The Dark Knight Rises Two-Face in the Third Film?

[spideymouse]

Everyone knows that Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face in TDK. What no one knows for sure is:

Spoiler

whether Two-Face lives or dies at the end. Yes, yes, I know, it surely seems like he's dead.

This thread specifically discusses the possible role of Harvey Two-Face in the third Batman movie. There doesn't seem to be such a thread in this forum (I've searched and haven't found one). Say what you will about the Riddler and Catwoman; Two-Face at least deserves some discussion. Besides, I'd love to see Aaron Eckhart reprise his role.

Also, I think I have a good idea of how to use him in the next film. Others have probably stated similar ideas, so if you're one of them, why not put them here? Here's my idea (Spoilers):



To start, I agree with others in this forum that redemption would be a great theme for BB3. At the end of TDK, Gordon and Batman "risked it all" on Dent, so they led Gotham to believe that Harvey Dent "died a hero" and that Batman killed 5 people, including two cops. But we know the truth, that Dent actually "lived long enough to see himself become the villain" as Two-Face. I think the third film should be about Batman dealing with the consequences of making Harvey Dent/Two-Face Gotham's hero and making himself Gotham's villain.

I would like to see BB3 reveal that Dent did not die from his fall at the end of TDK (otherwise, Batman really did break his one rule), and that to preserve Gotham's view of Dent as a hero, Batman and Gordon put him in Arkham Asylum to be rehabilitated, both psychologically and physically (with prosthetics/plastic surgery?). Harvey goes along with it, passes through rehab, and returns to Gotham as a sort of resurrection of Gotham's messiah, this time to escalate "the good fight" against Batman. In this way, he turns all of Gotham against the Dark Knight.

However, Two-Face's villain personality is still in full play, and his double life carries on the Joker's legacy by releasing more "freaks" on Gotham: using Dent's influence, he allows former Arkham inmates to take over the mob (Penguin, Ventriloquist, etc.) and/or join the Bat-crusade (Detective Nygma?), all in the name of "fairness." This heralds Gotham's descent into an even deeper state of fear and desperation than in the Falcone era. As Alfred said, things become worse before they get better.

Leading up to this point, Batman has been doubting whether the Batman legend can really endure so much hatred from the city he swore to protect. To complicate things, finding comfort and escape as Bruce Wayne in a new found companionship with Selina Kyle has for the first time tempted him to give up the cape and cowl, and give up on the city that has rejected him first.

However, all the things that make Bruce Wayne the Batman (Alfred, the memory of his parents, his sense of justice, his hope) force him not to give up on Gotham. Seeing that it was not "the right choice" to allow Gotham to continue believing in Harvey Dent and to turn against Batman, and discovering Dent's activities as Two-Face (and perhaps the emergence of deadlier vigilantes like Catwoman, maybe?), he decides to finally prove himself as the true hero that Gotham deserves and needs, reveal the truth about Harvey to Gotham, bring to justice all of Two-Face's wrongdoings (and capture the freaks with Gordon's help), and win back Gotham's trust in a dark but redemptive victory.

What do you think? Could Two-Face work in BB3?

 

[Rishi]

I thought he looked dead, but it'd be much easier for Bats to redeem himself in the public eye if he was alive.

Face is the perfect villain to carry the next movie, but his being alive sorta ruins the ending of this film.

In other words, I'm too conflicted to give a good answer.

 

[spideymouse]

Spoiler

I thought he looked dead, but it'd be much easier for Bats to redeem himself in the public eye if he was alive.

Face is the perfect villain to carry the next movie, but his being alive sorta ruins the ending of this film.

In other words, I'm too conflicted to give a good answer.

I agree, but I also think that

Spoiler

his dying sorta ruins the ending of TDK... i mean, does that mean that the incorruptible Batman really broke his one rule?

Dead or alive, Harvey Dent didn't die a hero--he became a villain, and it isn't true justice to let a city go on without that knowledge. In other words, we haven't reached "comic book status quo" yet; there's something wrong, something unjust in the way things are at the end of TDK. Having Batman deal with that moral dilemma, especially if Two-Face lives, is a compelling story to tell and gives the third movie solid continuity from the previous two.

 

[DorkyFresh]

*sigh* some people just can't accept that he's dead i guess.





there are a lot more reasons NOT to bring him back than there are to bring him back.

 

[Dark Globe]

*sigh* some people just can't accept that he's dead i guess.





there are a lot more reasons NOT to bring him back than there are to bring him back.

1. Looking dead doesn't mean he is dead.
2. If he can survive a car crash, why can't he survive a fall?
3. He did not get enough screentime AT ALL. I know the story was about Harvey Dent, but there was WAY too much of Dent. Two Face is a big part of Dent's life and you can't just kill him off prematurely.

 

[spideymouse]

*sigh* some people just can't accept that

Spoiler

he's dead

i guess.





there are a lot more reasons NOT to bring him back than there are to bring him back.

It isn't that I can't accept it. I just want to talk about it and re-think things. Is it not okay to discuss whether we should accept that Batman killed a guy, after fighting so hard not to kill the Joker?

Anyway, what are the "a lot more" reasons not to bring him back? I only see one: the cover that Batman and Gordon use to keep Gotham hopeful. But a Gotham that continues believing in Harvey Dent just doesn't seem like Gotham.

 

[spideymouse]

*sigh* some people just can't accept that

Spoiler

he's dead

i guess.





there are a lot more reasons NOT to bring him back than there are to bring him back.

It isn't that I can't accept it. I just want to talk about it and re-think things. Is it not okay to discuss whether we should accept that Batman killed a guy, after fighting so hard not to kill the Joker?

Anyway, what are the "a lot more" reasons not to bring him back? I only see one: the cover that Batman and Gordon use to keep Gotham hopeful. But a Gotham that continues believing in Harvey Dent just doesn't seem like Gotham.

 

[Anubis]

Seeing as Ledger is dead, and Bats doesn't have many villains that scream "Crazy" as much as Two-Face and Joker, They'd be better off pulling some crap like, shaving Dent's head and stuffing him in Arkham under an assumed name or something. And having him break out to wage war on the corrupt system that destroyed him.

Either that or completely revamp the Riddler or some s**t.

 

[GenesisBeyond]

Just got back from Barnes&Noble this morning and saw they had "Artwork & Shooting Script for THE DARK KNIGHT."

Spoiler

I specifically went to the end to see what Nolan wrote after Dent got knocked off the ledge. Basically it said..."Dent lay there. Neck broken. Dead."

Now I guess since they didn't exactly SAY THAT in the movie, you could go either way, but I thought what they wrote in the Shooting Script gave a good hint as to what they were thinking when they put the movie together.

 

[spideymouse]

interesting. I guess Nolan was cool with Batman killing someone.

 

[Quinzel]

He's not dead. Harvey's dead. Twoface has taken over. I mean he fell from what, 3 stories, isn't that what Maroni was dropped from when he just broke his ankles?

You can't kill twoface, it just doesn't work that way.

and B-Man doesn't WANT to clear his name. That's the point. He wants to give Gotham hope.

 

[spideymouse]

He's not dead. Harvey's dead. Twoface has taken over. I mean he fell from what, 3 stories, isn't that what Maroni was dropped from when he just broke his ankles?

You can't kill twoface, it just doesn't work that way.

It guess he is dead (see part of Nolan's script above).

 

[spideymouse]

and B-Man doesn't WANT to clear his name. That's the point. He wants to give Gotham hope.

We're not talking about clearing Batman's name--we're talking about Batman fighting for what's just.

Putting Gotham's hope in Dent might turn out to be a bad thing, especially if he turns out to be alive as Two-Face, and I think that Batman saving Gotham from freak-led corruption would be a good story for the third film.

 

[Anjow1060]

The script reads,

and i quote in front of me:

"Dent lies at the bottom of the hole, his neck broken. DEAD."

Put it to rest with him. He's done folks.

- Jow

 

[spideymouse]

The script reads,

and i quote in front of me:

"Dent lies at the bottom of the hole, his neck broken. DEAD."

Put it to rest with him. He's done folks.

- Jow

If you're going by the script, you should see even right there that they didn't completely follow the script; they weren't "at the bottom of the hole", and his neck did not appear to be broken. And I'm sure there were a lot of other more substantial ways that the story evolved between the script and the screen.

Script arguments aside, try to open your minds a bit; if there's an ongoing discussion about Ra's Al Ghul coming back, why shouldn't this thread be legitimate, or even more so, since Harvey didn't fall ten stories in an exploding elevated train?

And does no one else find it a problem that having Harvey Dent die essentially means that Batman broke his one rule?

 

[Hole Shot]

1. Looking dead doesn't mean he is dead.

But looking for a new job as a superhero is probably a good sign that your time as a villain in another franchise is up.

 

[Gianakin_]

And does no one else find it a problem that having Harvey Dent die essentially means that Batman broke his one rule?

Nope, not to me. He had to save a life. 2Face was collateral damage. Batman had no intention of killing anyone. He did not become an "executioner", like he said in BB.

 

[spideymouse]

But looking for a new job as a superhero is probably a good sign that your time as a villain in another franchise is up.

Well, first of all, Eckhart as Hal Jordan is a pipe dream that probably won't happen.

Secondly, Eckhart doesn't know what the third film will bring, as it hasn't been written or even conceived yet. Sure, he and the whole world may believe that his character is dead, but if Nolan chooses to have Harvey Dent survive for the purpose of a third film, then that's what will happen. Even despite the "funeral" and the stillness of Dent's body in TDK, it is still somewhat ambiguous enough to bring him back if it serves the story of the third film.

In other words, it's Nolan's call. If he wants Batman to be a killer, then by all means, keep him dead. It works for TDK. If he wants Batman to preserve his "incorruptibility" in BB3, then i think he should reconsider it.

 

[spideymouse]

Nope, not to me. He had to save a life. 2Face was collateral damage. Batman had no intention to kill. He did not become an "executioner", like he said in BB.

hmm, good point. you're right. he's much more of a killer in BB where he blows up the whole building full of ninjas, and when he intentionally doesn't save Ra's Al Ghul even though he is able to.

 

[DorkyFresh]

1. Looking dead doesn't mean he is dead.

that's what they said about Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Eddie Brock, and Ra's Al Ghul.

2. If he can survive a car crash, why can't he survive a fall?

because a car can protect him...a fall can't.

3. He did not get enough screentime AT ALL. I know the story was about Harvey Dent, but there was WAY too much of Dent. Two Face is a big part of Dent's life and you can't just kill him off prematurely.

i'll agree with this, but that doesn't change that Nolan killed him off.

 

[zeptron]

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/

He says he WOULD, not that it's happening.

 

[spideymouse]

because a car can protect him...a fall can't.

It's odd that he unbuckled his seatbelt before he shot the driver... I guess that's the lesson we should take: you have a better chance of surviving an impending car crash by taking off your seatbelt... oooh that's a good item for "things we learn from the franchise" thread.

 

[spideymouse]

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/

He says he WOULD, but I doubt it's gonna happen.

That's good to know. It's all up to Nolan, anyway.

 

[Thythoutrust]

They have his freakin' funeral at the end!

 

[Anubis]

Well, it was more of a wake.