Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 21

[hellinas]

I'm wondering, given the fact that there is no magic in MCU, how can loki's powers be explained?

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Who said there was no magic? Just because they explain some Asgardian stuff as advanced science doesn't mean it all is.

 

[hellinas]

Who said there was no magic? Just because they explain some Asgardian stuff as advanced science doesn't mean it all is.

Kevin Feige in an interview said everything in Asgard is science

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Show me the interview and maybe I'll believe you.

But really, there's no way that science could explain Loki's powers.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

He says technology, not science. At least in the interview I found. Then he goes on to say when viewed under a different lens you could call it magic.

Point is, they're leaving it vague, which is the way to go imo. Nailing everything down kills the mystery and wonder.

One of the other ways you grounded Thor at the beginning is to say that the magic of the Norse gods is actually a form of science. In fact, all of the Marvel Studios films so far seem to be very science-based. Would that be the take on any magical characters? This is a science-fiction based universe, and any magic is just a form of science?

Well, I think as we get into the supernatural and Dr. Strange and things like that, there’s always other explanations for things. We’re very interested in that, as we were in Thor, to say, “Well, it might look like look like magic to you, but that’s technology to them.” There could be equal explanatory layers to any of the things that we put onto film from any of our comics, just because that’s interesting. Some days maybe the answer is, “No, you could look a million different ways, the answer is it’s magic.” Some characters will buy that, some characters won’t. That’s part of the interesting thing about this diverse universe we’re creating in the movies.

http://www.craveonline.com/film/int...erview-kevin-feige-on-thor-and-marvels-future

 

[Doc Ock]

So I got to see The Dark World on Wednesday, I loved it and need to watch it again but will probably wait for the Blu as the the theater experience was a grumpy one so I was in a bad mood. It definitely seems it is my favorite superhero film of the year over Iron Man 3 and Man of Steel (which I have not seen The Wolverine yet so that will be interesting) which is odd to say as Im more of a Superman fan but Marvel is doing exactly what I want with bringing their comic book movies to film and WB with DC is not unfortunately. Although I did enjoy MOS this film brought me much more joy and the ending was perfect. the special effects were pretty good too and the costume and character designs were great, I loved seeing more of Sif and The Warriors Three but sure wish there was more.

My only complaint was Malekith while a great villain wasn't a very developed one and the story seemed to be more about developing Loki's return more than anything else and I thought the after credits scene was kinda disappointing but still enjoyable. I also felt like the movie had so many characters but not enough of some, i felt like alot lf the Asgardians had scenes that didnt make the film. The mid-credits scene was fantastic though and has me PUMPED!

My hope only grows greater for someday having extended versions of both Thor films. I love the Asgard stuff. Hope to see more of the other realms in the future as well.

 

[Godzilla2000]

I'm wondering, given the fact that there is no magic in MCU, how can loki's powers be explained?

Matter manipulation using one's own subatomic matrix as the field of influence.

 

[kosh33]

Matter manipulation using one's own subatomic matrix as the field of influence.

Brilliant explanation!! that is just what us scientists would say... probably just need to make it 'energy from one's own subatomic matrix'

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Brilliant explanation!! that is just what us scientists would say... probably just need to make it 'energy from one's own subatomic matrix'

Ha. That actually does sound like what Reed Richards would say when asked how he would explain the phenomena of some one's superhuman power.

 

[Surfer]

Thor the Dark World has earned $180,055,000 as of November 29th in the US. and it looks like today November 30th it will surpass the total box office of the original Thor US. release amount of $181,030,624. So, Thor the Dark World will essentially be topping the total of the original Thor's US. box office in 23 days of it's release. I think it will be just over $200 Million in the US. box office before it is done.

Surfer

 

[metaphysician]

Ha. That actually does sound like what Reed Richards would say when asked how he would explain the phenomena of some one's superhuman power.

Indeed. I bet the Asgardians would role their eyes at it, though. They *like* poetry.

Also, it can be all that *and* be magic. . . because that's what 'magic' *is* in the setting: various weird forms of energy and manipulation, which the Asgardians happen to understand scientifically.

 

[Vartha]

Kevin Feige in an interview said everything in Asgard is science

and also what they have said in the movies is magic and science are the same thing on Asgard.
It IS science but is known as magic because we aren't that advanced and there's no other way to explain that FORM of science

 

[Whiskey Tango]

manipulation of unexplained and/or unnatural energies and phenomena = magic

manipulation of unexplained and/or unnatural energies and phenomena, except this time you know what you're doing and how it works = science

 

[Vartha]

manipulation of unexplained and/or unnatural energies and phenomena = magic

manipulation of unexplained and/or unnatural energies and phenomena, except this time you know what you're doing and how it works = science

Makes sense too me. lol

 

[Vartha]

wait....that would mean Kevin knows Magik!!! lol

 

[ctsketch]

magic is Asgardian science

 

[cherokeesam]

manipulation of unexplained and/or unnatural energies and phenomena = magic

manipulation of unexplained and/or unnatural energies and phenomena, except this time you know what you're doing and how it works = science

I agree with the general gist of it, but when you're talking about spellcasters who know what they're doing and how it works (Dr. Strange), they turn *magic* into a *science.* Strange's magic has definite rules, but those aren't natural laws. His magic is still gleefully defying Newton, Einstein and every other scientist in history.

 

[Doc Ock]

If the MCU explains what Dr. Strange can do as some kind of advanced science I won't too happy! I want Magic to exist, I understand much of the Marvel universe is based in science but there is plenty of unique magical characteristics as well. I mean how could characters like Ghost Rider or Mephisto be properly explained if they weren't magical but scientific? I don't mind Asgard being basically and advanced society but I want Loki, Enchantress, and others to be able to use magic and not just call it science. I dunno what to think about it. I suppose it works currently and I suppose it is explained well in the MCU but when Dr. Strange comes around I hope it changes.

 

[metaphysician]

I agree with the general gist of it, but when you're talking about spellcasters who know what they're doing and how it works (Dr. Strange), they turn *magic* into a *science.* Strange's magic has definite rules, but those aren't natural laws. His magic is still gleefully defying Newton, Einstein and every other scientist in history.

This isn't a contradiction, nor even a defiance. All of those scientific laws are descriptive and predictive, and they all have boundaries and limits to their descriptions and predictions. The fact that the magic is understandable and quantifiable is what makes it a science, not its cleaving to incomplete current scientific understanding.

 

[metaphysician]

If the MCU explains what Dr. Strange can do as some kind of advanced science I won't too happy! I want Magic to exist, I understand much of the Marvel universe is based in science but there is plenty of unique magical characteristics as well. I mean how could characters like Ghost Rider or Mephisto be properly explained if they weren't magical but scientific? I don't mind Asgard being basically and advanced society but I want Loki, Enchantress, and others to be able to use magic and not just call it science. I dunno what to think about it. I suppose it works currently and I suppose it is explained well in the MCU but when Dr. Strange comes around I hope it changes.

I think you are missing the actual issue: there is *no* dichotomy between magic and science. Something is not "not science" because its magic, not unless your using magic to just mean "not understood by science". . . which is a purely subjective and largely useless definition.

Science is not relativity, or quantum mechanics, or devices powered by electricity and gears. Science is learning about the universe by study and experimentation. Science doesn't *care* how the universe is put together, or what it contains; science is about finding out what the universe is, and what it contains, by actually looking at it. If that happens to include a dimension filled with souls and hellfire, and guys who can turn you into a toad by gesturing and willing it? Then those things are subject to scientific analysis and inquiry, just like the tendency of objects to fall towards each other is.

 

[ctsketch]

Kevin Feige in an interview said everything in Asgard is science

Science to Asgardians. Magic to us.

And Malaketh even called Frigga a witch

 

[cherokeesam]

This isn't a contradiction, nor even a defiance. All of those scientific laws are descriptive and predictive, and they all have boundaries and limits to their descriptions and predictions. The fact that the magic is understandable and quantifiable is what makes it a science, not its cleaving to incomplete current scientific understanding.

I think you are missing the actual issue: there is *no* dichotomy between magic and science. Something is not "not science" because its magic, not unless your using magic to just mean "not understood by science". . . which is a purely subjective and largely useless definition.

Science is not relativity, or quantum mechanics, or devices powered by electricity and gears. Science is learning about the universe by study and experimentation. Science doesn't *care* how the universe is put together, or what it contains; science is about finding out what the universe is, and what it contains, by actually looking at it. If that happens to include a dimension filled with souls and hellfire, and guys who can turn you into a toad by gesturing and willing it? Then those things are subject to scientific analysis and inquiry, just like the tendency of objects to fall towards each other is.

Great points; but in the final analysis, is it really fair to say "magic is just 'science' that hasn't been discovered yet?" Or that magic is just a new set of natural laws that supersede what scientists *thought* they knew about the universe? I mean, if that winds up being the case, then *everybody* could become a magician just by studying the new "rulebook." I don't think that's what they're aiming for.

I think magic is best understood as not being quantifiable. Aleister Crowley set down the most famous rule of magic: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." A lot of people misuse/misunderstand that as simply being a laissez faire approach to morality (i.e.: there's no such thing); but he was actually talking about willpower. If you will it to happen, it will happen. That's sheer wish magic, and isn't bound to any sort of natural law or quantifiable analysis.

 

[ctsketch]

Great points; but in the final analysis, is it really fair to say "magic is just 'science' that hasn't been discovered yet?" Or that magic is just a new set of natural laws that supersede what scientists *thought* they knew about the universe? I mean, if that winds up being the case, then *everybody* could become a magician just by studying the new "rulebook." I don't think that's what they're aiming for.

I think magic is best understood as not being quantifiable. Aleister Crowley set down the most famous rule of magic: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." A lot of people misuse/misunderstand that as simply being a laissez faire approach to morality (i.e.: there's no such thing); but he was actually talking about willpower. If you will it to happen, it will happen. That's sheer wish magic, and isn't bound to any sort of natural law or quantifiable analysis.

What is a book of spells with instructions? It's like a science textbook. When you understand something it becomes a science. Hell... Being a master at martial arts is an Art and a Science but just reading about it won't make you one, you have to understand and practice...like magic....like science

 

[samsnee]

That last kiss wasn't even Portman!

http://www.vulture.com/2013/12/hemsworth-kissed-a-portman-impostor-in-thor-2.html

 

[cherokeesam]

That last kiss wasn't even Portman!

http://www.vulture.com/2013/12/hemsworth-kissed-a-portman-impostor-in-thor-2.html

There should be a Loki Trollface gif in there somewhere....

Let the shipping commence