TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 3

[Snark88]

Just got back from seeing the film.

I honestly feel that this is one of the most glorious and spectacular cinematic train wrecks I think i've ever seen in my life time. Obviously there's worse movies, but the sheer waste of a talent, money and hype that was thrown at this film is not funny at all. If all you want to see is Superman fight bad guys and just an endless slew of nonstop action you're gonna get that. But it's simply amazing how much Zack Snyder failed at even the basics of movie making.

The pacing is a mess.
There's barely any good character development.
The action is repetative and way over the top.

The fight between Superman and Zod would've been more fitting as a fight with Doomsday in perhaps the 3rd film, where half the city is leveled in Superman's desperate attempt to stop the monster. But this is the first film (assuming a sequel gets made) and Zack Snyder just completely blew his load already on the action. He didn't hold back at all and that was a huge mistake. None of the levels of destruction in this movie was earned.

This was suppose to be their 2nd chance at bringing Superman to modern audiences and they failed imo, and with a 82% of the audience liking it according to RT, it's likely that number is gonna go down even farther by next week. This film is gonna divide people like Superman Returns did, but I think in this case MoS was worse. The problem with Superman Returns is that it failed at having Superman connect with the audience, simply because he was boring in that film, and everything else was just a homage to Superman The Movie. But AT LEAST Superman Returns was a properly structered film.

Man of Still on the other hand doesn't even give a crap. It just throws a bunch of things at you in the first half, just so it can get to the 2nd and blow stuff up in your face for an hour. I'm sure Man of Steel will make a good amount of money over the weekend, but after that i'm expecting a big drop by the time the 2nd week rolls around.

I'd be surprised if a sequel gets made at this point. I can't believe this happened again man. Superman, hell DC fans, can't seem to catch a break.

 

[jacobed]

Actually...well....there was. They just chose not to, and so you refuse to recognize that because you are unwilling to accept such detrimental criticism for this film.

Ok what could he have done. Let him go and keep fighting. Alright there's an option but that is going to get no one anywhere. Um lets see here, knock him out alright how the hell are you going to do that, Zod is ridiculously durable as they've shown. Hmm can't really throw him in jail, he can break through anything. Hmmm, yeah having trouble here.

 

[Ultimatehero]

how did it gloss over things. There was little to no action til the last act.

Exactly. When going into it, I thought it was going to be balls-to-the-wall action. The movie was 2 hrs and 20 minutes, the action only took up 40 minutes most likely. So, you have 40/140 geared towards action and 100/140 towards character and story. This was primarily a character and story driven movie since only 28% of it was action.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I share a lot of your criticisms MM, although the film probably wasn't that bad for me. In fact I was frustrated because it seemed like they had some great ideas but the execution was so poor that it just muddled anything that was good about the film.

What concerns me is that I hope it's successful enough to move forward, but at the same time, if it's successful, then are Goyer and Snyder rewarded unjustly? I mean if the movie makes a killing it's going to make it hard to fire the director, which is absolutely what needs to happen.

I haven't given the film a star rating yet, because I feel I need to see it again. The first time I was just sitting there trying to figure out WTF they were thinking with some of this horrible choppy editing hack job, and the horrible pacing. But I will say this, I have no interest in seeing the next one if Snyder and Goyer are attached to it.

I feel so strongly against this film that i'd rather it not be continued, i dont think it has anything worth continuing. But should it continue, i hope its with a completely different creative team.

 

[silentrascal]

i could suggest multiple things, i could suggest superman covering zod's eyes to block the beams and/or fly him away from the scene to a remote location where less civilians would be in danger, which is something he shoulda done about a half hour prior, and then utilize the kryptonian technology on hand to subdue and entrap zod back into the phantom zone. but im sure you'll have so many issues with that even though if that is what had happened in the movie no one would have been like "thats dumb, he shoulda just snapped his neck instead."

Wow. And suppose Zod wriggled his head away and continued blasting away. I guess Supes would have given up and said "he's too good, guess I have to let those people die", right? And as for flying him away from the scene, I guess Zod would have just laid there and let him do that? And what other Kryptonian technology could he have used to try and send him back to the Phantom Zone? The only real option was already used and destroyed the first time with Colonel Hardy when Faora bit the big one.

 

[KalMart]

Really sick of seeing this kind of response.

It is not a question of murder OR skipping away holding hands.

There are plenty of options in the middle. Plenty.

Demanding specifics posters come up with their ideas for those options just so you can respond with how stupid you think those options are is not gonna work.

Superman has been stopping villains for years without killing them. And don't forget there were points in this movie were kryptonians were 'as weak as humans' on the ship. That's just one off the top of my head.



Batman's killed before too. Still wouldn't have wanted TDK to end with him snapping Joker's neck because he's yelling 'i'm never gonna stop killing people'.

i could suggest multiple things, i could suggest superman covering zod's eyes to block the beams and/or fly him away from the scene to a remote location where less civilians would be in danger, which is something he shoulda done about a half hour prior, and then utilize the kryptonian technology on hand to subdue and entrap zod back into the phantom zone. but im sure you'll have so many issues with that even though if that is what had happened in the movie no one would have been like "thats dumb, he shoulda just snapped his neck instead."

I think it would have been better if Supes had suffocated Zod instead of the rather gruesome snapping of his neck....a slower choke and fade out of the heat vision, etc.. It would have done more to let us sink into the sadness of the only other Kryptonian survivor meeting his end, and the reluctance of making the impossible choice Superman was left with....almost cradling the lifeless Zod out of pity at the end.

I was okay with Superman being forced to kill, I just thought it should have been done more poignantly/poetically....almost like a mercy kill in this case.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Um he snapped his neck because that was his only choice. I don't want to hear oooh there are many things he could have done. No, no there's not. Don't compare Joker to Zod either. Joker you can apprehend, Zod you can not.

1) Even if killing him was his only choice, snapping his neck in front of small children was NOT his only choice...

2) I just gave you a plot point from earlier in the film that could have been used to apprehend him... the ship made the kryptonians as weak as humans.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Ok what could he have done. Let him go and keep fighting. Alright there's an option but that is going to get no one anywhere. Um lets see here, knock him out alright how the hell are you going to do that, Zod is ridiculously durable as they've shown. Hmm can't really throw him in jail, he can break through anything. Hmmm, yeah having trouble here.

as i said previously, they had the kryptonian technology available to apprehend him, to even return him to the phantom zone. Zod's ship had the technology to nullify their powers, a prison could have been made from that technology.

 

[jacobed]

1) Even if killing him was his only choice, snapping his neck in front of small children was NOT his only choice...

2) I just gave you a plot point from earlier in the film that could have been used to apprehend him... the ship made the kryptonians as weak as humans.

it is when you have to make a snap decision before a family gets fried.

I don't think you watched the movie, there are no more ships. They're gone

 

[Autonet]

Punch him the back and paralyze him? Anyone? Choke him out then use the FoS (still kinda intact) to send him somewhere? Hell if I know...

 

[Ultimatehero]

I think it would have been better if Supes had suffocated Zod instead of the rather gruesome snapping of his neck....a slower choke and fade out of the heat vision, etc.. It would have done more to let us sink into the sadness of the only other Kryptonian survivor meeting his end, and the reluctance of making the impossible choice Superman was left with....almost cradling the lifeless Zod out of pity at the end.

Superman can't kill. He did the fastest method to get it over with. I really doubt anyone here could easily suffocate someone to death. Also imagine how much Zod would be struggling - could he even do it? He did it in the fastest, least painful way possible a fast death rather than drawing it out which is the cruel death.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I think it would have been better if Supes had suffocated Zod instead of the rather gruesome snapping of his neck....a slower choke and fade out of the heat vision, etc.. It would have done more to let us sink into the sadness of the only other Kryptonian survivor meeting his end, and the reluctance of making the impossible choice Superman was left with....almost cradling the lifeless Zod out of pity at the end.

I was okay with Superman being forced to kill, I just thought it should have been done more poignantly/poetically....almost like a mercy kill in this case.

Same. I'd sort of made my peace with it, but understood that it was going to play out in a different way (and didn't know it'd be neck snapping).

I agree with what Mark Waid said as well, there needed to be more build up to that moment if we were supposed to really feel there was no other choice... I mean, they'd barely been going at it a min before Supes figures 'screw it, just end it'.

 

[ares834]

Batman's killed before too. Still wouldn't have wanted TDK to end with him snapping Joker's neck because he's yelling 'i'm never gonna stop killing people'.

I'm not sure why people keep bringing up TDK as an example for heroes not killing. Batman does kill in that film. Right at the end.

 

[Anita18]

There may have been but she screwed it up for them before they ever got a chance with her

After she gets rescued by Supes, she says they looked into her mind. That's presumably where Zod learns where Martha Kent (and Kal's ship) is.

I mean, I'm sure it wouldn't have killed them to actually show that or anything.

Just a lot of odd decisions, but nothing dealbreaking for me.

 

[Ultimatehero]

it is when you have to make a snap decision before a family gets fried.

I don't think you watched the movie, there are no more ships. They're gone

Exactly in that second, Zod realized what it would take to break Superman down. If it wasn't that family, he would have gone a killing spree aiming specifically at the people. If he fought, they would have killed more people. If he tried to subdue him there was a chance that Zod would break free and Superman would need to try to stop him again - killing even more people. And "ah, screw it - just took a minute" LOOK at how many people died in that one minute. It had to stop in the only way possible to save as many as possible. I wonder how people would think if it was Doomsday he was fighting and Superman killed him -- because this was, more or less, that fight just with Zod.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Wow. And suppose Zod wriggled his head away and continued blasting away. I guess Supes would have given up and said "he's too good, guess I have to let those people die", right? And as for flying him away from the scene, I guess Zod would have just laid there and let him do that? And what other Kryptonian technology could he have used to try and send him back to the Phantom Zone? The only real option was already used and destroyed the first time with Colonel Hardy when Faora bit the big one.

the ships were powered by phantom engines which was the same technology they used to power their phantom zone projectors. as i stated before, if they wanted to trap them in the phantom zone, all they had to do was team up Dr. Emil Hamilton with the Jor-El program to engineer the phantom engine in clarks ship to be utilized as a phantom zone projector. Or, use the technology from Zod's ship which nullified their powers to create a prison for them. The film constantly introduced non-sensical almost magical technology to blindly service the plot to the point. There are so many options, all they had to do was write the story in a way that services the purposes of the characters...but they pointlessly chose not to.

 

[J.Howlett]

Just returned from a 2D IMAX screening and cinematic nirvana has been achieve, for this viewer. Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy. Webb's Amazing Spider-Man story. And now Snyder's Man of Steel story.

I can pretty much quit this genre from here on out. More later but incredible if a tad inelegant in it's structure in the first hour. Having said that, I won't make a true final judgement on this film until it hits home video because I know this thing is going to get a slightly longer extended cut, solely to smooth out that first hour. I have no proof except for Snyder's home video history. This thing is getting an extended cut.

As it stands in it's theatrical form:

The Dark Knight
Watchmen The Ultimate Cut
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman Begins
Man of Steel

Welcome to the rebirth of the last son of Krypton. Welcome to the birth of the DC Universe.

Game Over, fellas.

 

[Sup3rman81]

I have come to realize that even beyond RT this movie is a critical success and its a success with moviegoers. The people who don't like it that's fine and so be it. You can wait for them to reboot it several years from now after Snyder has finished his trilogy and Justice League. For now the fans of MOS can relish our moment. People hate Nolans Batman and complained about it but those complainers will get a new Batman soon as well.

 

[jacobed]

the ships were powered by phantom engines which was the same technology they used to power their phantom zone projectors. as i stated before, if they wanted to trap them in the phantom zone, all they had to do was team up Dr. Emil Hamilton with the Jor-El program to engineer the phantom engine in clarks ship to be utilized as a phantom zone projector. Or, use the technology from Zod's ship which nullified their powers to create a prison for them. The film constantly introduced non-sensical almost magical technology to blindly service the plot to the point. There are so many options, all they had to do was write the story in a way that services the purposes of the characters...but they pointlessly chose not to.

I'm sorry but ya gotta stop with this whole using their technology thing. There are no more ships, they're gone.

 

[Sharkboy]

Just returned from a 2D IMAX screening and cinematic nirvana has been achieve, for this viewer. Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy. Webb's Amazing Spider-Man story. And now Snyder's Man of Steel story.

I can pretty much quit this genre from here on out. More later but incredible if a tad inelegant in it's structure in the first hour. Having said that, I won't make a true final judgement on this film until it hits home video because I know this thing is going to get a slightly longer extended cut, solely to smooth out that first hour. I have no proof except for Snyder's home video history. This thing is getting an extended cut.

As it stands in it's theatrical form:

The Dark Knight
Watchmen The Ultimate Cut
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman Begins
Man of Steel

Welcome to the rebirth of the last son of Krypton. Welcome to the birth of the DC Universe.

Game Over, fellas.

Of course you would love it, hell I could have told you this before you saw it. I know your taste Howlett. t:

 

[Anita18]

I'm not sure why people keep bringing up TDK as an example for heroes not killing. Batman does kill in that film. Right at the end.

In the process of directly saving another, just like Supes did. And he didn't regret it one bit. Nor did he regret having to "let Ra's die" either.

I think Superman is generally expected to be "better" than Batman in that regard, but I'm actually glad they took the drama that far. But then again I'm not a huuuuge Supes fan and I'm open to all kinds of interpretations of his characterization.

And I'd make the argument that if Batman was faced with a truly unstoppable being like Zod (vs Joker who CAN be physically contained), he'd do the same thing. I mean, if he physically could.

 

[jacobed]

Same. I'd sort of made my peace with it, but understood that it was going to play out in a different way (and didn't know it'd be neck snapping).

I agree with what Mark Waid said as well, there needed to be more build up to that moment if we were supposed to really feel there was no other choice... I mean, they'd barely been going at it a min before Supes figures 'screw it, just end it'.

Not enough build up?

Wow what do you want 10 minutes of him contemplating. He's basically begging Zod to stop. Practically crying and begging him to stop. How much more build up do you want, you can see in his face that doesn't want to. Cavil freakin destroyed that scene. I swear with some these its like you guys didn't even watch the movie.

 

[Sharkboy]

Same. I'd sort of made my peace with it, but understood that it was going to play out in a different way (and didn't know it'd be neck snapping).

I agree with what Mark Waid said as well, there needed to be more build up to that moment if we were supposed to really feel there was no other choice... I mean, they'd barely been going at it a min before Supes figures 'screw it, just end it'.

Aww...you didn't like it? I was almost certain that you'd end up enjoying this one.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I'm sorry but ya gotta stop with this whole using their technology thing. There are no more ships, they're gone.

because they had them all get sucked into some stupid non-sensical black hole, which some how they know will be created when they smash together phantom engines, which they also believe will cease to exist shortly after rather than continue sucking up the rest of the planet, and which they believe will only suck up the bad guys in the immediate area and not the rest of the city and citizens right below it. guess what, instead of sucking everyone into a stupid magic black hole, actually utilize the technology to simultaneously serve the plot and characters. god forbid we get some competent writing in this movie.

 

[Sup3rman81]

the ships were powered by phantom engines which was the same technology they used to power their phantom zone projectors. as i stated before, if they wanted to trap them in the phantom zone, all they had to do was team up Dr. Emil Hamilton with the Jor-El program to engineer the phantom engine in clarks ship to be utilized as a phantom zone projector. Or, use the technology from Zod's ship which nullified their powers to create a prison for them. The film constantly introduced non-sensical almost magical technology to blindly service the plot to the point. There are so many options, all they had to do was write the story in a way that services the purposes of the characters...but they pointlessly chose not to.

Well Zod shut down Jor el and Dr. Hamilton had no clue how it all worked. That would have been a terrible plot hole to have the humans assume they knew kryptonian technology and could harness it to create a new phantom zone. Even Clark didn't know how it all worked. Its obvious people are going to nit pick this movie to death like they did TDK and TDKR. I could nit pick every movie too but then I wouldnt enjoy a single one