Tilda Swinton Cast as The Ancient One

[Kane52630]

The Cargill interview is now in video form for anyone that cares, just look under Double Toasted on youtube.

 

[Bren]

*travels all over the world looking for knowledge and power, arrives in Tibet to gain spiritual enlightenment from someone called the 'Ancient One'.
Finds middle aged bald Caucasian.*

 

[Pokkle]

The Cargill interview is now in video form for anyone that cares, just look under Double Toasted on youtube.

Pretty cool interview.
At 17 minutes 58.
[YT]eEpbUf8dGq0?t=17m58s[/YT]

 

[Monochron]

I wonder what they consider in the Ancient One's origin as being "very ugly history"?

They're referring to the really bad relations between China and the people of Tibet.

 

[Mike5575]

*travels all over the world looking for knowledge and power, arrives in Tibet to gain spiritual enlightenment from someone called the 'Ancient One'.
Finds middle aged bald Caucasian.*

Yes, in a movie dealing with parallel universes, astral projection, universes converging on one another, the singular thing that really stands out is Steven finding a white person in Tibet. Really? Really??

 

[Blade X]

They're referring to the really bad relations between China and the people of Tibet.

That's a BS excuse. This is the same company who has taken a stand against banning transgender people from using certain bathrooms in certain southern states by pulling their business out of those states, but they have a problem with upsetting the oppressive Chinese government all for the sake of the all mighty dollar. They are nothing more then a bunch of greedy hypocrites.

 

[Bren]

Yes, in a movie dealing with parallel universes, astral projection, universes converging on one another, the singular thing that really stands out is Steven finding a white person in Tibet. Really? Really??

Ancient Tilda to Strange, "thank goodness you arrived when you did! Almost passed my title to one of them asians!"

(this is a joke. just in case)

 

[Incredible Hans]

You know that PC has shot itself in the foot when it is considered racist that a white actress plays an old male Asian character AND at the same time it would be considered racist if an old male Asian actor played that character instead of her.

You know that PC has shot itself in the head when it is considered racist that a white actor plays a white superhero.

 

[Monochron]

That's a BS excuse. This is the same company who has taken a stand against banning transgender people from using certain bathrooms in certain southern states by pulling their business out of those states, but they have a problem with upsetting the oppressive Chinese government all for the sake of the all mighty dollar. They are nothing more then a bunch of greedy hypocrites.

I agree.

 

[Incredible Hans]

I agree.

I agree too.

A lot of the companies that boycott Georgia for not letting transgender people go to the bathroom of their choice do business with Saudi Arabia (where transgender people are put in jail and get flogged).

 

[Henshin]

That's a BS excuse. This is the same company who has taken a stand against banning transgender people from using certain bathrooms in certain southern states by pulling their business out of those states, but they have a problem with upsetting the oppressive Chinese government all for the sake of the all mighty dollar. They are nothing more then a bunch of greedy hypocrites.

It's about news coverage. Would anybody have cared if they'd gone on filming in Georgia and not kicked up a fuss? No, it just makes a good click bait story and more free advertising for Civil War.

In the case of Doctor Strange to them any news coverage is good coverage. Outside of comic nerds who the hell give a crap about Strange or knew who he was before now?
Disney puts their most controversial stuff in the first trailer to bait views, but also clear the air and knee-jerk think pieces way before the movie comes out. ("The Mandarin is so racist! Oh my god! A black stormtrooper? Another female lead! PC crap I'm so mad!") In this case it's Swinton and Cumberbatch's White But Pretty Asian magic journey. They are the entire focus of the trailer, and they know it looks dated. They put this in trailer 1 so when trailer 2 comes out and they actually show the calculated amount of ethnically diverse characters and full scope of the movie they can seem mighty and superior and squash critics.
In the end, to them it's simple numbers, they'd take the rap of 30,000 Western boycotters over losing a country of a billion. And they'll use the outrage to stir up awareness of the movie.

 

[Blade X]

I'm gonna leave this trailer for an upcoming Chinese movie right here. Nuff said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA0JVAeSibc

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA0JVAeSibc[/YT]

 

[mace1]

Check these out.


Race Changing and Diversity in Superhero Movies.
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=494673&page=18

and


Chinese Market Concerns Led To "Doctor Strange's" Ancient One Changes

or
http://community.comicbookresources...uot-Doctor-Strange-s-quot-Ancient-One-Changes

 

[Incredible Hans]

The Ancient One was a racist stereotype who comes from a region of the world that is in a very weird political place.

He was a stereotype, but certainly not racist.

 

[Endeavor]

They couldn't do that. He addresses that in the podcast..In fact having his birthplace in Beijing is at the core of the issue. He brings up Michelle Yeoh. Casting a chinese woman as a Tibetan character IS the political issue that would offend Tibetans.

http://mcuexchange.com/screenwriter...ange-to-be-different-from-other-marvel-films/

Ok. Fair point. They wanted to not hurt their chances of the Chinese government flagging them as inappropriate and looking for some excuse to ban the film, while at the same time not insult the Tibetan audience.
Stay neutral... Cool.
So how about you instead make the character Thai... Vietnamese... Cambodian... Korean? Or don't even mention the nationality at all.

The point is, there must have been other, inventive ways to get around the sensorship while still allowing the chance for an asian actor to take the role.

 

[Endeavor]

'a-hole communist dictators'... I do wonder who the 'political-propaganda-loving morons' really are...

Well, I don't impose my will on others and stop their freedom of expression or deny them choices.
So if you're trying implying I'm a dictator I don't see how that would apply. Nor do I understand the snide personal attack aimed in my direction...

As far as me calling them a-holes and disliking their modus operandi. Being somebody who has had to live under the yoke of similar regimes, I have an informed and justified right to express myself about them in such a manner.

 

[Incredible Hans]

Sometimes I think that the "bad guys" (racists) and the "good guys" (PC people) have one thing in common: they care way too much about race, especially if you keep in mind that race as a scientific concept is highly disputed.

Why the hell are we believing that a Japanese man and a Vietnamese man must have something in common because we see both of them as "Asian"? Their languages, cultures and mentalities are totally different.

 

[Endeavor]

Sometimes I think that the "bad guys" (racists) and the "good guys" (PC people) have one thing in common: they care way too much about race, especially if you keep in mind that race as a scientific concept is highly disputed.

Why the hell are we believing that a Japanese man and a Vietnamese man must have something in common because we see both of them as "Asian"? Their languages, cultures and mentalities are totally different.

I get your point. I really do.
Being a minority myself I encounter this way too often.

But we're really talking about something else here.
At least I am.
In the context of employment opportunities for minorities, particularly in Hollywood, we often hear the subject come up of many roles not being made available. Either because they aren't written with minorities in mind or because there is resistance to race-swap roles that were written as white characters.

So, since this is such a problem, having a character that was written as a minority being race-swapped for a non-minority actor is that much more frustrating.
To me, it's a step backwards. Even more so when the reasons for the change have nothing to do with the story.

 

[Incredible Hans]

I get your point. I really do.
Being a minority myself I encounter this way too often.

But we're really talking about something else here.
At least I am.
In the context of employment opportunities for minorities, particularly in Hollywood, we often hear the subject come up of many roles not being made available. Either because they aren't written with minorities in mind or because there is resistance to race-swap roles that were written as white characters.

So, since this is such a problem, having a character that was written as a minority being race-swapped for a non-minority actor is that much more frustrating.
To me, it's a step backwards. Even more so when the reasons for the change have nothing to do with the story.

I see your point too.

Yes, it is ridiculous that Chloe Bennett gets more and better roles as an actress when she calls herself Chloe Bennett instead of Chloe Wang. And it has to stop.

I'm just not sure that some things we're discussing here are really part of the solution.

My cousin is half Filipino and half German. She's great, but if she were an actress I'd see no reasons why she would be better suited to play the role of a Tibetan male than everybody else.

 

[Typhoon22]

Well since Marvel went with a female choice for the role (which is great, more diversity) as opposed to the stereotypical and slightly racist undertones of the role 50 years ago I'd like to ask.

Is there a better female actress than Tilda Swinton ? Isn't that the most important criteria for a role ?I find it hypocritical that people are ok with Chiwetel being cast yet not ok with Tilda just for the sake of diversity instead of what should matter the most you know...acting talent.

If the role wasn't stereotypical I'd be upset. If they hadn't cast one of the best female actresses I'd be even more upset. But they ended up casting the best actors/actresses in the business and that's all what matters to me.

The ironic part about this discussion is that the majority of people don't even know a single thing about the Ancient One and yet love to butt in first chance. I love the comics but I wasn't happy with how certain characters were portrayed.

 

[Endeavor]

What don't you like about how the ancient one was portrayed in the comics?

 

[Loki882]

Yeah because they're taking a prominent/important role away from an Asian actor (when there are so few opportunities for them in these types of films to begin with) and giving it to a White person.

And that's the difference between this an Mordo. You make a White character black and, there are still thousands of White comic characters out there. You make a minority one White, well there aren't nearly as many non-White characters to begin with, so it has more of an effect.

And again, they then shot themselves in the foot by essentially making her look like a "stereotypical" Asian monk/martial arts master anyway. Robes, shaved head, living in a temple/monastery, etc it's all there. They just made her White. This contradiction is pretty much the worst way that they could have gone with imo.

And the whole "oh they should cast based on talent" sounds like an excuse to me. Guess what, there are likely some really talented Chinese actresses out there that they could have cast.

And finally, when you have a movie that seems like it's spending a lot of time in Asia, has a lot of Asian philosophy/mysticism/aesthetics/etc, and is keeping a big chunk of Strange's traditional origin story seemingly, but the only main cast member who seems to be Asian is the freaking manservant, that's a problem for many people. And they're not wrong for thinking that, because it does stick out.

 

[Incredible Hans]

If I were in charge, an Asian actor would have played the Ancient One. Simply because I want comic movie characters to look like their comic book counterparts. And the Ancient One never was a racist stereotype, it was more of a racial stereotype. Like Germans with lederhosen or Scots with kilts. Stereotype yes, offensive no.

Actually, the Chinese themselves made a lot of kung fu flicks with stereotypical mystical old teachers like the Ancient One, and sureley the Chinese aren't racist against themselves.

However, as I said before, I also would have a white actor play Kingpin in the Daredevil movie, and then came Michael Duncan Clarke and it was good. Could be the same with Swinton.

Anyway, it seems that Marvel did that whole race & gender for political reasons (= old story of Tibet and China) and not for most of the reasons that are discussed here.

 

[Typhoon22]

Loki you're wrong about nearly everything. It's irrelevant how many white characters there are out there because it has nothing to do with this movie. Chiwetel is a great actor and his skin color should not matter as long as he is great at what he does. Same with Tilda. TAO is a title that is passed along not bound by an individual. This movie has a white man, a black man, a woman and an asian man. I don't see your point AT ALL. And Wong was a manservant in the comics. You're assuming he is going to be a manservant in this movie. Have you seen the movie ? Well then don't make assumptions. I am fairly certain that Marvel is not going to allow that to happen.

People who watch these movies associate Asians with these stereotypes (all Asians know the mystic and martial arts). You want to associate diversity with different viewpoints not strengthen that stereotype even further.

As a minority I find it strange that white people are often more offended by these things than I am but for certain movies they don't care. Movies like Gods of Egypt piss me off. Not this one. Not in the least bit. Why not cast them as a lead Star Wars character. But they're white too aren't they ? Both white women. And certainly not even remotely as talented as Tilda.

 

[BoredGuy]

#Non-troversy