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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]469611[/split]
I think a black cloak similar to this (only with a hood) would be better suited and wouldn't stand out as much
I actually really like the costume to the left just needs better straps and perhaps some accessories that might make her flesh less easily targetable like the arm bands and choker.
Well, yeah. I'm saying I think it would be better if it was just a solid color. Some kind of pattern feels like it's a little bit too much for me.
A hooded black cloak? Eh. It doesn't really seem to echo anything from the character or her heritage to me.
Just on the trim, then.
You're missing the point. Those images I posted aren't designed to show what male characters would wear if they were sexualized. They were made to show that there is a problem with how many female costumes are designed. They just put female costumes on males to show how silly they look on males. And you know what? They look just as silly on females. That's the point. The images are simply pointing out how female costumes are designed and how female characters are posed. It also makes fun of some of the excuses people use to justify these costumes.
A yes, the all pervasive "male gaze" theory. Sorry, not gonna work. I don't buy modern feminist theory. Quite honestly, most of it makes my eyes roll with how ridiculously over the top it is. And I also hate to disappoint you with the "for men it's only meant to be powerful" shtick. As I stated before, I'm kind of more interested in the male sex and you know what you see when you look at mags and media targeted at "gays" in terms of sex appeal? The same kind of representation. Muscles, skimpy trunks, loincloth and so on and so forth. It's a bit of a cop-out that you want to separate "power fantasy" and sexual imagery when it comes to males because that IS part of what male sexual objectification is all about. Now, one could of course talk about the inherent homo eroticism in male sexual objectification but eh, that's a bit of a tangent but to state that representation of males like in the instances I mentioned is not sexual objectification is short sighted and narrow.As as for Tarzan. He isn't sexualized. He's idealized for men. All that oiled up muscle isn't sexualized for women (although some women may enjoy it anyways). It's a male power fantasy. That is the issue with some character depictions. Men are idealized and women are sexualized, both under the male gaze. Both the idealized male and over-sexualized woman are images that are targeted towards men. It's designed so men can picture themselves as this powerful, idealized male who gets all the babes. Tarzan would probably look very different if he was targeted towards and designed by a woman.
And I being a bit chubby myself would NOT want that. Why? Because it's a ridiculous concept that reeks of political correctness. A fat Superhero would not be fat for long if he has to endure the physical challenges of the job. Provided, he survives long enough and doesn't get creamed during his first outing.And you're right about female characters' bodies (and males too). They usually look the same. They're used to sell false ideals of the perfect female/male body. Maybe there should be a chubby superhero to represent a different body type. I'm not even joking.
A yes, the all pervasive "male gaze" theory. Sorry, not gonna work. I don't buy modern feminist theory. Quite honestly, most of it makes my eyes roll with how ridiculously over the top it is. And I also hate to disappoint you with the "for men it's only meant to be powerful" shtick. As I stated before, I'm kind of more interested in the male sex and you know what you see when you look at mags and media targeted at "gays" in terms of sex appeal? The same kind of representation. Muscles, skimpy trunks, loincloth and so on and so forth. It's a bit of a cop-out that you want to separate "power fantasy" and sexual imagery when it comes to malest because that IS part of what male sexual objectification is all about. Now, one could of course talk about the inherent homo eroticism in male sexual objectification but eh, that's a bit of a tangent but to state that representation of males like in the instances I mentioned is not sexual objectification is short sighted and narrow.
Though I do concede that both images are made by men. Which begs the question, what would sexualized imagery made by a lesbian look like. I got a hunch it won't be that different from what a heterosexual male might envision.
A fat Superhero would not be fat for long if he has to endure the physical challenges of the job. Provided, he survives long enough and doesn't get creamed during his first outing.
Who's research?So, you're ignoring decades of scholarly research into the fields of sociology and psychology in favor of a hunch.
Who's research?
Oh and why are they so „silly“ and what is the problem with how it is designed? Right, sexualizing“ the character according to some feminists. So don't pretend it is not about perceived „sexual objectification.“
Besides, they don't look as silly on females as on males since most of them are designed after actual female articles of clothing. Be it bathing stuff or female gym wear (outdated female gym wear, I give you that). Supergirl's classic duds, for example, have very close resemblance to female tennis wear from the 80. However, putting that on a male makes it look silly.
It's like putting a man into an evening dress, in most cases it looks just stupid on him, yet good on a woman. Men and women are kinda different and you can't simply extrapolate things from one sex to the other in most cases. There is a legitimate argument that can be made about sexual representation in comic art but not by simply using female sexual imagery with male characters. To make the argument coherent you have to present male sexualized imagery.
As for the motivation of using these costumes. It's the same reason why the males are drawn with them. Because it is supposed to show off some idealised form of the perfect human body. When you take a closer look Superhero costumes are pretty much glorified body paint, which leads us back to the same topic about male objectification. The aesthetic is again, muscular men dressed in skimpy trunks. Look at Superman's classic duds, The suit has no dimension to it. It might as well be a cape, boots and trunks.
But lets take a look at "modern" Super heroine costumes. I think, they objectify women even more to a degree. Take Cat woman or Captain Marvel or heck, Wonder Woman with her skin tight pants. You know what they look like? Like fetish wear. Like skin tight rubber and spandex cat suits or leggings. They are not only sexualising, they are outright fetishizising the character. Considering that one of the purposes of these kind of outfits is ACTUAL objectification in BDSM play, it doesn't make things better. I mean look at Pfeiffers Catwoman. Does that costume de-sexualize her because she's covered almost head to toe? She looks like a friggin' dominatrix for christ's sake.
And yes, Hathaway also looks like a dominatrix. Even the 60's Catwomen did
If one would truly want to desexualize comic book imagery you would have to get away from the whole “tight costume” shtick. Heck, I think I know ONE female superhero of whom one could truly say she is not sexualized in any way, when it comes to her look.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/198ab2536607abf267caa137ce986c4d/tumblr_mq5tp7gsBQ1qg65vko1_400.jpg
A yes, the all pervasive "male gaze" theory. Sorry, not gonna work. I don't buy modern feminist theory. Quite honestly, most of it makes my eyes roll with how ridiculously over the top it is. And I also hate to disappoint you with the "for men it's only meant to be powerful" shtick. As I stated before, I'm kind of more interested in the male sex and you know what you see when you look at mags and media targeted at "gays" in terms of sex appeal? The same kind of representation. Muscles, skimpy trunks, loincloth and so on and so forth. It's a bit of a cop-out that you want to separate "power fantasy" and sexual imagery when it comes to males because that IS part of what male sexual objectification is all about. Now, one could of course talk about the inherent homo eroticism in male sexual objectification but eh, that's a bit of a tangent but to state that representation of males like in the instances I mentioned is not sexual objectification is short sighted and narrow.
Though I do concede that both images are made by men. Which begs the question, what would sexualized imagery made by a lesbian look like. I got a hunch it won't be that different from what a heterosexual male might envision.
I also concede that the way female characters pose is pretty silly. THAT is where I see true sexualisation not necessairly in the outfit.
Though I do admit this is a bit of a tangent topic and since I do not want to derail the thread any further this will be my last comment made about perceived sexual objectification of comic book imagery
Oh and why are they so „silly“ and what is the problem with how it is designed? Right, sexualizing“ the character according to some feminists. So don't pretend it is not about perceived „sexual objectification.“
Besides, they don't look as silly on females as on males since most of them are designed after actual female articles of clothing. Be it bathing stuff or female gym wear (outdated female gym wear, I give you that). Supergirl's classic duds, for example, have very close resemblance to female tennis wear from the 80. However, putting that on a male makes it look silly.
It's like putting a man into an evening dress, in most cases it looks just stupid on him, yet good on a woman. Men and women are kinda different and you can't simply extrapolate things from one sex to the other in most cases. There is a legitimate argument that can be made about sexual representation in comic art but not by simply using female sexual imagery with male characters. To make the argument coherent you have to present male sexualized imagery.
As for the motivation of using these costumes. It's the same reason why the males are drawn with them. Because it is supposed to show off some idealised form of the perfect human body. When you take a closer look Superhero costumes are pretty much glorified body paint, which leads us back to the same topic about male objectification. The aesthetic is again, muscular men dressed in skimpy trunks. Look at Superman's classic duds, The suit has no dimension to it. It might as well be a cape, boots and trunks.
But lets take a look at "modern" Super heroine costumes. I think, they objectify women even more to a degree. Take Cat woman or Captain Marvel or heck, Wonder Woman with her skin tight pants. You know what they look like? Like fetish wear. Like skin tight rubber and spandex cat suits or leggings. They are not only sexualising, they are outright fetishizising the character. Considering that one of the purposes of these kind of outfits is ACTUAL objectification in BDSM play, it doesn't make things better. I mean look at Pfeiffers Catwoman. Does that costume de-sexualize her because she's covered almost head to toe? She looks like a friggin' dominatrix for christ's sake. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3ukw8jKzu1qgquvwo1_1280.jpg
And yes, Hathaway also looks like a dominatrix. Even the 60's Catwomen did.
If one would truly want to desexualize comic book imagery you would have to get away from the whole “tight costume” shtick. Heck, I think I know ONE female superhero of whom one could truly say she is not sexualized in any way, when it comes to her look.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/198ab2536607abf267caa137ce986c4d/tumblr_mq5tp7gsBQ1qg65vko1_400.jpg
A yes, the all pervasive "male gaze" theory. Sorry, not gonna work. I don't buy modern feminist theory. Quite honestly, most of it makes my eyes roll with how ridiculously over the top it is. And I also hate to disappoint you with the "for men it's only meant to be powerful" shtick. As I stated before, I'm kind of more interested in the male sex and you know what you see when you look at mags and media targeted at "gays" in terms of sex appeal? The same kind of representation. Muscles, skimpy trunks, loincloth and so on and so forth. It's a bit of a cop-out that you want to separate "power fantasy" and sexual imagery when it comes to malest because that IS part of what male sexual objectification is all about. Now, one could of course talk about the inherent homo eroticism in male sexual objectification but eh, that's a bit of a tangent but to state that representation of males like in the instances I mentioned is not sexual objectification is short sighted and narrow.
Though I do concede that both images are made by men. Which begs the question, what would sexualized imagery made by a lesbian look like. I got a hunch it won't be that different from what a heterosexual male might envision.
I also concede that the way female characters pose is pretty silly. THAT is where I see true sexualisation not in the outfit.
And I being a bit chubby myself would NOT want that. Why? Because it's a ridiculous concept that reeks of political correctness. A fat Superhero would not be fat for long if he has to endure the physical challenges of the job. Provided, he survives long enough and doesn't get creamed during his first outing.
Though I do admit this is a bit of a tangent topic and since I do not want to derail the thread any further this will be my last comment made about perceived sexual objectification of comic book imagery
and we wonder why it took her son long to be put on the big screen.
and we wonder why it took her son long to be put on the big screen.
Anyway, this is the kind of design I had in mind for the stars on Wonder Woman'spants:battle skirt