TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 3

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Whilst I agree with almost everything you're saying, I can't really find the hate in me to give it below a 6 or 7.

There's so many moments that made me FEEL for Clark that I loved the way he was written especially when interacting with his parents and Lois.

But yeah, it was very very messy. My immediate reaction on leaving the theater was that it was edited/cut/finished by someone on slo-mo yet suffering from ADHD.
 
yeah, sorry about that, its a bit of a rant. but i had to get it off my chest i guess...i dont expect many people to read through all of it, nor does it seem like many people here would enjoy what i have to say, ha ha.

No worries mate! That's your opinion and you're definitely entitled to it. You wouldn't have posted that tome if you didn't care deeply about Superman :D.

Having said that, I disagree completely with almost everything you wrote.

No hard feelings though.
 
My thoughts on the film (don't read if a negative review is gonna bother you):

I went into this film ready to forgive a lot. I really WANTED to love it. I tried to ignore all the bad reviews, and just have faith that Goyer and Snyder could be trusted with my hero.

While I was watching the film, I was STILL TRYING to love it. Literally making effort to excuse what I was starting to realise was a badly developed plot and script; plot points that make little to no sense, character's lacking in clear motivation and scenes that felt much too short to have the impact they were trying too.

I was getting the hang of it. I'd started accepting this wasn't the level of quality i'd been hoping for, but it was still fun and Cavill was still doing an awesome job of looking gorgeous, as well as conveying Clark's natural warmth and sense of loneliness and conflict.

I was starting to think it would be okay, and that I could still walk out of the cinema going 'well, it's not an amazingly well made film, but I enjoyed it a lot'. I'm not even one of those people who was all that bothered by the level of destruction ... that was expected to me, and something that happened often in the cartoons.

But then we get to the final act, and Superman is holding Zod round the neck while he is shooting a strangely very badly aimed and slowly moving beam of heat vision at a family with small children. And instead of doing any number of other options to stop him shooting that beam of heat vision, he snaps his neck. Snaps. His. Neck.

In front of a family with small children.

And why? Because Zod says he's never going to stop. Right... Okay... I could ALMOST be on board with that. Maybe. If there had perhaps been more of a build up to that. And if he'd done it away from the small children. And in a situation where the scenes that immediately follow are discussions of how it shapes his no kill rule for the future.

Like maybe a return to the priest from the middle (which I kind of liked as a reference to For Tomorrow) to mull over what he did. Or a chat with Ma Kent. Or Lois. Or Jor-el.

But they don't.

They follow it with his cocky conversation with Swanwick, in which he says he's as American as they come, and a girl swoons over how hot he is.

They then go on to talk about how proud pa kent would have been of his boy.

Right...

I'm sorry, but I couldn't stop crying. I couldn't stop the heart breaking effect that had on me.

Not just because it happened in this movie. But because I know what it could mean for the character in general, and how it alters the balance of the DC universe.

....

Beyond that, I then start being a lot less forgiving with the rest of the film. And I have a whole coach ride home with a phone that's out of battery and nothing to read... So I had plenty of time to let all the annoyances that i'd been trying to block out when I still wanted to love the film, find their way to the surface.

Here we go.

First thing I wanna say, is that I don't understand why they kept talking about this film being 'grounded in realism', cause it's not. It is so far out there, and so full of half baked plot devices. Avengers is more grounded in realism than this film is, by a mile (and remember, this is coming from someone who was never particularly impressed with Avengers).

One of the main problems, is that for a film to really feel 'grounded in realism', it's characters have to have scenes in which they become tangible as human beings... have conversations that feel like real like conversations and not badly scripted hokey exchanges. Have motivations and decisions that come across as logical and understandable to us, rather than doing things because they suit the plot or seem 'cool'.

Shannon was okay. Take a moment to digest that. I mean, I love his performances in other films SOOOO much. But he was just okay?

It's just that there is just nothing much to the character. We keep being told that he has these motivations to save his planet and such, but that doesn't give us an insight in to what has to happen to a man in order for him to be okay with killing a whole planet full of people so he can make new people of his own... we don't know him, or why he's turned into such a monster, even though we're told vaguely that he once was a good man.

I don't really understand what the attack was about in the beginning either.

What exactly did Zod hope to achieve? How was he planning to save the planet? Cause to me it sounds like his plan was to just carry on doing what the council already had been, but with him in charge... yeah, great plan :whatever:

Then we have Jor-el, who thinks they should give up and let Krypton die off with one glimmer or kryptonian goodness still preserved out there somewhere. Odd way to feel about your entire race dying, but okay, whatever.

Then we move onto Pa Kent's ridiculous sacrifice that I will never understand in a million years.

I don't get why Clark couldn't just say 'No Dad, i'll go get the dog because I can do it quickly and safely and get back before the tornado hits, whereas you could get hurt and caught and die in the tornado cause your slower than me'.

That would be realism to me.

Instead, the superpowered teen let's his Dad run back to the car. Then he let's him get swept up by a tornado because his Dad says no and holds out his hand.

I don't know how we are supposed to take that as some noble decision, or a worthy reason for a good man like JK to die.

I've seen plenty of scenarios where someone will say 'No, don't save me, it's for the greater good'. But the hero always saves them anyway, despite what it means for them, cause that's what heroes do. They don't let people die to protect their secret... especially when it's not even to protect it forever, it's more of an 'it's not quite time yet... let me die so you can come out in a few years when your ready'.

Maybe if it had been dramatised a little better, and the scenario had seemed more like 'there was no way of saving him'... but it just felt stupid to me to try and make the decision to let his father die seem like one to be celebrated.

My final gripe with the film is the Clark/Lois relationship.

We have one scene were they meet and he saves her in the ship. Then we see her searching for him. Then he tells her the pa sacrifice story... and suddenly they are close friends?

That's ALSO not realism. I need a bit more than two conversations to feel that two people trust each other and support each other... which is what they go on to do for the rest of the film, but it just doesn't feel like it has any footing...

Half of how she was involved in the plot was so forced anyway... like why did Zod want her on the ship? She is brought on, and immediately shoved conveniently into the exact room with the key slot so she can talk to Jor-el... but there seems to be nothing that Zod actually wanted her for... which just seems kind of stupid.


Basically, overall this movie was already failing to be anything but a bad movie to me. And then it cemented itself as devestating.

I really really wanted to like it and forgive it's flaws. And I just couldn't. There were too many, and they were too big.

I was supposed to be watching it again tonight, but I couldn't bring myself to so soon, while the sting is still fresh :(

There were parts of it I liked. The action was great looking, the fights well put together (really liked the faora vs supes one), and I do think the cast fit their respective roles well even though the performances were nothing to shout about. And seeing Clark in the DP with the glasses on did bring a small smile back to my face (even though it's got the problem of 'how the hell did he get a job at the DP with no experience or references or even samples of writing?').

But other than that, it leaves me with a feeling of dread for the future of Superman :(
 
yeah, sorry about that, its a bit of a rant. but i had to get it off my chest i guess...i dont expect many people to read through all of it, nor does it seem like many people here would enjoy what i have to say, ha ha.

I agree with a lot you say but I still think its an okay film. Middle of the road but worth watching for the action and the glimmers of greatness that is in there now and then.
 
THEN SUPERMAN KILLS ZOD! WHAT…THE F***?! I literally sat there in the theater with my hands in the air, surrendered to confusion and disbelief. SUPERMAN DOES NOT KILL! At all. Ever. And the build up to it was so incredibly void of drama. Not to mention this was completely pointless! What does this do for the character other than demean everything he’s supposed to represent?! What does it do? What was the point of this? There is nothing “edgy” or “modern” about a Superman that can’t save the day without killing. NOTHING. There is no reason this couldn’t have been resolved without Superman killing Zod, and there is no reason to believe the film and characters would have been lesser for it.

Exactly how could they have done that? Would you expect Supes and Zod to simply stop, stand up and shake hands, and then go prancing off together with the Brady Bunch "It's a Sunshine Day" song playing? Exactly what other option did Supes have? Personally I'm glad they had him do that AND feel bad that he had to do that necessary thing to save lives.
 
Question (and I did see the movie): Was there ANY point at all to Zod requesting Lois to go up to the ship along with Superman when he handed himself over to them? I thought there was absolutely no purpose or point to her being there.
 
He had to die, I really don't understand the controversy. I did some research since I don't know much about Superman and ya know what Superman does kill. Kills quite a bit actually. It happens. Zod had to die
 
But, Clark finds what he’s looking for. We know this because he tells his mom “I found what I was looking for!” to which her reply sounds like “Oh that’s just great son, we’ll have to put it on the fridge.”

That I can never understand. Martha wasn't happy, she was putting on a brave face for her son and Clark saw this leading to an awkward dynamic between them. She was saying one thing, but the look in her face was another. And Clark later brought this up again by telling her that she could never get replaced. Just, really confused how anybody could think she was truly over joyed there and wondering how many others thought that.

I'm used to it. My adoptive parents saying one thing, while their face registers another. And many have claimed similar experiences. Just wondering how many of the GA similarly thought she sounded happy or proud. She was pretending and the actress pulled that off amazingly since it is really hard to say one thing yet mean another. It just rung true on so many levels as a "yeah, I've been there" moment.
 
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Question (and I did see the movie): Was there ANY point at all to Zod requesting Lois to go up to the ship along with Superman when he handed himself over to them? I thought there was absolutely no purpose or point to her being there.

There may have been but she screwed it up for them before they ever got a chance with her
 
Question (and I did see the movie): Was there ANY point at all to Zod requesting Lois to go up to the ship along with Superman when he handed himself over to them? I thought there was absolutely no purpose or point to her being there.
Maybe wanted her as a bargaining chip / hostage in case Supes got out of control.
 
Exactly how could they have done that? Would you expect Supes and Zod to simply stop, stand up and shake hands, and then go prancing off together with the Brady Bunch "It's a Sunshine Day" song playing? Exactly what other option did Supes have? Personally I'm glad they had him do that AND feel bad that he had to do that necessary thing to save lives.

there are multiple ways the issue could have been resolved. but yer attitude seems to show you lack the imagination to recognize or even consider the thought.
 
there are multiple ways the issue could have been resolved. but yer attitude seems to show you lack the imagination to recognize or even consider the thought.

That kind of answer, shows you lack the same. Couldn't even make one suggestion, huh?
 
Maybe wanted her as a bargaining chip / hostage in case Supes got out of control.

Also since she had been investigating the whole story, she could have known the possible location of the codex as well.

Just in case Kal didn't.
 
Question (and I did see the movie): Was there ANY point at all to Zod requesting Lois to go up to the ship along with Superman when he handed himself over to them? I thought there was absolutely no purpose or point to her being there.

Plot demanded it. I have no idea what she would know that Clark wouldn't. She would have only second hand info...which is useless when the primary source is there.
 
Exactly how could they have done that? Would you expect Supes and Zod to simply stop, stand up and shake hands, and then go prancing off together with the Brady Bunch "It's a Sunshine Day" song playing? Exactly what other option did Supes have? Personally I'm glad they had him do that AND feel bad that he had to do that necessary thing to save lives.

Really sick of seeing this kind of response.

It is not a question of murder OR skipping away holding hands.

There are plenty of options in the middle. Plenty.

Demanding specifics posters come up with their ideas for those options just so you can respond with how stupid you think those options are is not gonna work.

Superman has been stopping villains for years without killing them. And don't forget there were points in this movie were kryptonians were 'as weak as humans' on the ship. That's just one off the top of my head.

He had to die, I really don't understand the controversy. I did some research since I don't know much about Superman and ya know what Superman does kill. Kills quite a bit actually. It happens. Zod had to die

Batman's killed before too. Still wouldn't have wanted TDK to end with him snapping Joker's neck because he's yelling 'i'm never gonna stop killing people'.
 
That kind of answer, shows you lack the same. Couldn't even make one suggestion, huh?

i could suggest multiple things, i could suggest superman covering zod's eyes to block the beams and/or fly him away from the scene to a remote location where less civilians would be in danger, which is something he shoulda done about a half hour prior, and then utilize the kryptonian technology on hand to subdue and entrap zod back into the phantom zone. but im sure you'll have so many issues with that even though if that is what had happened in the movie no one would have been like "thats dumb, he shoulda just snapped his neck instead."
 
Question (and I did see the movie): Was there ANY point at all to Zod requesting Lois to go up to the ship along with Superman when he handed himself over to them? I thought there was absolutely no purpose or point to her being there.

Lois was the first human who Clark had opened up to. That told Zod that there was something about her and that he could use her as leverage. If Clark's mother was on-scene, he would have similarly taken her. Also, why did Clark trust her? He wound up in a position where he was forced to reveal himself and rather than act afraid, she stood by him. After going through years fearing that people will leave him or deem him a monster -- her single simple action there led Clark to trust her because she could have just as easily turned him in.
 
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There were parts of it I liked. The action was great looking, the fights well put together (really liked the faora vs supes one), and I do think the cast fit their respective roles well even though the performances were nothing to shout about. And seeing Clark in the DP with the glasses on did bring a small smile back to my face (even though it's got the problem of 'how the hell did he get a job at the DP with no experience or references or even samples of writing?').

lol now that you say it, that's so true. haha, he was just some drifter who has had some odds & ends jobs.

But, seeing as how this film glossed over a lot just to get to the next action piece, I'm sure the "how" of Clark suddenly becoming a reporter will not be explained in a sequel.
 
Really sick of seeing this kind of response.

It is not a question of murder OR skipping away holding hands.

There are plenty of options in the middle. Plenty.

Demanding specifics posters come up with their ideas for those options just so you can respond with how stupid you think those options are is not gonna work.

Superman has been stopping villains for years without killing them. And don't forget there were points in this movie were kryptonians were 'as weak as humans' on the ship. That's just one off the top of my head.



Batman's killed before too. Still wouldn't have wanted TDK to end with him snapping Joker's neck because he's yelling 'i'm never gonna stop killing people'.

Um he snapped his neck because that was his only choice. I don't want to hear oooh there are many things he could have done. No, no there's not. Don't compare Joker to Zod either. Joker you can apprehend, Zod you can not.
 
lol now that you say it, that's so true. haha, he was just some drifter who has had some odds & ends jobs.

But, seeing as how this film glossed over a lot just to get to the next action piece, I'm sure the "how" of Clark suddenly becoming a reporter will not be explained in a sequel.

Yup.

God, even Smallville's Clark had more journalistic experience before he got his job at the DP, and it still bugged me.

I guess I pick up on it more because I did Journalism at uni and actually want to be one... and you do NOT just walk into the leading newspaper of your city and get a job like that.

Only thing I could think is that Perry is in on it too?
 
Um he snapped his neck because that was his only choice. I don't want to hear oooh there are many things he could have done. No, no there's not.

Actually...well....there was. They just chose not to, and so you refuse to recognize that because you are unwilling to accept such detrimental criticism for this film.

Joker you can apprehend, Zod you can not.

Except, you can apprehend him. Every incarnation of his existence in fiction has been apprehended before.
 
lol now that you say it, that's so true. haha, he was just some drifter who has had some odds & ends jobs.

But, seeing as how this film glossed over a lot just to get to the next action piece, I'm sure the "how" of Clark suddenly becoming a reporter will not be explained in a sequel.


how did it gloss over things. There was little to no action til the last act. I think it was obvious that Perry White got him the job. Seriously guys do we just look at everything that isn't specifically explained and then complain about it.
 
Um he snapped his neck because that was his only choice. I don't want to hear oooh there are many things he could have done. No, no there's not. Don't compare Joker to Zod either. Joker you can apprehend, Zod you can not.

Zod was on equal footing with him. They would have just continued the fight throughout the city if Superman tried to take him away killing even more people. His only option was to do what Zod didn't see coming. He never thought Superman has it in him and he still doesn't, thus the immense pain that fills him afterwards due to having to do it.
 
I share a lot of your criticisms MM, although the film probably wasn't that bad for me. In fact I was frustrated because it seemed like they had some great ideas but the execution was so poor that it just muddled anything that was good about the film.

What concerns me is that I hope it's successful enough to move forward, but at the same time, if it's successful, then are Goyer and Snyder rewarded unjustly? I mean if the movie makes a killing it's going to make it hard to fire the director, which is absolutely what needs to happen.

I haven't given the film a star rating yet, because I feel I need to see it again. The first time I was just sitting there trying to figure out WTF they were thinking with some of this horrible choppy editing hack job, and the horrible pacing. But I will say this, I have no interest in seeing the next one if Snyder and Goyer are attached to it.
 
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