The Thunderbolts* News and Discussion Thread

Fair point.
But, was anyone really asking for a Guardians of The Galaxy film before we got one?
Fantastic 4 and X-Men weren't under Disney during that period, for anyone to clamor for those two to join the MCU before Guardians. Things changed when Disney was offered to buy Fox. If all of those ips were under Disney from the get go, Guardians may not have been introduced in 2014 through the movies.
 
I saw this cereal box the other day and I didn't realize it has something on the back too, until I went back to see it again.
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Psylockolussus, my friend, the fact that Marvel decided to do a Thunderbolts movie has nothing to do with why they haven't reboot the X-Men yet.

The Marvel brand just isn't as strong as it once was that it could carry a character no matter how obscure they were in the comics. Had this come out during the MCU's peak, there's no doubt in my mind that it'd be doing a lot better box office wise.
 
Psylockolussus, my friend, the fact that Marvel decided to do a Thunderbolts movie has nothing to do with why they haven't reboot the X-Men yet.

The Marvel brand just isn't as strong as it once was that it could carry a character no matter how obscure they were in the comics. Had this come out during the MCU's peak, there's no doubt in my mind that it'd be doing a lot better box office wise.
What else they could have released this month, if they didn't make Thunderbolts movie? A sequel for BP3, DS2, Shang-Chi and X-Men reboot?

X-men is currently in development, and who knows what state the X-men reboot would have been right now, if they didn't decide to make movies for Eternals, Black Widow, Sam Wilson and Thunderbolts* first. Those movies being released first, are indeed factors why they haven't made a X-Men movie, because these Ips are under 1 company and Marvel Studios was/is preoccupied with other things, hence why we are still waiting for an actual reboot. Those movies won't affect X-Men if they aren't under the same company. They are since the Fox buyout was finalized.

As for Thunderbolts doing much better at the box office if it was released when they were peaking, well duh. I've said that in the past as well. But their lack of hindsight post Endgame is why they are no longer at their peak. Deadpool & Wolverine still earned more than a billion because thats something people wanted to see which I can't say to Thunderbolts.
 
What else they could have released this month, if they didn't make Thunderbolts movie? A sequel for BP3, DS2, Shang-Chi and X-Men reboot?

X-men is currently in development, and who knows what state the X-men reboot would have been right now, if they didn't decide to make movies for Eternals, Black Widow, Sam Wilson and Thunderbolts* first. Those movies being released first, are indeed factors why they haven't made a X-Men movie, because these Ips are under 1 company and Marvel Studios was/is preoccupied with other things, hence why we are still waiting for an actual reboot. Those movies won't affect X-Men if they aren't under the same company. They are since the Fox buyout was finalized.

As for Thunderbolts doing much better at the box office if it was released when they were peaking, well duh. I've said that in the past as well. But their lack of hindsight post Endgame is why they are no longer at their peak. Deadpool & Wolverine still earned more than a billion because thats something people wanted to see which I can't say to Thunderbolts.
I don't think we were ever going to get anything other than Thunderbolts, Fantastic Four, or Avengers 5 as the May 2025 release going off the projects they've announced over the last few years. Maybe they could've had Shang-Chi 2 ready had they fast tracked it.

The reasons why the X-Men haven't been rebooted yet were lingering legal issues from the Fox-Disney merger and the fact those other films you mentioned were further along in development, if not already filming. And since they were back in-house, they could afford to take their time with it unlike when Marvel and Sony made the original agreement to share Spider-Man and they had no choice to reshuffle their schedule since Sony wanted a new film asap.

Audiences don't know what they want. Many great movies never would've been made if it was just assumed nobody wanted them.
 
Just curious,
how long did it take Brave New World to reach $300 million? Because it looks like Thunderbolts is going to get there, QUICKER!
 
I am bored by this sentiment that all decisions need to be made so we can only get products that sell a billion dollars and have no other goal in mind. The foundation of the MCU was built on a 500 mil grossing Iron Man film, a 400 mil grossing Thor film, and a high 300s mil grossing Captain America film. Yeah, it all got exponentially more huge at Avengers, but the point remains not everything is going to be a billion dollar film. Phase 3 made everyone spoiled and drunk on the power of anyone can make a billion dollars. No, sometimes you need to build more stars, and that means settling for some lower grossers and trying to build those characters up. Like you did in Phase 1
 
I am bored by this sentiment that all decisions need to be made so we can only get products that sell a billion dollars and have no other goal in mind. The foundation of the MCU was built on a 500 mil grossing Iron Man film, a 400 mil grossing Thor film, and a high 300s mil grossing Captain America film. Yeah/., it all got exponentially more huge at Avengers, but the point remains not everything is going to be a billion dollar film. Phase 3 made everyone spoiled and drunk on the power of anyone can make a billion dollars. No, sometimes you need to build more stars, and that means settling for some lower grossers and trying to build those characters up. Like you did in Phase 1

Agreed in spirit, but those films were quite profitable during initial release. The question is will Thunderbolts* have lasting power long term? The film was excellent but it's future is uncertain. Also the current state of the MCU is winding down, not ramping up.

- Iron Man's budget was $140 million in 2008 and it grossed $585 million worldwide. With inflation by 2025 standards, that's around a $210 million budget now and roughly an $870 million worldwide gross. Very profitable. A clean slate with zero baggage.

- Thor's budget was $150 million in 2011 and it grossed $449 million worldwide. With inflation by 2025 standards, that's around a $215 million budget now and roughly a $640 million worldwide gross. Profitable as well.
 
Agreed in spirit, but those films were quite profitable during initial release. The question is will Thunderbolts* have lasting power long term? The film was excellent but it's future is uncertain. Also the current state of the MCU is winding down, not ramping up.

- Iron Man's budget was $140 million in 2008 and it grossed $585 million worldwide. With inflation by 2025 standards, that's around a $210 million budget now and roughly an $870 million worldwide gross. Very profitable. A clean slate with zero baggage.

- Thor's budget was $150 million in 2011 and it grossed $449 million worldwide. With inflation by 2025 standards, that's around a $215 million budget now and roughly a $640 million worldwide gross. Profitable as well.
Adjusted numbers don't really work. It's never 1:1 cause it's a different box office environment and you have to adjust the budget and marketing costs there as well. The point is that the MCU did a great job early on of elevating characters into stars. Now those characters are more or less fading out, and they need to be replaced. It's not easy to predict who is going to get over. Would anyone have had the GOTG or Ant-Man having trilogies? The only thing you can do is try and tell the stories you think are the best ones and try and build around them. If you're too afraid to showcase a Shang-Chi or a Thunderbolts because they didn't crack a billion dollars, then you haven't solved the problem. Characters like Captain America or Thor didn't even hit their strides until their 2nd or 3rd solo films.
 
Adjusted numbers don't really work. It's never 1:1 cause it's a different box office environment and you have to adjust the budget and marketing costs there as well. The point is that the MCU did a great job early on of elevating characters into stars. Now those characters are more or less fading out, and they need to be replaced. It's not easy to predict who is going to get over. Would anyone have had the GOTG or Ant-Man having trilogies? The only thing you can do is try and tell the stories you think are the best ones and try and build around them. If you're too afraid to showcase a Shang-Chi or a Thunderbolts because they didn't crack a billion dollars, then you haven't solved the problem. Characters like Captain America or Thor didn't even hit their strides until their 2nd or 3rd solo films.
I understand, I merely point out the distinction because I've seen people say online that the budget should have been lower, or on par with a phase 1 film, but relative to how you can stretch a dollar today vs 2008, the framework is important.

The climb is much steeper now than it was in the beginning, not just financially, but in terms of winning back a more cynical audience.

As I've said before, this is a leadership issue, a broader Disney issue. The perception of those things today vs. even pre-pandemic (never mind 2008) is night and day.
 
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I don't think we were ever going to get anything other than Thunderbolts, Fantastic Four, or Avengers 5 as the May 2025 release going off the projects they've announced over the last few years. Maybe they could've had Shang-Chi 2 ready had they fast tracked it.

The reasons why the X-Men haven't been rebooted yet were lingering legal issues from the Fox-Disney merger and the fact those other films you mentioned were further along in development, if not already filming. And since they were back in-house, they could afford to take their time with it unlike when Marvel and Sony made the original agreement to share Spider-Man and they had no choice to reshuffle their schedule since Sony wanted a new film asap.

Audiences don't know what they want. Many great movies never would've been made if it was just assumed nobody wanted them.
These projects are under the same company, for you to say a movie like Thunderbolts aren't making the wait longer for a new X-Men and even Fantastic 4 to come out.

I highly doubt they didn't bring up a X-Men movie and Fantastic 4 since 2017, when they were have meetings which movies to greenlit from 2018 and so on. We got a Deadpool & Wolverine movie before Thunderbolts and they surely could have released a new X-Men movie, if they wanted to.
 
These projects are under the same company, for you to say a movie like Thunderbolts aren't making the wait longer for a new X-Men and even Fantastic 4 to come out.

I highly doubt they didn't bring up a X-Men movie and Fantastic 4 since 2017, when they were have meetings which movies to greenlit from 2018 and so on. We got a Deadpool & Wolverine movie before Thunderbolts and they surely could have released a new X-Men movie, if they wanted to.
Feige himself has talked about the legal issues that persisted in regards to the Fantastic Four and X-Men even after the merger. Just for starters, its been reported that they couldn't begin any official development on those two until the Disney and Fox deal closed in 2019. There was without a doubt informal conversations had on how those characters would be incorporated but until the legal stuff was sorted out, their hands were tied.

In which case, why would they put things on hold when they could still make stuff like Cap 4 and Thunderbolts that wasn't legally encumbered in the mean time?
 
Feige himself has talked about the legal issues that persisted in regards to the Fantastic Four and X-Men even after the merger. Just for starters, its been reported that they couldn't begin any official development on those two until the Disney and Fox deal closed in 2019. There was without a doubt informal conversations had on how those characters would be incorporated but until the legal stuff was sorted out, their hands were tied.

In which case, why would they put things on hold when they could still make stuff like Cap 4 and Thunderbolts that wasn't legally encumbered in the mean time?
Like I said they were able to release Deadpool & Wolverine before Thunderbolts. They could have done that as well to Fantastic 4 and X-Men. Also, the Fantastic 4 reboot was actually announced before Brave New World and Thunderbolts in 2022, yet we are getting Fantastic 4 after those two.

All these MCU films factor to each other, because they are under the same franchise/company. In hindsight, a X-Men movie (reboot or with FoXverse cast) released in 2025 after Deadpool & Wolverine would perform a lot better at the box office than Brave New World and Thunderbolts.
 
Like I said they were able to release Deadpool & Wolverine before Thunderbolts. They could have done that as well to Fantastic 4 and X-Men. Also, the Fantastic 4 reboot was actually announced before Brave New World and Thunderbolts in 2022, yet we are getting Fantastic 4 after those two.

All these MCU films factor to each other, because they are under the same franchise/company. In hindsight, a X-Men movie (reboot or with FoXverse cast) released in 2025 after Deadpool & Wolverine would perform a lot better at the box office than Brave New World and Thunderbolts.
I'm not seeing how when those projects were announced is relevant? Feige has mentioned not even wanting to announce Fantastic Four when he did as they had nothing to show for it. That same announcement which also included Armor Wars and that project seems to be dead.

The last few years have really shown how fluid the release schedule is. I mean Brave New World was supposed to come out before Deadpool and Wolverine at one point, and had the actors and writers strikes never happened, I suspect that would've remained the case.
 
Like I said they were able to release Deadpool & Wolverine before Thunderbolts. They could have done that as well to Fantastic 4 and X-Men. Also, the Fantastic 4 reboot was actually announced before Brave New World and Thunderbolts in 2022, yet we are getting Fantastic 4 after those two.

All these MCU films factor to each other, because they are under the same franchise/company. In hindsight, a X-Men movie (reboot or with FoXverse cast) released in 2025 after Deadpool & Wolverine would perform a lot better at the box office than Brave New World and Thunderbolts.
Fantastic Four also had several setbacks. So they couldn't develop it until after the deal closed, but they also lost Jon Watts after he was supposed to direct. No doubt setting the project back to square one. Then they had a hard time nailing down a cast that was both who they wanted and in the right price range. See the ever revolving door of people they wanted for Reed. So yeah, they announced FF earlier. But Thunderbolts didn't have the same set of issues FF did.
 
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So only 35% are female for thunderbolt, even with a prominent female lead played by a star actress…
 

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