Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 4

[Charmqn]

Kevin Feige talks about Michelle ( putting it behind spoilers for people that haven't seen the movie yet)

[Blackout] For Feige’s part, he wanted to tread carefully by underlining the fact that Zendaya is still playing a character named Michelle and not Mary Jane Watson. However, he will at least agree that calling Zendaya’s character an MJ of a different name does underscore she will have some similarities to comicdom’s most famous redhead.

“In setting up this will be a very different thing, she’s not Mary Jane Watson, that’s not who the character is.” Feige tells me. “But giving her the initials that remind you of that dynamic certainly is intriguing about what could go forward.”

Indeed, after we note that Michelle is keeping sharp eyes on Peter’s coming and goings (just like Mary Jane Watson did in Tom DeFalco’s run of The Amazing Spider-Man), Feige adds, “Clearly, she says she’s not obsessed with him, she’s just observant. But she’s there. And to have fun with that while at the same time having it be different characters that can provide a different dynamic [is the point].”

Feige explained that the logic of this was to take Peter Parker (and his supporting cast) in directions we haven’t seen before, be they auburn-fringed or otherwise.

“Peter’s had a lot of friends over the years in the comics, and a lot of schoolmates and characters he’s interacted with. It wasn’t just Mary Jane Watson; it wasn’t just Gwen Stacy; it wasn’t just Harry Osborn. So we were very interested in the other characters, and that’s where Liz came from and that’s where the version of the character Michelle came from.”

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/spider-man/266148/spider-man-homecoming-ending-kevin-feige-talks-some-surprises [/Blackout]

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

There's a bad kind of whoo? It was this kind.
[YT]j1FS4Dw8miI[/YT]

Thank you for this. Visuals are always good.

 

[MbJ]

I tried to find one without the visuals but that was one of the first that came up, haha.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

That was one of my favorite shows growing up and seeing that again made me laugh/smile. So I certainly didn't mind.

 

[terry78]

So she is MJ rebooted. She's Ultimate MJ. Feige is just being cryptic per usual. She will end up being his MJ.

 

[Legendver2]

I still don't understand why they can't play it straight with MJ. We've had one incarnation, with a reboot series in between where she doesn't show up at all, not nearly enough of a reason to do a whole reinvention. This is almost as bad as the Mandarin fakeout.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

So she is MJ rebooted. She's Ultimate MJ. Feige is just being cryptic per usual. She will end up being his MJ.

Basically. She may never actually be Mary Jane Watson but it's pretty clear from his comments that they will be taking some inspiration from the comics in developing both this version of MJ and her relationship with Peter. We can debate whether that's a good or bad idea and I totally understand why people hate it but personally, the changes don't really bother me. I thought from the beginning that they wanted to try something new/different with most of these characters and his comments affirm that.

 

[Ultraman]

Kevin Feige talks about Michelle ( putting it behind spoilers for people that haven't seen the movie yet)

[Blackout] For Feige’s part, he wanted to tread carefully by underlining the fact that Zendaya is still playing a character named Michelle and not Mary Jane Watson. However, he will at least agree that calling Zendaya’s character an MJ of a different name does underscore she will have some similarities to comicdom’s most famous redhead.

“In setting up this will be a very different thing, she’s not Mary Jane Watson, that’s not who the character is.” Feige tells me. “But giving her the initials that remind you of that dynamic certainly is intriguing about what could go forward.”

Indeed, after we note that Michelle is keeping sharp eyes on Peter’s coming and goings (just like Mary Jane Watson did in Tom DeFalco’s run of The Amazing Spider-Man), Feige adds, “Clearly, she says she’s not obsessed with him, she’s just observant. But she’s there. And to have fun with that while at the same time having it be different characters that can provide a different dynamic [is the point].”

Feige explained that the logic of this was to take Peter Parker (and his supporting cast) in directions we haven’t seen before, be they auburn-fringed or otherwise.

“Peter’s had a lot of friends over the years in the comics, and a lot of schoolmates and characters he’s interacted with. It wasn’t just Mary Jane Watson; it wasn’t just Gwen Stacy; it wasn’t just Harry Osborn. So we were very interested in the other characters, and that’s where Liz came from and that’s where the version of the character Michelle came from.”

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/spider-man/266148/spider-man-homecoming-ending-kevin-feige-talks-some-surprises [/Blackout]

I like it. It leaves things open. I think Feige will throw a curveball and introduce Mary Jane Watson down the line.

 

[jmc]

I just don't understand what the point in calling her MJ was. If you want to create a potential new love interest for Peter that's fine, but having her nickname be that of another well known SpiderMan character is just head scratching. Just call her Michelle and be done with it.

 

[X Knight]

I like it. It leaves things open. I think Feige will throw a curveball and introduce Mary Jane Watson down the line.

I hope so. but I'm not that optimistic at this point.

They'd have to make "MJ" a running gag where there are many MJs in Peter's life ( like there are many LLs in Clark Kent's life ).

or, they let Michelle "MJ" story arc run its course, she and Peter have a brief romance for a bit, but it doesn't work out. Aunt May then tries to introduce Peter to her friend's niece who's also called "MJ." Peter's like "Oh god!! Not another MJ!!" But then one day the new MJ shows up at Peter's door, and that's all the tiger jackpot wrote.

however, the chances of them doing that, imo, are slim.

you just don't throw around the initials "MJ" in a Spidey story.

even in that interview above with Feige, he basically acknowledges how important the name "MJ" is and what that stands for and what it means to Spidey fans.

they're basically trying to have Michelle "piggyback" on the meaning and history that MJ ( Mary Jane ) has with Peter, when, imo, Michelle in no way deserves that history.

Let Michelle create her own history with Peter and forge her own identity.

 

[X Knight]

I just don't understand what the point in calling her MJ was. If you want to create a potential new love interest for Peter that's fine, but having her nickname be that of another well known SpiderMan character is just head scratching. Just call her Michelle and be done with it.

no. that would be the simple and logical way to do it.

but yeah, I totally agree. this is the biggest head scratcher of them all.

what the h*** were they thinking??

 

[Mysteryman]

Someone hasn't seen X-Men Origins: Wolverine!

Lord, that made me laugh!
Good one.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I just don't understand what the point in calling her MJ was. If you want to create a potential new love interest for Peter that's fine, but having her nickname be that of another well known SpiderMan character is just head scratching. Just call her Michelle and be done with it.

This is where I'm coming from. There are two options here, and instead of going with A or B, they tried to do both, and it's just odd.

 

[X Knight]

Yes and no. Some are, but even though we're talking about a creative fictional endeavor, there still are objective aspects we can measure. Take origins. We know, from all the weapon x material we've read in the comics, that while Logan was working as an assassin, he wasn't a good dude. He was at one of his worst moments, and he more or less enjoyed killing. We also know, going off the Windsor-Smith Weapon X graphic novel, that a big focus of the program was stripping Logan of his humanity, which lead in part to the overarching themes of Wolverine as a character, the battle between his humanity and animalistic nature. The film never explores this. It comments on it a few times, but it's never shown. So, comparing how they portray Logan to the source material, it's not opinion to say they did not convey the character and the themes associated with him as he has always been depicted during the Weapon X years of his life.

We can also look at Flash. In the comics, we know that Flash bullies Peter for a few reasons.
1.) He's jealous of Pete's intelligence.
2.) He mistook Peter constantly running out to do Spider-man things as being a flake on his friends.
3.) He interpreted Peter's shyness as arrogance.

All those factors have been commented on at various points over the history of Spider-man in the comments. This Flash easily falls into that characterization. He's smarter than traditional Flash, but still not as smart as Peter, and clearly resents him for it. He doesn't look like traditional Flash, but in personality, he was pretty spot on. And that's something we can objectively measure.

Now, as to thinking that characterization is more important than appearance, you're right, that is opinion.

hey, at least this Flash retains the name Flash and some essence of the character.

 

[jmc]

no. that would be the simple and logical way to do it.

but yeah, I totally agree. this is the biggest head scratcher of them all.

what the h*** were they thinking??

It's actually not going to surprise me if they quietly retcon this in a few years.

 

[Ultraman]

I hope so. but I'm not that optimistic at this point.

They'd have to make "MJ" a running gag where there are many MJs in Peter's life ( like there are many LLs in Clark Kent's life ).

or, they let Michelle "MJ" story arc run its course, she and Peter have a brief romance for a bit, but it doesn't work out. Aunt May then tries to introduce Peter to her friend's niece who's also called "MJ." Peter's like "Oh god!! Not another MJ!!" But then one day the new MJ shows up at Peter's door, and that's all the tiger jackpot wrote.

however, the chances of them doing that, imo, are slim.

you just don't throw around the initials "MJ" in a Spidey story.

even in that interview above with Feige, he basically acknowledges how important the name "MJ" is and what that stands for and what it means to Spidey fans.

they're basically trying to have Michelle "piggyback" on the meaning and history that MJ ( Mary Jane ) has with Peter, when, imo, Michelle in no way deserves that history.

Let Michelle create her own history with Peter and forge her own identity.

Or they just won't have Mary Jane Watson use the 'MJ' nickname. Thing is, the people behind this decision (namely Feige) know the comics inside out. They also have a keen awareness of how fans will react. They aren't the usual brand of mindless studio execs.

Confident Feige has a specific reason why he's going this route with MJ, and I suspect there's some misdirection at play.

 

[Ultraman]

Spectacular show had pretty much 616 version of MJ in hs and that worked out fine.

a 14/15 year does NOT need to be a sexed up bombshell. but she can be cute and pretty. just like Liz is in this film. Liz is pretty ( and guys like Peter pine after her ) but Liz isn't some sexed up bombshell.

I'm actually thrilled Homecoming didn't focus on Peter's romantic relationships. That stuff bogged down the previous Spider-Man films. I think they wanted this one to be a fresh take and it worked.
The romance soap opera drama works in the comics because they are drawn-out extended stories. In a 2 hour film, I'd rather they keep the main focus on other things.

 

[Infinity9999x]

hey, at least this Flash retains the name Flash and some essence of the character.

Yep. I'd even argue more than the essence. He's pretty much a spot on flash aside from the look. The Michelle/MJ thing is just...odd.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Betty's changed background was probably the weirdest for me - particularly since she kind of looked like Gwen Stacey. I didn't see the need for a named character (particularly a potential Paker love interest) on such a minor background gag.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Betty's changed background was probably the weirdest for me - particularly since she kind of looked like Gwen Stacey. I didn't see the need for a named character (particularly a potential Paker love interest) on such a minor background gag.

Yep, especially when they pulled some really obscure names for the other high school kids. Cindy Moon, Sally Avril, Jason Ionello, etc. I'm sure the latter two were in the comics and Spectacular, but that's about it.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Nah. Tony is Flash. I think they are positioning him to be a good friend of Peter and part of his inner circle in the future. Apparently all the actors in the high school cast have solid chemistry.

Yep. Tony did a solid job. I was happy with it. They got the personality and the reasoning behind why he was a bully was all classic Flash.

 

[AlluAllu]

they're basically trying to have Michelle "piggyback" on the meaning and history that MJ ( Mary Jane ) has with Peter, when, imo, Michelle in no way deserves that history.

This seems like a valid summation.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Well I just read this wonderful article from yet another critic/fan gushing over Michelle/MJ. I especially loved this bit...

Michelle/M.J.—whose last name we still don’t know—will be even harder to box into damsel-in-distress territory, thanks to all the agency she’s been given already. Zendaya manages to pack the character with abundant personality in the few scenes she has, strongly piquing our interest to see what she can do with a bigger role in the next installment. The M.J. of the future is smart, cutting, and probably won’t be easily wooed by Parker’s web-slinging and superhero features. She’d rather make fun of him first.

You can read the full article here, if you like. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/07/zendaya-spider-man-homecoming-role?mbid=social_twitter (It does contain mild spoilers.)

 

[Jekecy]

I just don't understand what the point in calling her MJ was. If you want to create a potential new love interest for Peter that's fine, but having her nickname be that of another well known SpiderMan character is just head scratching. Just call her Michelle and be done with it.

Well the logical through-line is this character will evolve into the MJ we love. I think Feige at least has enough sense to not highjack that name and paste it onto a completely different character.

The mistake was not following through with some sort of promise to expect that. I genuinely thought either at the Homecoming dance, or in one of the end-credits scenes, there'd be some hint of the classic MJ (I was so hoping for the "Hey tiger..." entrance).

To leave it so vague and open isn't even failing to deliver a punchline, it couldn't finish the setup.

 

[rebellion]

this was just done to generate online chatter and additional buzz around the film. people can justify it all they want, but the way i see it, it is just a shock value marketing tactic that serves NO purpose. I expected more from marvel proper. i dont think i will stick around for this after avengers 4. it might sound dramatic, but to see spidey ruined in the comics and so drastically changed in the film is too much for me.