The Xbox One - Part 2

[Nathan]

Is it though? See my reply just above and the fact that lending ISN'T illegal. In the eyes of a game company you want sales. THEY see it as the same and will restrict it as best as possible now that the technology is available. No company cares that little Joey is upset because he can't borrow his buddy's games as long as they get that extra cash. Again, would you? People will buy this no matter what way this plays out.

Problem with that is though, that people often borrow games from friends, or rent them, because they can't afford every new $60 game in the first place. The only thing that'll happen is that people will wait for price drops, and be really selective when it comes to their game purchases. It's not going to drastically spike game sales.

 

[HauntedKnight]

To be blunt, yes, they are different, very much so. One is taking a product you legally own, and handing it off to a close friend. The other is illegally ripping information off the disk, and then handing it out to 100's of thousands of strangers. There's a huuuuuggggge difference.

You own that one physical copy, this is law. If you want to give it away, loan it out, whatever, it's your legal right. You however don't own the license, trademarks, ect, ect. So you can't copy your legally owned one, and hand it out to others.


It's like trying to compare watching a show on TV to recording said show off of TV, and then trying to sell it to as a DVD collection box set on eBay. Your rights pertain to that one copy, and nothing else. Torrent, and loaning/renting/ect are night and day.

Heh, I feel like you think I'm arguing this the opposite of you. I totally agree with you 100%. I feel the same that it's my property, etc.

BUT, what I feel I see some people missing is that Microsoft themselves choose not to see a difference. Why? Each sale = $. If they put a 'feature' to stop you from flat out lending a game, they are beating us. This will be more common than people think one day.

Like you, I hate that, but if it was my company I'd do the same. Why sell 1 game when you can sell at least 2?

 

[X Knight]

the more I hear about the new XBOX, the less I like it.

 

[TX85]

XB1's highlights..
[YT]KbWgUO-Rqcw[/YT]

 

[Fading]

Heh, I feel like you think I'm arguing this the opposite of you. I totally agree with you 100%. I feel the same that it's my property, etc.

BUT, what I feel I see some people missing is that Microsoft themselves choose not to see a difference. Why? Each sale = $. If they put a 'feature' to stop you from flat out lending a game, they are beating us. This will be more common than people think one day.

Like you, I hate that, but if it was my company I'd do the same. Why sell 1 game when you can sell at least 2?

Don't get me wrong, I see your point too. I'm not arguing with you as much as the train of thought. You're saying that the companies doing this don't see the difference, not that you yourself don't.


Of course Microsoft, EA, ect, are going to want to squeeze every last penny out. It's just that every time we defend their greed, we justify it. I'm not saying you personally are, just talking in general. What they're trying to do is to legally do something that's illegal. Then they have a large, vocal, online group always come to their defense, or people continue to purchase products with these restrictions. Then these companies view this as consumer confidence, and thumbs up.

So things escalate, as they continually push how far they can take these ideas. Eventually however they're either going to go too far and drive consumers away (hurting the game market as a whole), or end up crossing the line that treads on the fair use doctrine and be forced legally to correct it. This just happens to be the first time a console itself has adopted these strong of policies. If it ends up working in MS's favor, others will adopt it. That's why I don't want it to work. Not that I want X1 to fail, even if I'm probably not going to buy one, I'd never want people to lose their jobs. It's just that I don't want such a strategy succeeding, and influencing the rest of the market, because I doubt they'll simply stop and not escalate these policies further.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Well, I dunno how you deduced that I was a loyalist, but from a company standpoint where your end goal is to make money and that each game sale is profit, THEY won't see a difference in torrenting and lending. Would you? I like to look at these things and figure out how they came to this decision, it's not like I don't like the no borrowing option.

They damn well better see the difference because one is legal and the other isn't.

Is it though? See my reply just above and the fact that lending ISN'T illegal. In the eyes of a game company you want sales. THEY see it as the same and will restrict it as best as possible now that the technology is available. No company cares that little Joey is upset because he can't borrow his buddy's games as long as they get that extra cash. Again, would you? People will buy this no matter what way this plays out.

If they have an issue about it, too bad. The law gives consumers the ability to do with their copy of the game as they choose. Want people to buy your game? Make it good and affordable. Don't treat your customers as criminals.

 

[HauntedKnight]

Don't get me wrong, I see your point too. I'm not arguing with you as much as the train of thought. You're saying that the companies doing this don't see the difference, not that you yourself don't.


Of course Microsoft, EA, ect, are going to want to squeeze every last penny out. It's just that every time we defend their greed, we justify it. I'm not saying you personally are, just talking in general. What they're trying to do is to legally do something that's illegal. Then they have a large, vocal, online group always come to their defense, or people continue to purchase products with these restrictions. Then these companies view this as consumer confidence, and thumbs up.

So things escalate, as they continually push how far they can take these ideas. Eventually however they're either going to go too far and drive consumers away (hurting the game market as a whole), or end up crossing the line that treads on the fair use doctrine and be forced legally to correct it. This just happens to be the first time a console itself has adopted these strong of policies. If it ends up working in MS's favor, others will adopt it. That's why I don't want it to work. Not that I want X1 to fail, even if I'm probably not going to buy one, I'd never want people to lose their jobs. It's just that I don't want such a strategy succeeding, and influencing the rest of the market, because I doubt they'll simply stop and not escalate these policies further.

They damn well better see the difference because one is legal and the other isn't.


If they have an issue about it, too bad. The law gives consumers the ability to do with their copy of the game as they choose. Want people to buy your game? Make it good and affordable. Don't treat your customers as criminals.

Agreed on both posts. Now comes the matter of how the people DO handle it. I personally, even though it may seem like I'm defending, think something like this is a terrible idea for the consumer. After my own bad experience I even hate the stupid online passes for games and won't buy another that requires one.

Currently, I don't plan on supporting by buying the console. Even now, I'm favoring my PS3 over my 360 for everything (just wish PS3 had easier ways to chat). I already know that if I have to pay for live still I'm definitely not getting this console much less paying for borrowing/renting a game, but that's me. I often like to just make sure people see WHY a 'feature' exists even if it's terribly inconvenient.

Spidey-Bat, I know where you are coming from. And that's were I was coming from is that it is legal to borrow so now they are trying to find a way to tone that down. Whatever they do can always be turned into "if you don't like it don't buy it". Again, which is where I'm headed. The REAL issue for us gamers now is whether people buy this remains to be seen and that will further decide if this gets adopted by others. Hopefully not.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

XB1's highlights..
[YT]KbWgUO-Rqcw[/YT]

Haha, thats been posted no less than 5 times in this thread. I think ppl missed it the first i posted it. Or maybe they think its funny enough to repost every page haha.

 

[AxlsAppetite]

Don't know if you guys are aware of this but the XboxSupport3 twitter is saying with certainty that the X1 will not charge a fee to play used games.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Don't know if you guys are aware of this but the XboxSupport3 twitter is saying with certainty that the X1 will not charge a fee to play used games.

Yea MajorNelson has been answering questions and one of the things he said was

"As i noted earlier, we're still working on some of the policies, but our goal is that it would work like it works today on the Xbox 360"

This was in response to someone asking if they would have to pay a fee if two parties wanted to use their separate accounts to play one game.

I wouldnt doubt it for a second if MS starts back tracking on a lot of these unpopular policies that are being revealed.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I'm waiting for the "if you have Xbox Live Gold" stipulation.

 

[TX85]

First they confirmed that there's fees and now a day latter they are saying it'll be like it is now?..Unless Nelson means on the same console!?

 

[Havok83]

I'm past the backwards compatibility issue. I think maybe owning the a PS3 that isn't probably made it easier to deal with, but I've got the newest models of both the 360 and PS3. So, I wasn't planning on getting rid of those systems anyway.

I am curious how my gamertag or PSN ID will co-exist on two different hardwares. In theory, if I wind up getting either of these consoles, I will definitely wind up playing games again on the current gen consoles at some point. So, I'm really interested in seeing how that's handled.

that wouldn't be nothing new. XBL gamertag co-exists on Xbox 360, Windows and Windows phones. PSN accounts co-exist on PS3 and Vita. All these new systems do is add one new system to the lot

 

[Dark_Lord]

First they confirmed that there's fees and now a day latter they are saying it'll be like it is now?..Unless Nelson means on the same console!?

Since both the used games and the always online policies are software related, they can easily change them whenever they want. Hopefully this is what they're doing. Nelson said they're still working on those policies, so they'll probably reveal the details at E3.

 

[cherokeesam]

Exactly....Fading is dead solid perfect in describing the vast difference between lending and pirating.

If I *buy* a game disc, it's mine. I can loan it out to my friends. I can resale it, legally, on eBay, at a yard sale, or to GameStop, or anyone else. What I *can't* do is make a copy of it and redistribute it. THAT is piracy, pure and simple. And there is nothing in the "borrowing fee" M$ is proposing that has anything to do with piracy or torrenting....instead, it punishes what is perfectly legal --- loaning out or reselling the game disc (to Gamestop or whomever).

 

[Nathan]

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I dont get the Wii U part? It was just a pole or something

 

[DirtyHarry]

but I I don't get the Wii U part either

 

[Doc Ock]

The Wii U is standing still and doing nothing? Or isn't as powerful?

 

[Nathan]

Ok, this needs to happen.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

God i hate corgi's. My aunt and uncle had one that was THE most annoying creature on the planet.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

XBLA games won't carry over to Xbox One

Gamers hoping to bring their library of Xbox Live Arcade games with them to the Xbox One are out of luck. Microsoft has confirmed that these games will not carry over to the next-generation platform.

"Those games will continue to run on your Xbox 360 for as long as your Xbox 360 runs," Microsoft Game Studios VP Phil Spencer told GameSpot. "The box is not backward compatible and we think for somebody who invests in a large digital library that you want to keep your [Xbox 360]. Keep that as a vibrant part of the ecosystem."

Continuing to play on an Xbox 360 while others are on Xbox One won't be an alienating experience, Spencer said, because friends lists and achievements will remain constant between both platforms.

"That's why we've made sure that your identity, your friends, are constant between both platforms. You don't have a separate identity on Xbox one or [Xbox 360]; it's the same, you are you," Spencer said. "My friend's network is the same on both boxes, my achievements are the same. So we think that service component is an important component to keep constant across both devices."

The Xbox One not only does not support XBLA titles, but it will not be backwards compatible with Xbox 360 games.

Check out GameSpot's full Xbox One conversation with Spencer for more on used games, the platform's Internet requirements, and new business models.

 

[Nathan]

One more!

 

[Whiskey Tango]

heh

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

XBLA games won't carry over to Xbox One

Gamers hoping to bring their library of Xbox Live Arcade games with them to the Xbox One are out of luck. Microsoft has confirmed that these games will not carry over to the next-generation platform.

"Those games will continue to run on your Xbox 360 for as long as your Xbox 360 runs," Microsoft Game Studios VP Phil Spencer told GameSpot. "The box is not backward compatible and we think for somebody who invests in a large digital library that you want to keep your [Xbox 360]. Keep that as a vibrant part of the ecosystem."

Continuing to play on an Xbox 360 while others are on Xbox One won't be an alienating experience, Spencer said, because friends lists and achievements will remain constant between both platforms.

"That's why we've made sure that your identity, your friends, are constant between both platforms. You don't have a separate identity on Xbox one or [Xbox 360]; it's the same, you are you," Spencer said. "My friend's network is the same on both boxes, my achievements are the same. So we think that service component is an important component to keep constant across both devices."

The Xbox One not only does not support XBLA titles, but it will not be backwards compatible with Xbox 360 games.

Check out GameSpot's full Xbox One conversation with Spencer for more on used games, the platform's Internet requirements, and new business models.