Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 3

[harryoscop]

judging from your comment and harry's, I take it that classic comic Iris is pretty similar to tv show Iris in terms of traits, personality, motivation, etc.?

Yep, she is. All of Iris' basic traits: determined eporter, related to Wally & very headstrong. Like comic Iris, she's also very assertive about what she wants.

 

[KalvinEllis]

judging from your comment and harry's, I take it that classic comic Iris is pretty similar to tv show Iris in terms of traits, personality, motivation, etc.?

Pretty much. As a reporter, she sticks her nose everywhere, she is constantly curious about what Barry's doing, she is related to Wally(who in the comics is her nephew, not her brother), etc. She is somewhat different but the ethnicity is basically the only major difference. TV show Iris is no less Iris West than her Caucasian counterpart.

 

[fuflipflops]

[BLACKOUT]What exactly was the context in the gif that was posted? I don't want to have go into the spoiler thread to see it. I have a feeling that the reveal will be one of the end credit scenes, in which case, maybe they left some wiggle room for her to have her proper name? [/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

it's not in a post credit scene. it's michelle sitting with peter and ned saying "my friends call me MJ." it looks like it's just in the middle of a random conversation.

 

[X Knight]

[BLACKOUT]What exactly was the context in the gif that was posted? I don't want to have go into the spoiler thread to see it. I have a feeling that the reveal will be one of the end credit scenes, in which case, maybe they left some wiggle room for her to have her proper name? [/BLACKOUT]

well, apparently, it goes like this

Spoiler

Zendaya's character is called Michelle throughout the film.
Towards the end of the film, she gets elected as the new captian of the debate team ( cuz I think Liz decides to move away ). At that point, Michelle tells Peter that her friends call her "MJ."

So, that implies that Michelle's last name begins with a J. Or else she has a middle name that begins with J. Either way, she's Michelle J something.

so, she's "MJ" without actually being Mary Jane Watson.

 

[X Knight]

Yep, she is.

Pretty much. As a reporter, she sticks her nose everywhere, she is constantly curious about what Barry's doing, she is related to Wally(who in the comics is her nephew, not her brother), etc. She is somewhat different but the ethnicity is basically the only major difference. TV show Iris is no less Iris West than her Caucasian counterpart.

thanks.

so, yeah, they got the basics of her character the same, with some changes to fit the tv show universe - which is to be expected.

no reason why they couldn't have done the same with MJ here.

 

[harryoscop]

Pretty much. As a reporter, she sticks her nose everywhere, she is constantly curious about what Barry's doing, she is related to Wally(who in the comics is her nephew, not her brother), etc. She is somewhat different but the ethnicity is basically the only major difference. TV show Iris is no less Iris West than her Caucasian counterpart.

See & that's the problem with Homecoming's supporting cast in general imo. It has nothing to do with a character's race. I'm happy that the cast is diverse/reflective of modern-day NYC.

But Flash could have still been a sports jock regardless of his skin color. Ned could have still been a school reporter & aspiring journalist regardless of skin color. MJ could have still been the fun, outgoing model (Instagram model for modern spin) & Zendaya COULD have nailed the part. Instead we get Michelle who is the exact opposite.

 

[Chris B]

well, apparently, it goes like this

Spoiler

Zendaya's character is called Michelle throughout the film.
Towards the end of the film, she gets elected as the new captian of the debate team ( cuz I think Liz decides to move away ). At that point, Michelle tells Peter that her friends call her "MJ."

So, that implies that Michelle's last name begins with a J. Or else she has a middle name that begins with J. Either way, she's Michelle J something.

so, she's "MJ" without actually being Mary Jane Watson.

[BLACKOUT]That is disappointing if accurate. I would like to think that perhaps they've left some room for it to be revealed that her name is indeed Mary Jane down the line in that scenario. Personally, I would've just called her Debra Whitman and saved Mary Jane for a sequel.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm confused, did we get some kind of confirmation that Zendaya is indeed playing Mary Jane? Everyone posting in the last page or so is acting as though we did.

Not Mary Jane but MJ. The name Mary Jane has bitten the dust. We've all speculated upon it before anyway that Michelle would end up with a last name beginning with J and would say "call me MJ". That is not a spoiler. That is what we've said all along for months. What the J is for the last name is irrelevant, but just that it spells out those initials, as if that is actually more important than the actual name Mary Jane Watson.

Expect to get someone named JJJ whose initials stand for Jorge Juan Jalapeño, a shy and quiet illiterate boy that Peter teaches to read and write and gets him interested in playing the bugle.

 

[harryoscop]

That's Mary Jane.


Not her:

 

[PeterBenParker]

Don't you know whatever that is good/ well-made is Feige's work and whatever that is controversial/ sub-par is somehow caused by Pascal's "stupidity" even though Sony just paid for and distributes the movie.

I admit that Feige is a more competent producer but this kind of double standard is unreal.

Preach. The same double standard applies to non-MCU films as well, via WB, Sony and/or FOX.

If someone hates a major change in one of those films, they'll let you know about it and it's their right because opinions and all of that. If someone brings up a major change in one of the Marvel films, however, some will go on and on about how it worked because of the Universe they've created and brush it off because "it's not effecting the overall quality of the film" (or even make claims that it's minor because only small groups of people are bothered by it), which was done with Tony being responsible for Ultron, The Mandarin twist, etc. Then they'll pull the 'ol, "Stop trolling!" card if it keeps up. It's just laughable at times.

Edit: I'm not saying all changes have to be met with either all positivity or negativity, I just it fascinating how quick a tune can change when a film is under a certain umbrella.

 

[Dark Raven]

See & that's the problem with Homecoming's supporting cast in general imo. It has nothing to do with a character's race. I'm happy that the cast is diverse/reflective of modern-day NYC.

But Flash could have still been a sports jock regardless of his skin color. Ned could have still been a school reporter & aspiring journalist regardless of skin color. MJ could have still been the fun, outgoing model (Instagram model for modern spin) & Zendaya COULD have nailed the part. Instead we get Michelle who is the exact opposite.

They could've race bended Flash and made him a black basketball star who thinks he's all that and knows that all the chicks dig him. He could look down on Peter, and bully him but eventually could've become friends with him and would have his back. That would've been far more interesting than two nerds who are academic rivals eventually becoming friends. Revelori's Flash just sounds pathetic.

 

[KalvinEllis]

See & that's the problem with Homecoming's supporting cast in general imo. It has nothing to do with a character's race. I'm happy that the cast is diverse/reflective of modern-day NYC.

But Flash could have still been a sports jock regardless of his skin color. Ned could have still been a school reporter & aspiring journalist regardless of skin color. MJ could have still been the fun, outgoing model (Instagram model for modern spin) & Zendaya COULD have nailed the part. Instead we get Michelle who is the exact opposite.

It's very ironic isn't it? In their attempts to move away from what they clearly consider to be outdated tropes, they made the characters the opposite of what they actually are.

 

[Dark Raven]

That's Mary Jane.


Not her:

I don't care if Michelle even becomes that top picture at the end. Her arc will still have been all wrong and it still won't really be the character, especially if she's just Michelle J instead of Mary Jane Watson.

Would anyone say that Lana Lang with all her personality is actually just Lois Lane, and that at least she still has the same initials, even though absolutely everything is different? Well, aren't they just two separate characters with completely different arcs and personal issues?

 

[X Knight]

See & that's the problem with Homecoming's supporting cast in general imo. It has nothing to do with a character's race. I'm happy that the cast is diverse/reflective of modern-day NYC.

But Flash could have still been a sports jock regardless of his skin color. Ned could have still been a school reporter & aspiring journalist regardless of skin color. MJ could have still been the fun, outgoing model (Instagram model for modern spin) & Zendaya COULD have nailed the part. Instead we get Michelle who is the exact opposite.

yep.

now, as I've said before, Peter's HS cast is already quite diverse without having to really change any of the core characters' races - just look at the Spectacular show. And that expands more if you include the Bugle cast. You had whites, blacks, latinos, and asians.

with that being said, there's no reason why Flash couldn't have been a big Samoan/Pacific Islander jock dude ( think young Manu Bennett or young Roman Reigns ) who's a physical bully to Peter but also good looking and smart himself - which adds to the conceited, cocky attitude.

Betty could have been the school reporter if you want to move her to HS, but still keep her a short hair brunette, and Ned could have been part of the school paper with her.

[BLACKOUT]That is disappointing if accurate. I would like to think that perhaps they've left some room for it to be revealed that her name is indeed Mary Jane down the line in that scenario. Personally, I would've just called her Debra Whitman and saved Mary Jane for a sequel.[/BLACKOUT]

with the way they're going, I don't think they left much room to change direction, unfortunately.

I mean, it's still technically possible for

Spoiler

the real Mary Jane Watson to show up, since Michelle isn't actually Mary Jane. However, unless it's done as a running gag/theme, it's kind of stupid to have Michelle be called "MJ" only to introduce another "MJ"
(who's the real MJ) later on.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I think I'm just gonna [BLACKOUT]accept that Michelle is Mary Jane without having to be called Mary Jane until proven otherwise.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[X Knight]

I don't care if Michelle even becomes that top picture at the end. Her arc will still have been all wrong and it still won't really be the character, especially if she's just Michelle J instead of Mary Jane Watson.

Would anyone say that Lana Lang with all her personality is actually just Lois Lane, and that at least she still has the same initials, even though absolutely everything is different? Well, aren't they just two separate characters with completely different arcs and personal issues?

exactly.

if Peter starts out as a dumb, good looking jock but undergoes a story arc where he transforms into a nerdy geek by the end of the film, is that still the same Peter?

nope. it's an entirely different character. especially if said character is actually named Paul Petunia or something.

 

[Dark Raven]

now, as I've said before, Peter's HS cast is already quite diverse without having to really change any of the core characters' races - just look at the Spectacular show. And that expands more if you include the Bugle cast. You had whites, blacks, latinos, and asians.

with that being said, there's no reason why Flash couldn't have been a big Samoan/Pacific Islander jock dude ( think young Manu Bennett or young Roman Reigns ) who's a physical bully to Peter but also good looking and smart himself - which adds to the conceited, cocky attitude.

Betty could have been the school reporter if you want to move her to HS, but still keep her a short hair brunette, and Ned could have been part of the school paper with her.

If they did have a jock, that would also have fitted in more with the Breakfast Club that they were trying so hard to emulate. It looks ridiculous when no-one is like that and they're all dweebs here, especially Flash Thompson. Most of the guys (or maybe all?) in the high school cast look like they belong in their own version of the Big Bang Theory.

 

[harryoscop]

I don't care if Michelle even becomes that top picture at the end. Her arc will still have been all wrong and it still won't really be the character, especially if she's just Michelle J instead of Mary Jane Watson.

Would anyone say that Lana Lang with all her personality is actually just Lois Lane, and that at least she still has the same initials, even though absolutely everything is different? Well, aren't they just two separate characters with completely different arcs and personal issues?

Exactly. Does Tony Stark go on a journey to becoming a genius billionaire playboy? No, because that's his basic character trait, he was born into his wealth. It's instilled in his character from the beginning.

They could've race bended Flash and made him a black basketball star who thinks he's all that and knows that all the chicks dig him. He could look down on Peter, and bully him but eventually could've become friends with him and would have his back. That would've been far more interesting than two nerds who are academic rivals eventually becoming friends. Revelori's Flash just sounds pathetic.

That would have been faithful to the original comics while also providing a modern spin. Flash wouldn't have to be "gimme your lunch money" but more "Ugh, look at Parker. Who does he think he is with his good grades etc" I imagine him being like Reggie/Chuck from CW Riverdale. Much preferred to the "runt of Midtown who is insecure because Peter gets better grades than him" Flash doesn't even seem popular at all. He comes across as somebody nobody likes when it should be the opposite.

 

[X Knight]

If they did have a jock, that would also have fitted in more with the Breakfast Club that they were trying so hard to emulate. It looks ridiculous when no-one is like that and they're all dweebs here, especially Flash Thompson. Most of the guys (or maybe all?) in the high school cast look like they belong in their own version of the Big Bang Theory.

it also makes Peter stand out less when the rest of the gang is pretty smart.

the whole idea was that Peter felt like an outcast amongst the "popular" athletics-oriented crowd.

 

[Dark Raven]

Exactly. Does Tony Stark go on a journey to becoming a genius billionaire playboy? No, because that's his basic character trait, he was born into his wealth. It's instilled in his character from the beginning.

That would have been faithful to the original comics while also providing a modern spin. Flash wouldn't have to be "gimme your lunch money" but more "Ugh, look at Parker. Who does he think he is with his good grades etc" I imagine him being like Reggie/Chuck from CW Riverdale. Much preferred to the "runt of Midtown who is insecure because Peter gets better grades than him" Flash doesn't even seem popular at all. He comes across as somebody nobody likes when it should be the opposite.

I could've seen Flash being like Corbin Bleu in High School Musical.

Flash also sounds like a sporty kind of nickname, not a nerdy nickname. And I agree that Revelori's Flash seems like no-one would like him. He seems to be the outcast whom everyone thinks is annoying and too full of himself and his own intelligence. He's like that annoying kid in class that no-one wants to hang around with who also enjoys putting others down and getting the top grades and flaunting it.

it also makes Peter stand out less when the rest of the gang is pretty smart.

the whole idea was that Peter felt like an outcast amongst the "popular" athletics-oriented crowd.

Peter looks like the coolest one out of that bunch of genius nerds. They could all make their own team Scorpion, and Peter would look like the leader and ladies man. He's not meant to stand out in that way.

 

[Ozbridge]

I think Feige did say Sony still had some creative control over the movie, despite that it was made by Marvel. If so, then what can I say, never underestimate Amy Pascal's stupidity.

Oh no, believe me, I'm no Feige apologist. If he was the one who came up with this nonsense, shame on him.

I don't want to be pedantic but Feige is the producer of all MCU films, yet if he came up with all the controversial decisions is still not confirmed for you (you said if right there). Yet just because Sony also has creative control over SMH, it's automatically assumed that Pascal's "stupidity" caused the film's controversial decision. ("If Sony has some creative control then obviously Pascal is responsible" is implied right there).

If that isn't double standard I don't know what is.

 

[Hypestyle]

Does Zendaya have a song on the soundtrack? She is a pop singer... Would be a good opportunity.

Side note: Did marvel copyright her character? If not, and this "Michelle" is totally original, then Sony/Columbia may claim the exclusive rights to her. Think back to what happened with the Whistler character in the Blade movies. New Line Cinema owns that character, he was never allowed to appear in the comics.

 

[Shikamaru]

This panel sums up why I don't like the idea of MJ eventually "becoming" MJ:

 

[SpeterMan3]

I know nothing about this dude, but here's his input on said spoiler topic.

https://***********/TheMasked_Demon/status/878803140564439040

edit: Not sure if this followup is related:
https://***********/TheMasked_Demon/status/878804673960046593

 

[fancyarcher]

I know nothing about this dude, but here's his input on said spoiler topic.

https://***********/TheMasked_Demon/status/878803140564439040

edit: Not sure if this followup is related:
https://***********/TheMasked_Demon/status/878804673960046593

Sounds like there's going to be some significant change at least, curious if it involves M.J. or not, but I try to enjoy these films regardless of said changes. It shouldn't bother people that much anyway.