up newspaper that is so often my advice.

You're boyfriend is doing it right already.

When you describe that he avoids saying "I love you" unless he is there in person, and avoiding cheesy stuff like poems of love confession, then he IS doing it right.

 

[Anita18]

War sucks. I think we've determined that much.

 

[Anita18]

You just said:

Now do you see it?

What you ARE describing is a guy who has maintained at least some degree of game and swagger, intentional or not.

He isn't the type of guy intend to be hit with the rolled up newspaper that is so often my advice.

You're boyfriend is doing it right already.

When you describe that he avoids saying "I love you" unless he is there in person, and avoiding cheesy stuff like poems of love confession, then he IS doing it right.

But he isn't playing games with me in particular. He picks up his phone for NO ONE.

Your advice is purposeful, and that makes all the difference.

And if you saw my bf and talked to him, you wouldn't exactly consider him to have swagger. I'm aware that if I want something from him, all I have to do is ask. But I RESPECT him, so I keep that to a minimum.

Playing games means you ultimately don't respect the other person, you're only thinking of yourself. And IMO a successful relationship is built on respect at the very least.

I do understand that some couples like to continue playing the "hard to get" game, but at least there is respect and understanding as to what's going on.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

So you were in the military Mike. Marines or Army?

That being said, a lot of young couples who get involved and one is in the military and is deployed, it takes it's toll on a relationship even a married one. And these young girls left behind aren't equipped or capable of handling a relationship of being alone for 6 months or even a year. So I'm not surprised that some of them cheat. I don't agree with it but I know it's common place.

That being said. I also know of a lot of service men who leave their wives and children while they are living at Bases. They even have private housing for these women whose husbands abandoned them.

Army, and you?

Many of the guys I knew were in the mid 20's already, and some of them had been married for years. Sure enough the younger ones had the worst go at it, but the more mature ones had problems too.

The only consistent pattern I could see, looking back on all of it, among those guys who were getting cheated on was the supplicating behavior, being way too available, and literally losing for trying too hard.

I observed some situations where the relationships did not fail, even though those were a rarity but then there was a pattern there to.

Sure it had to do with the girls (obviously its not an ignorable factor) but what I saw was a stark contrast in the behavior of the men themselves too.

The smartest of us stayed single.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

So you were in the military Mike. Marines or Army?

That being said, a lot of young couples who get involved and one is in the military and is deployed, it takes it's toll on a relationship even a married one. And these young girls left behind aren't equipped or capable of handling a relationship of being alone for 6 months or even a year. So I'm not surprised that some of them cheat. I don't agree with it but I know it's common place.

That being said. I also know of a lot of service men who leave their wives and children while they are living at Bases. They even have private housing for these women whose husbands abandoned them.

This I totally agree with, I respect the sacrifice people in the military make for their country. I don't respect them for getting marrying when they know they'll be deployed to the other side of the world for 6 months to a year. I don't think anyone should get married in their late teens/early 20s, you're still finding out who you are during that time of your life, still growing up.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I know nothing of your relationship other than the past few pages of ranting you've done. All I know is you sound like every other person who's come to this thread in the past they're looking for people to agree with their line of thinking and if you don't agree with them, then it's the same old "our relationship is unique, you don't know what it's like, so don't talk like you know anything about it". I offered my advice on the information I was given and I stand by it.

aye, i went back and edited my post, and said as much, that you can only go by what I said here.
Anyway, this was the first time in a long time I got jealous over something, and I did feel like there was a bit of a double standard here to an extent, possibly, going by what has happened before.
I have had absolute trust in her, it was just that thing with the you-know-watch made me think it was a signal she was sending me that it was over, and she was seeing this other guy behind my back, my mind was doing cartwheels over it last night.

 

[SpideyVille]

So you were in the military Mike. Marines or Army?

That being said, a lot of young couples who get involved and one is in the military and is deployed, it takes it's toll on a relationship even a married one. And these young girls left behind aren't equipped or capable of handling a relationship of being alone for 6 months or even a year. So I'm not surprised that some of them cheat. I don't agree with it but I know it's common place.

That being said. I also know of a lot of service men who leave their wives and children while they are living at Bases. They even have private housing for these women whose husbands abandoned them.

My sister was in the Marines and got married with another guy that was in the Marine and they ended up getting married and she moved in with him and his mom in California. My sister was done with her service but he got sent to Iraq. Less than a year later she ended up leaving and divorcing him while he was still stationed over there because she had met some guy at the gym (who she ended up marrying, having two kids with, and ultimately divorcing).

I was always upset at her because they seemed like the perfect couple and he was a really cool guy the few times that we met him. But it wasn't until afterward that we found out he was abusive, paranoid and drank a lot of heavy alcohol. I've also heard that plenty of guys over there find their own share of action while they're stationed out there. Like you said, it may not be right but it's very common.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

But he isn't playing games with me in particular. He picks up his phone for NO ONE.

Your advice is purposeful, and that makes all the difference.

And if you saw my bf and talked to him, you wouldn't exactly consider him to have swagger. I'm aware that if I want something from him, all I have to do is ask. But I RESPECT him, so I keep that to a minimum.

Playing games means you ultimately don't respect the other person, you're only thinking of yourself. And IMO a successful relationship is built on respect at the very least.

I do understand that some couples like to continue playing the "hard to get" game, but at least there is respect and understanding as to what's going on.

Doing it by accident, or being methodical, makes no difference in effect.

I don't care if doing it on prupose is selfish.

I've been saying for a long time most guys need to be a lot more selfish.

 

[Erzengel]

Army, and you?

Many of the guys I knew were in the mid 20's already, and some of them had been married for years. Sure enough the younger ones had the worst go at it, but the more mature ones had problems too.

The only consistent pattern I could see, looking back on all of it, among those guys who were getting cheated on was the supplicating behavior, being way too available, and literally losing for trying too hard.

I observed some situations where the relationships did not fail, even though those were a rarity but then there was a pattern there to.

Sure it had to do with the girls (obviously its not an ignorable factor) but what I saw was a stark contrast in the behavior of the men themselves too.

The smartest of us stayed single.

I'm the son of Military, not Military although I took the physical but decided to go into the Private Sector instead.

I understand the relationships that you witnessed whether those that succeeded and failed were things that occurred in your circles. And obviously you went through a divorce which also effected the way you handle and view relationships.

That being said, those are your experiences and your observations that have defined you.

Many of us haven't experienced that. A lot of us haven't been cheated on because we didn't always have the upper hand. GF/BFs didn't leave us because we made ourselves openly available.

Some of us broke up because the person wasn't the right one, or because of long distance and we were both at different schools and there wasn't a future or because the person just didn't "get" us.

And I'm not saying some of the things you mentioned don't happen or aren't common place but there's a reason I talk in generalizations. A lot of the things I say on here, wouldn't work with someone who's socially inept. But would would work for someone whose balls finally descended.

Don't get me wrong, I truly think that playing hard to get works on certain girls. It's worked for me. But I know they don't work on every girl which is why I always believe in calling a mental audible to change up your "game" for the lack of better word when dealing with people.

Just trying to say that sweeping broad generalizations doesn't work for everyone.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I think what you find is the type of person you attract by constantly being disrespectful towards women are mostly ****es. Most of these wives you've slept with probably slept with more than just you.

So we have respectful men, who honor and adore their wives, whos wives are cheating on them all over town with disrespectful men.

 

[LOBO3315a]

My bf never picks up his phone for anybody. I'm used to it. But that's just how he is, so I don't expect him to pick up his phone just to chat. We do that online anyway.

But when we were living together, it was just better to have ourselves available by phone because you do have to coordinate real-life stuff. If he didn't pick up or call when he was gonna be late, I wouldn't assume that he was cheating - I'd assume he'd been in a terrible car accident. That's the kind of game you DON'T want to be playing with someone you love.

Funny, one of the last things that kind of was the straw that broke the camel's back in my marriage was something like this.

My X-wife went out one night to hang out with a friend of her's She says she told me 3 times she wouldn't be back home that evening. I never heard her say anything, so I assumed she would be back.

When she didn't come back that evening, I was concerned, but didn't have a way to contact her. When her mom called the next day to ask where she was, I told her I didn't know, and didn't know how to get a hold of her. Same thing when her sister called a few hours later. It was suggested that I call the police, and make a missing person's report. All I could think of was something bad happened, and they got stranded on the side of the road, or in a car accident, etc. She finally showed up, just as the police were leaving, so I cancelled the missing person's report.

However, guess who her new husband is? Yep, the guy she was hanging out with that evening......But she wasn't cheating!

 

[steintym]

I ain't letting this one go.

HELL NO.

I don’t have anywhere close to the luxury of ignorance on this one.
I’ve been part of a massive situation, where many guys I was emotionally close enough to, to hear their relationship laments, successes and current issues, to know exactly what male neediness does to men who are away a long time. 18 months in Iraq, 2004-2005.

The more who went out of their way to stay in touch, the more they used the internet cafe to web chat, and webcam, etc... The more undying love confessions, etc... Then the more likely hood that the girl back home was polishing some other guys knob while her husband was fighting for his country and life every day.

Seen way too much of the world to have the luxury of bliss on this one. I’ve seen how devastating it is to these guys when their wives cheat on them, in spite of their great traditional efforts to maintain the relationship while away. One guy I know raised a kid for 3 years, he thought he fathered him on leave.

Then I’ve also seen the rewards the unavailable guys with loyalty and devotion. Ain’t no justice in relationships.

Step into my shoes for a while, walk the paths I have, and you will see the absolute darkest sides of human nature, both male and female.
When you’re a guy who has had unprotected sex with the wives of multiple married guys, and you know they were married for years and have kids, you realize that time together and children does not make a man immune.

I’ve had a good laugh over a picture text of undying love confession, that was sent to one of these wives while I was having unprotected sex with her. –Therefor I cannot help but know that being married with kids is no immunity for these men.

Start allowing those attraction killers of: over eagerness to please, constant confessions of undying love easily offered and on a silver platter, and saying you needs her and are lost without her is the best way to send her onto the couch of another man.

Fair enough, to each their own. I guess everyone needs to know what makes their relationship work.

Personally, I prefer to stay away from silly mind games. Just not something I'm into at this point in my life.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

Funny, one of the last things that kind of was the straw that broke the camel's back in my marriage was something like this.

My X-wife went out one night to hang out with a friend of her's She says she told me 3 times she wouldn't be back home that evening. I never heard her say anything, so I assumed she would be back.

When she didn't come back that evening, I was concerned, but didn't have a way to contact her. When her mom called the next day to ask where she was, I told her I didn't know, and didn't know how to get a hold of her. Same thing when her sister called a few hours later. It was suggested that I call the police, and make a missing person's report. All I could think of was something bad happened, and they got stranded on the side of the road, or in a car accident, etc. She finally showed up, just as the police were leaving, so I cancelled the missing person's report.

However, guess who her new husband is? Yep, the guy she was hanging out with that evening......But she wasn't cheating!

Yeah, I would not believe her for a second on that one either.

You know more than most here, how being married with kids is no special form of relationship immunity, and it looks like you were on the very painful end of it.

Was it a shock as in something you never saw coming?

I ask as my marriage was not a shock to anyone, I lawyered up first actually.

My first marriage lasted less than 3 years, and only lasted 2.5 because I knocked up my Ex about 3 months into our marriage, and we were staying together trying to make it work for sake of our son.

I've seen no evidence she ever cheated, and to her credit she was not that type of woman, it was just one of those situations two people living together despise eachother and its obvious to everyone.

I did cheat on her, but it was not the cause of the breakup, the reverse really, the cheating was a symptom of what was causing the breakup.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

My sister was in the Marines and got married with another guy that was in the Marine and they ended up getting married and she moved in with him and his mom in California. My sister was done with her service but he got sent to Iraq. Less than a year later she ended up leaving and divorcing him while he was still stationed over there because she had met some guy at the gym (who she ended up marrying, having two kids with, and ultimately divorcing).

I was always upset at her because they seemed like the perfect couple and he was a really cool guy the few times that we met him. But it wasn't until afterward that we found out he was abusive, paranoid and drank a lot of heavy alcohol. I've also heard that plenty of guys over there find their own share of action while they're stationed out there. Like you said, it may not be right but it's very common.

How did you find out about these things afterward? Is that what she told you?

 

[SpideyVille]

How did you find out about these things afterward? Is that what she told you?

Yeah. that's what she told my mom after everything happened. Back then we only used to hear from her once every few weeks. But after hearing what happened when she cheated on him, my mom was irate because like I said, everything seemed perfect between them. But my sister was young at the time. She was about 24 or 25 at the time and didn't really know what it was like being on her own on the other side of the country from the rest of us and she didn't want to say anything because she wanted to make it seem like she had everything under control..

 

[LOBO3315a]

Yeah, I would not believe her for a second on that one either.

You know more than most here, how being married with kids is no special form of relationship immunity, and it looks like you were on the very painful end of it.

Was it a shock as in something you never saw coming?

I ask as my marriage was not a shock to anyone, I lawyered up first actually.

My first marriage lasted less than 3 years, and only lasted 2.5 because I knocked up my Ex about 3 months into our marriage, and we were staying together trying to make it work for sake of our son.

I've seen no evidence she ever cheated, and to her credit she was not that type of woman, it was just one of those situations two people living together despise eachother and its obvious to everyone.

I did cheat on her, but it was not the cause of the breakup, the reverse really, the cheating was a symptom of what was causing the breakup.

Actually, I was in sort of the same boat. 3 years into the marriage, I decided I had made a huge mistake in marrying her. It went beyond just the normal things that most couples deal with. She was very irresponsible with money and her priories were way out of whack. To her, makeup and buying clothes were more important than paying rent. >.<

I will say that she grew up pretty fast after our son was born, but in all the wrong ways. She lost the spontaneity and free spirit attitude that had initially attracted me to her, and her bi-polar side started to emerge.

If I had it to do all over again, I would have bailed before I got her pregnant, and gotten 10 years of my life back. I don't regret my son 1 bit, but I do regret that she's his mom. Sooner or later she's going to turn on him, like she did on me.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

So we have respectful men, who honor and adore their wives, whos wives are cheating on them all over town with disrespectful men.

I think you'll find most of the time the wrong people get together.