The Flash The Villain Bar

[metaphysician]

Something to bear in mind is that, even if their powers were innate, most of the Rogues would still have the exact same issues with posing threats to the Flash. Captain Cold shouldn't be a non-threat because he relies on a cold gun, he should be a non-threat because he has normal human reflexes, making him a statue next to the Flash.

Thus, I'd say its entirely okay to have them largely still be tech-using villains, especially if you want a "city of mad science" theme for the show. If anything, it'd give the writers an easier time, as its much easier to swallow a technical genius coming up with some specific application of their specialized gadgetry that can pose a challenge for the Flash, than that someone with innate powers hauls out random new Powers Of the Week.

 

[Duke]

I hope to see Captain Cold, Mirror Master, & Grodd make appearances on the Flash show.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Though he'd have to go all Batman on Barry's ass. Because without prep-time, their encounter would look like this.

Slade doesn't have to be faster than Flash, he just has to out think him.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Slade doesn't have to be faster than Flash, he just has to out think him.

Honestly, that moment is pure BS.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Honestly, that moment is pure BS.

In some ways yes, but I think it's good to show that the Flash's speed doesn't make him unbeatable.

 

[Nathan]

Slade doesn't have to be faster than Flash, he just has to out think him.

Spoiler

Never post that page here again.

 

[Midnight Black]

One thing I do like about the Flashes (Barry or Wally) is that depending on the writers they do have vulnerabilities. Sometimes they can be out thought, their moves predicted, or move too fast to adjust. However, sometimes that can be contradictory to their powers of being able to think at the speed of light in addition to moving so fast everything around them moves slowly.

Not a bad page, just a page illustrating that DS is a bad mofo and can capitalize on Flash/Wally's speed/weaknesses. Although I think since Wally, at that time, might not have been as fast as Barry or could not accelerate and decelerate instantly that might have played a part in him getting stabbed by Slade...idk maybe not I don't know the issue lol.

 

[Nathan]

That whole issue was bollocks. He also broke Kyle's hand, even though he had his power ring on and took out the Atom with a laser pointer.

 

[Midnight Black]

With a laser pointer???? Ha...priceless....only thing that could've been better is if he killed him with a skittle.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

That whole issue was bollocks. He also broke Kyle's hand, even though he had his power ring on and took out the Atom with a laser pointer.

What issue is that from?

 

[Nathan]

Identity Crisis #3 I think.

 

[Brian Braddock]

That whole issue was bollocks. He also broke Kyle's hand, even though he had his power ring on and took out the Atom with a laser pointer.

To this day I don't get why people cry BS over that as its perfectly plausible to me; the strength of the ring construct is only as strong as the bearers willpower and it can we found wanting when going against those with stronger willpower - who has stronger willpower than Deathstroke? Maybe a few but not Kyle IMO.

Same with the Flash thing - DS's increased mental acuity means that he's able to think 4/5 moves ahead; if he knows where Wally's going to be before even Wally knows (because he's steers him on a specific path with the use of explosives) then that's plausible too.

 

[metaphysician]

To this day I don't get why people cry BS over that as its perfectly plausible to me; the strength of the ring construct is only as strong as the bearers willpower and it can we found wanting when going against those with stronger willpower - who has stronger willpower than Deathstroke? Maybe a few but not Kyle IMO.

Three problems:

1. The ring only receives commands from its designated wearer. Explicitly established in canon for Kyle. Slade's thoughts should have done dick, because the ring wouldn't even notice them.

2. Why, exactly, wouldn't Kyle have stronger will? He took up the job of Last Green Lantern, and not only succeeded but became the best GL ever by all practical measures. Deathstroke doesn't have a long track record of unbelievable willpower, nor does he have as a part of his powerset a willpower-controlled weapon that would basically provide nonstop mental exercise.

3. Kyle got into melee range of Slade, and punched him. Without even bothering to create a giant mecha suit. Or just blast the dude. He ran up and punched him with ordinary human scale strength, rather than use any of his vast cosmic powers that would end the fight instantly. This is called "Kyle got jobbed out by the script".

Same with the Flash thing - DS's increased mental acuity means that he's able to think 4/5 moves ahead; if he knows where Wally's going to be before even Wally knows (because he's steers him on a specific path with the use of explosives) then that's plausible too.

No, it isn't. Deathstroke's ability to make predictions is completely irrelevant, because he's just as much a statue whether his intent is to jump left or shoot right. He can know perfectly well that Flash is going to run in and punch him from behind, and so position his sword behind himself. . . which the Flash then laughs at, because running into said sword is as likely as impaling yourself on the sharp part of a completely stationary stone statue.

 

[metaphysician]

This is, btw, why its recommended that the writers consider carefully how powerful they want to make Flash, especially at first. Super speed is *really powerful*, because it means you:

1. Go first against any opponent without superspeed or complete surprise

2. Go often against any opponent without superspeed, period

3. Go against an immobile statue against any opponent without superspeed, period

Toning down the superspeed so that it is possible to surprise him, and that things like explosions and bullets are at least fast enough moving that he has to put *some* effort into dodging them, is key.

 

[Midnight Black]

Meh, it's a comic they can do whatever they want. I've seen Wally trip on a rock that he is supposed to see coming because everything is moving in slow speed, wtf? These things happen.

As far as Kyle getting his hand/arm broke...maybe his ring was close to being out of juice. Or he was caught off guard by Slade and had a moment of weakness that DS capitalized on.

It happens. Bottom line, even if everything moves super slow to the flash, sometimes he will be bested by some guy sticking his foot out as he runs by.

 

[Nathan]

Bottom line is, that book was terribly written, to make Deathstroke look good, and make everyone else in the League look like a chump.

 

[Midnight Black]

Bottom line is, that book was terribly written, to make Deathstroke look good, and make everyone else in the League look like a chump.

Like they say, "Heroes have to win everytime, the villain only needs to win once."

What good would a villain be if he never beat the heroes or they were never presented a challenge.

Black Adam took down the whole JS and even he gets beat by Capt. and Supes practically everytime.

Have they done a villain series or multi-issues like they have with the new 52 or marvel now? I would really like to see like 10-15 top villains get like a 6-12 issue arc each that shows them whooping heroes' butts and diving into their backstories to the point where fans generally starting rooting for them. Would be nice if villains paths cross too.

 

[The Overlord]

Meh, it's a comic they can do whatever they want. I've seen Wally trip on a rock that he is supposed to see coming because everything is moving in slow speed, wtf? These things happen.

As far as Kyle getting his hand/arm broke...maybe his ring was close to being out of juice. Or he was caught off guard by Slade and had a moment of weakness that DS capitalized on.

It happens. Bottom line, even if everything moves super slow to the flash, sometimes he will be bested by some guy sticking his foot out as he runs by.

But we are talking about a TV show, not a comic book and the general audience may not be as forgiving of this kind of thing as some comic book fans are.

 

[Midnight Black]

But we are talking about a TV show, not a comic book and the general audience may not be as forgiving of this kind of thing as some comic book fans are.

This is CW's audience....I'm sure they will not have a huge problem...You have to give your heroes some sort of weaknesses or faults.

So yeah although he moves superfast and everything around him moves at slower speeds, I still see him tripping on something. Just you wait.

 

[Paradox1]

This is, btw, why its recommended that the writers consider carefully how powerful they want to make Flash, especially at first. Super speed is *really powerful*, because it means you:

1. Go first against any opponent without superspeed or complete surprise

2. Go often against any opponent without superspeed, period

3. Go against an immobile statue against any opponent without superspeed, period

Toning down the superspeed so that it is possible to surprise him, and that things like explosions and bullets are at least fast enough moving that he has to put *some* effort into dodging them, is key.

A person who could you punch you at superspeed could punch a whole through your face with the force of their momentum

 

[Sterling Archer]

A person who could you punch you at superspeed could punch a whole through your face with the force of their momentum

But if Flash were to punch someone like that it would also surely mangle his hand to pieces since he is no tougher than a regular human and any damage his momentum does to his opponent it will also do to him.

 

[Paradox1]

But if Flash were to punch someone like that it would also surely mangle his hand to pieces since he is no tougher than a regular human and any damage his momentum does to his opponent it will also do to him.

Still punching through someone's head sounds really cool. Also doesn't he have a protective force field that would protect his bones.

 

[godisawesome]

Actually, I think if he follows through with any punch, his hands structural integrity will remain largely undamaged. I could be wrong though. I'm a social studies guy, not a physics one.

One advantage they do have is they could make someone like the Top extremely dangerous here if they keep his vertigo inducing powers. Imagine Barry still learning us speed and losing control.

And yeah, I do dislike Deathstroke in Identity Crisis. Injustice had a better strategy for incapacitating Barry Slade-style; use proximity bombs to get him off the ground, another to blow a hole underneath him, than another to blast him down into it. And they had him ambush them as well, which is probably the best way to play these normal characters like when Batman's already put gasoline down on the ground when white Martians confront him.

 

[cleverusername8]

I'm probably in the minority for thinking this, but Mob Rule from the first arc in the New 52 Flash comics would be a cool villain to explore in the TV series.

It'd be perfect since it's
A) Doable on a TV budget without any CGI or expensive effects (maybe they'd splurge a little on the EMP blast if they follow the storyline)
B) The character doesn't have a cheesy name or origin. It fits well into the establish Arrow world so far.
C) The character also has a personal connection to Barry's past which will probably be explored in great detail for the first season as we get to know Barry.
D) Opens the door to a number of other important characters like Captain Cold and Dr. Elias.

For those of you who may not know, you can read up on him/them here: http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Manuel_Lago_(Prime_Earth)

I really enjoyed this starting arc of stories for New 52 Flash. And I thought it transitioned into Captain Cold excellently. This should be how they introduce him into the Arrow universe: the EMP power outage and all. It gave the character a good deal of heart and a non-cheesy reason for his hatred of the Flash.

Also, Dr. Elias would be interesting to include in the recurring cast as well (especially if they won't tie Flash to STAR Labs right away). His role in the new comics stories explains that as well.

In any case, that's my two cents for a villain to throw in the mix of villains already confirmed to show up in one way or another.

 

[metaphysician]

Even before the Speed Force was introduced, the Flash had a "speed aura" that basically provided protection against problematic laws of physics: friction, unwanted sonic booms, high speed collisions, stuff like that.