The Dark Knight Rises The Tumbler Wreckage...

[protoctista]

Do you think the Tumbler wreckage should feature in the sequel to the Dark Knight?

In the chase sequence of TDK, Batman leaves the wreckage of the tumbler behind on the underpass as he continues his pursuit on the Batpod. The ensuing events involving Batman do not suggest he had time or the resources to put in place some kind of clear-up method, so...

Would the FBI get their hands on it? If so, would this help their investigation in tracking down Batman's identity? Would Batman attempt to break into wherever it's stored to retrive it? Or leak false information about this unique design's origin to deter investigators from linking it back to Wayne Manor (as a certain employee managed to).

If the FBI didn't get their hands on it - who did? collectors? I doubt Batman's squad-car-crushing behomoth would just be treated so idly as to be ignored by firstly authorities (It's evidence gold) and secondly the wider public.


Or should Nolan let this minor plot hole drop - and assume that no-one in the mainstream audience would have been geeky enough to have stopped to consider this perplexity in the ensuing mayhem?

 

[Batman137]

It Self Destructed ?

 

[Rezzo]

It Self Destructed ?

Yes, it self destructed.

 

[FaT_tONle]

It's a movie... man talk about over analyzing on these threads...

 

[Rezzo]

It's a movie...

For some it's obviously not.

 

[protoctista]

I'd like to see a self destruct mechanism powerful to leave no trace. Even body parts were recovered from the collapse of the WTC. Car crashes leave a shell of a car. Jeeps hit by cruise missiles still have recognisable debris. It's quite obvious watching the self destruct explosion in TDK that some considerable evidence is going to be left behind.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Do you think the Tumbler wreckage should feature in the sequel to the Dark Knight?

In the chase sequence of TDK, Batman leaves the wreckage of the tumbler behind on the underpass as he continues his pursuit on the Batpod. The ensuing events involving Batman do not suggest he had time or the resources to put in place some kind of clear-up method, so...

Would the FBI get their hands on it? If so, would this help their investigation in tracking down Batman's identity? Would Batman attempt to break into wherever it's stored to retrive it? Or leak false information about this unique design's origin to deter investigators from linking it back to Wayne Manor (as a certain employee managed to).

If the FBI didn't get their hands on it - who did? collectors? I doubt Batman's squad-car-crushing behomoth would just be treated so idly as to be ignored by firstly authorities (It's evidence gold) and secondly the wider public.


Or should Nolan let this minor plot hole drop - and assume that no-one in the mainstream audience would have been geeky enough to have stopped to consider this perplexity in the ensuing mayhem?

Yeah...

I'm gonna go with this one!

 

[Melkay]

^ Yeah, me too. Even if they did get their hands in some severely damaged car parts, they are unique and untraceable. In other words, they're useless.

 

[Zephyr Alexian]

Or should Nolan let this minor plot hole drop

Not really a minor plot hole. The vehicle was destroyed and there's no way to tell who witnessed this. Under you line of reasoning, if anything was recovered, how are you going to trace it back to Wayne?

We all witnessed how he went about purchasing equipment for his suit in an evasive way. I'm sure that Fox's prototype isn't even known about by a lot of people. It was rejected after all, so this is a moot point.

 

[Jorriss]

Do people truthfully believe the FBI cares at all who Batman is?

 

[JaD]

I think we're just assuming that Wayne Industries is the logo on some of the parts of the Tumbler then.

 

[kid dropper]

it would be a good logical plot point. it reminds mee of in x2, where a major catalyst for the plot was them getting government heat because sattelite photos uncovered their underground jet. i really appreciated that, it made sense.

 

[Milkman95]

It Self Destructed, end of story.

 

[Ronny Shade]

The terrorists should find it in the desert and try to sell it back to Jeff Bridges.

 

[Two-Face]

The terrorists should find it in the desert and try to sell it back to Jeff Bridges.

You're thinking wrong movie.t:

 

[Ronny Shade]

Jeff Bridges and Jeff Daniels should team up and do a movie called "JEFFTONIC" Where they play a country band.

 

[protoctista]

^ Yeah, me too. Even if they did get their hands in some severely damaged car parts, they are unique and untraceable. In other words, they're useless.

The FBI painstakingly extracted all debris from the plane that hit the pentagon, and what use was that? Of course, if you believe there WAS no plane that hit the pentagon... I can't help you. There's no way that anything but a sloppy half-arsed investigation would fail to recover the debris, useful or not. So its pretty much garunteed that the 'if' in your sentence is void.

"Unique" - well that's useful in one sense. It would narrow the investigation down to either someone incredibly rich - or an organisation with resources enough to have manufactured complicated arms mechanisms... that's some quite serious narrowing down.

"Untraceable" - same with the above if true. But would the parts be truly untraceable? Forensics can trace fragments of a bullet to the gun that fired it - without difficulty. By the same token, surely a forensics team can examine the parts to discover that they are machine manufactured, and the methods used to machine them. They can narrow it's origin down to an american manufacturer or a manufacturer abroad. That's significant evidence. Also, it's quite possible that certain elements of the machine's mechanism - i.e. the hydraulics, could lead to certain areas of engineering pioneering, narrowing the investigation into particular university graduates and pioneers in the field.

Both of these things would lead to Wayne Enterprises.

At the very least, this would be a conceivable, logical plot device.

It Self Destructed, end of story.

Again, no self-destruct mechanism would leave no trace. It's tremendously careless of any secret operative to leave such revealing aparatus lying around the scene of a crime.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Again, no self-destruct mechanism would leave no trace. It's tremendously careless of any secret operative to leave such revealing aparatus lying around the scene of a crime.

Kryptonian Tech

 

[BatJeff7786]

The terrorists should find it in the desert and try to sell it back to Jeff Bridges.

That will not stand, Man...that agression will not stand.

 

[spiderral]

It just self destructed but a new Tumbler design would be cool for the next film, or we could just have the Bat-Pod in the sequel, not boats or helicopters or even planes yet.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Batplane FTW

 

[Melkay]

The FBI painstakingly extracted all debris from the plane that hit the pentagon, and what use was that?

You tell me. What use was that?

Of course, if you believe there WAS no plane that hit the pentagon... I can't help you.

I don't believe. Maybe you do believe it... but that's exactly what it is, a belief. I'd love to support it with evidence, but not even the authorities can do that. MAYBE a plane hit it, but probably not. The absense of evidence always must be considered as the evidence of absense. If you don't believe that, I can't help you.

But you could always say Santa exists .

There's no way that anything but a sloppy half-arsed investigation would fail to recover the debris, useful or not. So its pretty much garunteed that the 'if' in your sentence is void.

That's not true. Let's go back to 9/11. They recovered the passport of one of the terrorist pilots but they failed to recover the black boxes of the plane. The black boxes, almost indestructible items that are made to be recovered.
Even if they recover parts of it, what would it be? The chasis? Parts of the electronics? And why would they do that? To catch the Batman? They are not even trying to catch him, Gordon is protecting him. In TDK, Batman is three times in places with heavy police presence (the Bank, the apartment with the dead cops and the roof of the building in front of the hostages) and none of times they even attempted to arrest him.
And even if they did, the Tumbler exploded in the middle of a very complicated crisis, the Joker being caught, the DA being kidnapped and the MCU being blown up. No one was there to pick the wreckage because every policeman in town maybe had more urgent things to do. And what about the civilians who watched Batman destroy the Tumbler? What prevented them from eventually stealing every part left of the vehicle. Gotham is a pretty corrupt city, they don't have to give it back to the police. Yeah, some of the big ones the FBI can retrieve... (the chasis, etc.) but all of the wreckage? No.

"Unique" - well that's useful in one sense. It would narrow the investigation down to either someone incredibly rich - or an organisation with resources enough to have manufactured complicated arms mechanisms... that's some quite serious narrowing down.

Well, I see now that the intelligence of the GPD is variable. They're efficient and smart enough to recover the wreckage but not smart enough to realize that the Batmobile is a heavy piece of machinery, especially designed for what is doing, and a VERY expensive vehicle.
I think you're using their intelligence to serve your argument. Everything you say they can find out by just looking the damn thing on the tv news.

"Untraceable" - same with the above if true. But would the parts be truly untraceable? Forensics can trace fragments of a bullet to the gun that fired it - without difficulty. By the same token, surely a forensics team can examine the parts to discover that they are machine manufactured, and the methods used to machine them.

Not really when they're privately funded. Any decent corporation would prevent their technology and their industrial process from leaking to the competition, especially if the product hasn't been launched into market, and in the case of a military project... well, it should be secret enough.

Going back to 9/11, after the terrorist attack, American Airlines kept all the technology used in their Boeings from being disclosed to the public. Of course, such information would be available to the authorities, but that's it. Not even Wayne Industries executives are aware of the technology, and if they did, they wouldn't confess. There's nothing to do.

They can narrow it's origin down to an american manufacturer or a manufacturer abroad. That's significant evidence.

No, they can't. And even if they could.... significant evidence? Significant how?

Also, it's quite possible that certain elements of the machine's mechanism - i.e. the hydraulics, could lead to certain areas of engineering pioneering, narrowing the investigation into particular university graduates and pioneers in the field.

Both of these things would lead to Wayne Enterprises.

False. Such kind of technology, gestated in universities, is usually public. No help there. They could only trace back the manufacturers if the vehicle was made industrially, but that's not the case. The Tumbler was a prototype. If the car equivalent of the Joker clothing... they can't trace it back because it's just one designer item.

To put it in other words, the Tumbler is custom-made.

At the very least, this would be a conceivable, logical plot device.

Let's say the police does retrieve some parts and makes the investigation. It cannot shed any light on the manufacturer. It cannot give any results. Therefore, such investigation is IRRELEVANT to the story. They can have the procedure, but without results, the investigation doesn't have to be shown to us. This is not, by any means, a PLOT DEVICE.

Would it be LOGIC if either Fox or Bruce installed a self-destruct mechanism in a vehicle with parts that can be traced back to them? The answer is "No, it wouldn't be logic. It would be a cheap way of the police getting near to catching Batman." Conceivable? Of course it's conceivable. They being careless is a plausible plot point. But also a cheap and stupid one.

Sorry, no argument here.

 

[BatJeff7786]

You tell me. What use was that?



I don't believe. Maybe you do believe it... but that's exactly what it is, a belief. I'd love to support it with evidence, but not even the authorities can do that. MAYBE a plane hit it, but probably not. The absense of evidence always must be considered as the evidence of absense. If you don't believe that, I can't help you.

But you could always say Santa exists .



That's not true. Let's go back to 9/11. They recovered the passport of one of the terrorist pilots but they failed to recover the black boxes of the plane. The black boxes, almost indestructible items that are made to be recovered.
Even if they recover parts of it, what would it be? The chasis? Parts of the electronics? And why would they do that? To catch the Batman? They are not even trying to catch him, Gordon is protecting him. In TDK, Batman is three times in places with heavy police presence (the Bank, the apartment with the dead cops and the roof of the building in front of the hostages) and none of times they even attempted to arrest him.
And even if they did, the Tumbler exploded in the middle of a very complicated crisis, the Joker being caught, the DA being kidnapped and the MCU being blown up. No one was there to pick the wreckage because every policeman in town maybe had more urgent things to do. And what about the civilians who watched Batman destroy the Tumbler? What prevented them from eventually stealing every part left of the vehicle. Gotham is a pretty corrupt city, they don't have to give it back to the police. Yeah, some of the big ones the FBI can retrieve... (the chasis, etc.) but all of the wreckage? No.



Well, I see now that the intelligence of the GPD is variable. They're efficient and smart enough to recover the wreckage but not smart enough to realize that the Batmobile is a heavy piece of machinery, especially designed for what is doing, and a VERY expensive vehicle.
I think you're using their intelligence to serve your argument. Everything you say they can find out by just looking the damn thing on the tv news.



Not really when they're privately funded. Any decent corporation would prevent their technology and their industrial process from leaking to the competition, especially if the product hasn't been launched into market, and in the case of a military project... well, it should be secret enough.

Going back to 9/11, after the terrorist attack, American Airlines kept all the technology used in their Boeings from being disclosed to the public. Of course, such information would be available to the authorities, but that's it. Not even Wayne Industries executives are aware of the technology, and if they did, they wouldn't confess. There's nothing to do.



No, they can't. And even if they could.... significant evidence? Significant how?



False. Such kind of technology, gestated in universities, is usually public. No help there. They could only trace back the manufacturers if the vehicle was made industrially, but that's not the case. The Tumbler was a prototype. If the car equivalent of the Joker clothing... they can't trace it back because it's just one designer item.

To put it in other words, the Tumbler is custom-made.



Let's say the police does retrieve some parts and makes the investigation. It cannot shed any light on the manufacturer. It cannot give any results. Therefore, such investigation is IRRELEVANT to the story. They can have the procedure, but without results, the investigation doesn't have to be shown to us. This is not, by any means, a PLOT DEVICE.

Would it be LOGIC if either Fox or Bruce installed a self-destruct mechanism in a vehicle with parts that can be traced back to them? The answer is "No, it wouldn't be logic. It would be a cheap way of the police getting near to catching Batman." Conceivable? Of course it's conceivable. They being careless is a plausible plot point. But also a cheap and stupid one.

Sorry, no argument here.

Go for a walk with your dog or something man. Get out more.t:

 

[Anita18]

"Untraceable" - same with the above if true. But would the parts be truly untraceable? Forensics can trace fragments of a bullet to the gun that fired it - without difficulty. By the same token, surely a forensics team can examine the parts to discover that they are machine manufactured, and the methods used to machine them. They can narrow it's origin down to an american manufacturer or a manufacturer abroad. That's significant evidence. Also, it's quite possible that certain elements of the machine's mechanism - i.e. the hydraulics, could lead to certain areas of engineering pioneering, narrowing the investigation into particular university graduates and pioneers in the field.

A forensics team is able to trace a bullet back to the gun that fired it only if they have the gun to begin with, and because they know how that particular gun was manufactured. They need to compare it with something - you get nowhere if you only have a one-off.

From what we know, the Tumbler was only one of maaaaybe two prototypes. We know Wayne Enterprises has all of the records, and it's a safe bet that Lucius Fox will be locking them in a vault. If there are no public records of it being manufactured (especially if it's a secret prototype), even if they had pieces of it, they wouldn't necessarily know where it came from. And that car was definitely a one-of-a-kind. Even in real life, they had to build that thing from the ground up.

 

[Darkknight14]

This is really a thread? Ok sure, it might happen. I'm sure Nolan is sitting on vacation right now thinking up plausible plots such as "hmm...maybe...just mayyyyyyyyybe the dark knight sequel can feature THE FBI!!!! and they can find a piece of the tumbler in all the wreckage of all the other **** that blew up too, spend half an hour tracing it back to wayne tech, even though it's a prototype, and wayne burned all of the records of everything that could lead anything back to anyone, and then they could track batman down! that's a great movie! forget the riddler, deadshot, or any other possible villain, i think we have a winner on our hands!!!!!! Let's just call it Batman: CSI!!!"

stop over analyzing it. it blew up. big time. im sure there are parts around. but would batman allow any of his stuff to be traced back to him in the comics? no. would he allow it in the movies? not anymore, not since good old what's his face tried to oust him on GCN. let's talk plausible plot points.