Trophy Hunting

[Mechanix]

In light of the recent killing of a beloved lion in Zimbabwe, I thought I would start a thread about trophy hunting. I put it in the Politics section because the debate about whether trophy hunting contributes or detracts from conservation efforts has become quite widespread and I think it's worthy of further debate here.

So, what does everyone think? Does the money that people pay to kill endangered animals like lions, elephants, rhinos, etc actually go towards conservation efforts? Have we seen an increase in populations due to trophy hunting, or are more permits being sold than animals being saved?

You can read more about Cecil the lion here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33699346


Disclaimer: I'm not talking about hunting for food/supplies/sustenance/survival here. I'm talking specifically about trophy hunting as defined as :a specific and selective legal form of wildlife use that involves payment for a hunting experience and the acquisition of a trophy by the hunter[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]". [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[OcStat]

Countless species are in decline due to human causes, and some people want to kill the few that are left to make themselves feel tough.

I think it's pretty bogus.

 

[Taarna]

Not a fan of hunting for trophies that involve killing the animal. Where you do draw the line on the species?

I guess I'd be okay with a A tranquillizer gun for photos and measurements ( For stuffing ) for a large fee which went to a wild life fund as an option to replace hunting.

 

[DeadPresident]

Trophy hunting is probably a symptom of a personality disorder.

 

[Schlosser85]

Just goes to show money doesn't buy class. Or a soul.

 

[NYR94]

I'm all right with it.

 

[Schlosser85]

Big shocker there.

 

[Marvolo]

The person who did this is a POS. When a lion kills it kills for survival and sustenance. This POS scum killed for pride and vanity. **** him. Maybe Karma will pay him a visit and he wont be so lucky on the next hunt.

 

[SV Fan]

I personally don't get trophy hunting. What exactly do people get out of killing an animal for the sake of killing it, especially ones that are threatened for extinction like lions. You want to go shoot an animal go kill a deer, take the meat from that and eat it.

Hopefully this killing can shine a light on this stupid practice and stop it in the future

 

[Mechanix]

Apparently, trophy hunting can help conservation efforts. The locals can make money by allowing wild game to live on their land and they protect the animals to eventually be killed by hunters.

It's a sad state of affairs when killing animals is needed to protect them.

 

[Marvolo]

They know who killed the lion and its a ****ing dentist from Minesota.

- A Zimbabwean court on Wednesday charged a professional hunter (Theo Bronkhorst) with failing to prevent an American (Walter James) from unlawfully killing 'Cecil', the southern African country's best-known lion, in a case that has triggered widespread revulsion at trophy hunting.

The American, Walter James Palmer, a Minnesota dentist who paid $50,000 to kill the lion, has left Zimbabwe. He says he did kill the animal but believed the hunt was legal and that the necessary permits had been issued.

Local hunter Theo Bronkhorst appeared in a courthouse in Hwange, 800 km (500 miles) west of Harare, and was charged with "failing to supervise, control and take reasonable steps to prevent an unlawful hunt."

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/55b9150de4b0074ba5a72b43?

At least one of them is being charged for this. Too bad the actual killer is going to get away with it.

 

[DeadPresident]

Apparently, trophy hunting can help conservation efforts. The locals can make money by allowing wild game to live on their land and they protect the animals to eventually be killed by hunters.

It's a sad state of affairs when killing animals is needed to protect them.

As a South African with a fair amount of friends and family that have been involved in various game reserves I can tell you for the most part that that is absolute bull****, unfortunately. Zimbabwe and SA border one another, and have pretty much the same socioeconomic culture and outlook on their wildlife.

In actuality what happens is hunters pay X amount that is claimed will go to conservation, but that ends up in a massive fund that is ultimately mismanaged or just plain embezzled. Private game farm owners can't even protect their own game that they keep for non-hunting purposes from poachers, let alone disinterested and underfunded "conservation" staff trying the same. The most popular form of hunting is basically canned hunting, where private game farms breed various high priced game like lions, leopards, and buffalo to be killed frequently and only for profit.

If you want to see how to do conservation correctly look up Botswana's approach to protecting their dwindling rhino population, i.e lethal force policy against poachers and their military is tasked with assisting in protecting the rhino.

Edit: Just read the huffington article, in there it says the game park owner cooperated with Bronkhorst, it's more evidence for what I posted above. Game park owner wants cash, brokers deals (illegally) with a guy like Bronkhorst to sell hunts to unaware tourists and they divide the money between the two of them. In all likelihood anyways.

 

[Victarion]

I don't see the appeal of it or understand what the hunter gets from it, so I don't have a stance on it. Glad they're taking steps to crackdown on the illegal hunts.

 

[Mechanix]

As a South African with a fair amount of friends and family that have been involved in various game reserves I can tell you for the most part that that is absolute bull****, unfortunately. Zimbabwe and SA border one another, and have pretty much the same socioeconomic culture and outlook on their wildlife.

In actuality what happens is hunters pay X amount that is claimed will go to conservation, but that ends up in a massive fund that is ultimately mismanaged or just plain embezzled. Private game farm owners can't even protect their own game that they keep for non-hunting purposes from poachers, let alone disinterested and underfunded "conservation" staff trying the same. The most popular form of hunting is basically canned hunting, where private game farms breed various high priced game like lions, leopards, and buffalo to be killed frequently and only for profit.

If you want to see how to do conservation correctly look up Botswana's approach to protecting their dwindling rhino population, i.e lethal force policy against poachers and their military is tasked with assisting in protecting the rhino.

Edit: Just read the huffington article, in there it says the game park owner cooperated with Bronkhorst, it's more evidence for what I posted above. Game park owner wants cash, brokers deals (illegally) with a guy like Bronkhorst to sell hunts to unaware tourists and they divide the money between the two of them. In all likelihood anyways.

Thanks for the info

I didn't know Botswana had such strict policies regarding rhinos. Good for them. I know the white rhino population has recovered in recent years, which is nice to hear. I hope they can do the same for the lions.

I don't believe trophy hunters when they say that their interests lie in conserving the animals because it wouldn't be good for them if the populations dwindled. On the contrary, I think any one of those bastards would consider themselves honoured to be the last person to ever hunt a lion or elephant. The more rare and exclusive their hunt, the better the bragging rights. They are purely in it for themselves.

 

[DeadPresident]

Thanks for the info

I didn't know Botswana had such strict policies regarding rhinos. Good for them. I know the white rhino population has recovered in recent years, which is nice to hear. I hope they can do the same for the lions.

I don't believe trophy hunters when they say that their interests lie in conserving the animals because it wouldn't be good for them if the populations dwindled. On the contrary, I think any one of those bastards would consider themselves honoured to be the last person to ever hunt a lion or elephant. The more rare and exclusive their hunt, the better the bragging rights. They are purely in it for themselves.

Any time

One of Botswana's main sources of revenue is wildlife tourism, so if some of their main attractions go extinct it'll be quite bad for their economy. The other contributing factor is most of southern Africa is in China's back pocket, and they have a massive demand for ivory and sundry wildlife "products" because of their stupid belief in traditional medicine - hence rhino horn being the most valuable ivory. Botswana on the other hand though doesn't have strong ties with China and isn't allowing them to plunder what natural resources they have.

Botswana is also run by a semi-dictator, probably the only benevolent one on the continent. It's a source of pride for him that his wildlife (particularly rhino) and his country's population are flourishing. He doesn't want any sociopathic bored westerners ruining that for them. Unfortunately everywhere else the rhino are dropping like flies, the stat in the huffpost article is fairly accurate, it's at least two a day lately. The wild lion population may be alright, but there's a massive market for farmers that breed lions that end up being semi-tame only for them to be let loose in a 10 square kilometer piece of ground to be shot and mounted at $50,000 a pop.

 

[jmc]

Animals should only be culled if there are genuine reasons to do so, and it should be done by park rangers and park rangers only. Hunting for the primary reason of taking a photograph of you smiling with the dead corpse, and not for the purpose of consumption as food, is an appalling act. It's wasting life for the sake of it.

 

[titansupes]

I think the whole situation is sickening and I hope that lousy, cowardly mother ****er is hit with the full consequences.

 

[Mani-Man]

I would understand it if those hunters would hunt with an old school bow or a spear or a knife.

But sitting in their jeeps or safe distance and pulling the trigger of a gun or crossbow is just cowardly.

In general i dont get whats so great about killing another creature for fun.
But humans are known to be low and disgusting.

 

[moviedoors]

I'm tired of there being a distinction made between people who hunt for sport and those that hunt for sport but also eat the animal, as though it's more noble. So what if you eat it? An American in 2015 doesn't need to hunt to feed them-self.

 

[SV Fan]

I'm tired of there being a distinction made between people who hunt for sport and those that hunt for sport but also eat the animal, as though it's more noble. So what if you eat it? An American in 2015 doesn't need to hunt to feed them-self.

Unless you are a vegetarian hard to have any moral high ground of hunters who eat the meat. I do think there is a huge difference between killing animals to eat and killing animals for sport

 

[moviedoors]

Unless you are a vegetarian hard to have any moral high ground of hunters who eat the meat. I do think there is a huge difference between killing animals to eat and killing animals for sport

Well, I think it depends. Yeah, there's people who do need to hunt to eat. But in America? It's just such a silly line of reasoning. I have various family members who hunt and eat their kills, but the food isn't the point, the kill is. And that's fine! Just don't obfuscate.

 

[Victarion]

Devil's advocate:

1. It isn't illegal (well, the dentist's trip was, but in general)
2. They enjoy the challenge?
3. No animal cruelty involved

 

[jmc]

I think the animal suffering for 40 hours constitutes cruelty.

 

[BestGirl]

Animals should only be culled if there are genuine reasons to do so, and it should be done by park rangers and park rangers only. Hunting for the primary reason of taking a photograph of you smiling with the dead corpse, and not for the purpose of consumption as food, is an appalling act. It's wasting life for the sake of it.

I thought I was the only person who had this idea.

Well, I think it depends. Yeah, there's people who do need to hunt to eat. But in America? It's just such a silly line of reasoning. I have various family members who hunt and eat their kills, but the food isn't the point, the kill is. And that's fine! Just don't obfuscate.

I see nothing fine about killing for amusement.

 

[moviedoors]

I see nothing fine about killing for amusement.

Honestly, that was a wishy-washy political answer on my part. I actually do have a problem with it on a personal level to a certain degree. What that degree is, I'm not sure yet, but I do know I tire of hearing hunters go-on about the sport of it, the oneness with nature, the conservation reasons, but leave out the part about how they really really wanna ****in kill something.