BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 4

[JaD]

My only problem with the Senate hearing is that Superman didn't get to say a single word. I was hoping to see him defend himself and some clever and strong dialogue at play.

Instead, the big dramatic high point of the scene focused on the senator noticing the jar that could have come later on after we had gotten something from Supes. But it immediately scrapped the idea of a strong dialogue driven scene with Superman involved standing in front of Congress and instead just jumped to a large explosion, with piss going all over the place I'm sure.

 

[DA_Champion]

My only problem with the Senate hearing is that Superman didn't get to say a single word. I was hoping to see him defend himself and some clever and strong dialogue at play.

Instead, the big dramatic high point of the scene focused on the senator noticing the jar that could have come later on after we had gotten something from Supes. But it immediately scrapped the idea of a strong dialogue driven scene with Superman involved standing in front of Congress and instead just jumped to a large explosion, with piss going all over the place I'm sure.

It's two movies now where Clark Kent gets very little dialogue.

 

[haephestus]

Also, now that I think about it, Wonder Woman is a lot like Faora. She is awesome in the moment, in the snapshot, but has no arc. I don't think it's a problem though.

I can't defend much of DoJ, but Wonder Woman had an arc of sorts. Wonder Woman had given up on humanity. Diana was on a purely selfish "mission" to retrieve a personal momento (i.e. a photo of her dead (?) lover). Diana was not interested in any of Lex's other wrongdoings or the possibility of conflict between Batman and Superman. But, when she learnt about Lex's plotting, saw the files on herself and others like her and witnessed Doomsday's attack on Metropolis, she resolved to once again embrace her heroic destiny, put on her armour and step-up to help save the day.

In doing so, she also sacrificed her "identity" as Diana Prince: Antiquities Dealer (or whatever she was) and possibly incurred the wrath of Hippolyta or the Amazons by revealing herself in such a public manner (although I guess that it's possible that Diana disappeared before any cameras showed up and that Lois agreed not to write about her role in defeating Doomsday).

So, she went from being selfish and wilfully blind to the evils of the world to being selfless and once again fighting for all of humanity. A decent enough arc given her minimal screen time.

 

[batfreakforever]

The story was awesome. Seen it twice now. Its now my favorite Batman film. I think fans are never really happy with anything and critical reviews are just plain bull with sound bites throughout the review and the general public could care less what anyone thinks and just go to a film. That's why the transformers and pirates movies get smashed in the reviews and still make lots of bank. To me the general public get the point of movies. Professional critics don't and most fans don't really know what they want and just follow other fans like sheep. Harsh but true. The Internet is a hot button to rant and rave and complain. (Which is what I'm doing too ) and Forums only consist of maybe 100 plus members and that's only a piss in the ocean of general movie going public.

 

[MrsKent26]

My only problem with the Senate hearing is that Superman didn't get to say a single word. I was hoping to see him defend himself and some clever and strong dialogue at play.

Instead, the big dramatic high point of the scene focused on the senator noticing the jar that could have come later on after we had gotten something from Supes. But it immediately scrapped the idea of a strong dialogue driven scene with Superman involved standing in front of Congress and instead just jumped to a large explosion, with piss going all over the place I'm sure.

Aww. I don't like the sound of that. Sounds like a real missed opportunity.

 

[DA_Champion]

I can't defend much of DoJ, but Wonder Woman had an arc of sorts. Wonder Woman had given up on humanity. Diana was on a purely selfish "mission" to retrieve a personal momento (i.e. a photo of her dead (?) lover). Diana was not interested in any of Lex's other wrongdoings or the possibility of conflict between Batman and Superman. But, when she learnt about Lex's plotting, saw the files on herself and others like her and witnessed Doomsday's attack on Metropolis, she resolved to once again embrace her heroic destiny, put on her armour and step-up to help save the day.

In doing so, she also sacrificed her "identity" as Diana Prince: Antiquities Dealer (or whatever she was) and possibly incurred the wrath of Hippolyta or the Amazons by revealing herself in such a public manner (although I guess that it's possible that Diana disappeared before any cameras showed up and that Lois agreed not to write about her role in defeating Doomsday).

So, she went from being selfish and wilfully blind to the evils of the world to being selfless and once again fighting for all of humanity. A decent enough arc given her minimal screen time.

A good rebuttal.

 

[matt47]

Aww. I don't like the sound of that. Sounds like a real missed opportunity.

Remember all of us talking about the senate hearing saying that we assumed we would get a wicked speech...?


I miss that...

 

[haephestus]

My only problem with the Senate hearing is that Superman didn't get to say a single word. I was hoping to see him defend himself and some clever and strong dialogue at play.

I agree. I thought we were going to get a scene with Superman being honest and vulnerable. Admitting that he'd made mistakes, but that he was still learning and that every day he was trying to use his powers to make up for the destruction and deaths in Metropolis by helping not just those who live in Metropolis, but the entire world.

Even my GA partner was surprised and disappointed that Superman never got a chance to "defend" himself in some way, whether at the hearing or in an interview with Lois Lane, an article written by Clark calling for people to be more empathetic with Superman or even just in a private conversation with Lois or Martha.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

I agree on the Senate hearing.

 

[MrsKent26]

Remember all of us talking about the senate hearing saying that we assumed we would get a wicked speech...?


I miss that...

Indeed. This whole concept of superman being a man of few words has been happening ever since SR and it's a disservice.

I agree that he should be a succinct individual ("A man of few words, but all the right ones."), but people seem to be clueless when writing for him and end up making him a virtual mute.

From what I hear, the senate scene is still a good one, but could have been much better.

 

[haephestus]

When Bruce woke up from that nightmare at his parents tomb was there a woman in bed with him? It kinda looked like there was but I'm not sure. Just wondering if anyone else caught that.

Yes. I think that was our glimpse of playboy Bruce.

Or maybe it was Mercy and that was how Batman cracked Lex's encryption and why Lex arranged for Mercy to die?

 

[matt47]

Indeed. This whole concept of superman being a man of few words has been happening ever since SR and it's a disservice.

I agree that he should be a succinct individual ("A man of few words, but all the right ones."), but people seem to be clueless when writing for him and end up making him a virtual mute.

From what I hear, the senate scene is still a good one, but could have been much better.

Can't be that great if there is a shot of Lex Luthor's piss in a cup!

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Yes. I think that was our glimpse of playboy Bruce.

Or maybe it was Mercy and that was how Batman cracked Lex's encryption and why Lex arranged for Mercy to die?

Interesting

 

[haephestus]

Did it bother anybody else that Superman did nothing to secure the Kryptonian artefacts?

Yes. For multiple reasons. First, I thought he would want to learn more about his heritage. Secondly, he had to realise that advanced alien technology was a potential source of problems for himself and everyone else on Earth, yet did nothing about it. Third, I thought they would have him take the ship to the Antartic as the start of his Fortress of Solitude.

 

[MrsKent26]

Can't be that great if there is a shot of Lex Luthor's piss in a cup!

lol, I'll get back to you on that. Does sound silly, but I can't say for sure just yet. Sounds like an odd thing to forgo stirring dialogue for though...

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Can't be that great if there is a shot of Lex Luthor's piss in a cup!

It does kind of show how ****ed in the head Lex is. t:

 

[haephestus]

how surprised were you guys with the explosion in the court?

Not surprised. I think they telegraphed it at little too much with Lex giving Wally the advanced looking wheelchair and by the fact that Lex never took his seat in the room, despite his apparent enthusiasm for being there.

But, it was much bigger than I expected.

 

[DA_Champion]

Yes. For multiple reasons. First, I thought he would want to learn more about his heritage. Secondly, he had to realise that advanced alien technology was a potential source of problems for himself and everyone else on Earth, yet did nothing about it. Third, I thought they would have him take the ship to the Antartic as the start of his Fortress of Solitude.

All three of those reasons.

Moreover even the military left behind Kryptonian tech. Though they put the former ship in a dome, for some reason a ten year-old boy can swim to the wreckage in the Indian ocean and pick up advanced alien tech.

Please, try and think, the US would surround that wreckage with multiple aircraft carrier groups, and pick up every loose screw.

 

[jmc]

I can't defend much of DoJ, but Wonder Woman had an arc of sorts. Wonder Woman had given up on humanity. Diana was on a purely selfish "mission" to retrieve a personal momento (i.e. a photo of her dead (?) lover). Diana was not interested in any of Lex's other wrongdoings or the possibility of conflict between Batman and Superman. But, when she learnt about Lex's plotting, saw the files on herself and others like her and witnessed Doomsday's attack on Metropolis, she resolved to once again embrace her heroic destiny, put on her armour and step-up to help save the day.

In doing so, she also sacrificed her "identity" as Diana Prince: Antiquities Dealer (or whatever she was) and possibly incurred the wrath of Hippolyta or the Amazons by revealing herself in such a public manner (although I guess that it's possible that Diana disappeared before any cameras showed up and that Lois agreed not to write about her role in defeating Doomsday).

So, she went from being selfish and wilfully blind to the evils of the world to being selfless and once again fighting for all of humanity. A decent enough arc given her minimal screen time.

So, that means the WW movie is going to end on a dour note also?

 

[haephestus]

So, that means the WW movie is going to end on a dour note also?

Possibly. I couldn't say for certain. Even if Steve survives the war and the villain of the movie, he would be dead 100 years later. Unless Diana makes a deal with someone to extend Steve's life by magical means, but it comes at a great cost (e.g. she can never return to Themyscira).

 

[jmc]

Possibly. I couldn't say for certain. Even if Steve survives the war and the villain of the movie, he would be dead 100 years later. Unless Diana makes a deal with someone to extend Steve's life by magical means, but it comes at a great cost (e.g. she can never return to Themyscira).

It's kinda mind boggling to me now that you've brought that up, because if she is as you claim so disenchanted with the world it can only mean WW is going to end on a dour note. And if that's the case nothing is being learned from this series.

 

[roach]

Somewhat. It made no story sense as it ended what was a major plot point, congressional hearings on Superman. We also don't need to see piss references in a comic book movie, it was gross just watching that jar.

I think it did make sense. Lex's plan was to bring Bats and Supes into conflict. At the time this was going down...Bruce was getting the forged letters from his ex employee. Bruce thought he was taking care of this guy but learned he wasn't and then this guy 'suicide' bombs the Capitol. Because of Superman being here this seemingly nice guy does this terrible act. So he blames Superman...also...and this is just me spitballing....if Robin dies the way he did in the comics...beaten then blown up...it might have triggered Bruce. Something Lex would have known.

 

[roach]

So, that means the WW movie is going to end on a dour note also?

I don't think it will. It will have dour notes in it but remember they said this film would be book ended by modern stuff. So it possibly could end with WW in her "Men are still good" mode

 

[jmc]

I don't think it will. It will have dour notes in it but remember they said this film would be book ended by modern stuff. So it possibly could end with WW in her "Men are still good" mode

But her not wanting to be a hero as haephestus claims is still dour. Like honestly, I would like to image there's some level of positivity in this series where the heroes are actually heroes, and not people who aren't sure about themselves.

 

[haephestus]

It's kinda mind boggling to me now that you've brought that up, because if she is as you claim so disenchanted with the world it can only mean WW is going to end on a dour note. And if that's the case nothing is being learned from this series.

I don't know. Presumably, Diana is instrumental in ending WW1, saving millions of lives. Yes, if she loses Steve in the process, the victory would be bittersweet. But, it's still a pretty major victory. It's a shame if the loss of Steve is the sole cause of her disenchantment with man's world, but if he was her first love, then it's somewhat understandable. And maybe her mission in WW1 also leads to her expulsion from Themyscira, which could be another reason for her mindset.

A truly happy ending would be nice to see in one of these films!