Vengeance Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
- Thread starter KalKai
- Start date
AgentPat
Squeaky wheel
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 15,238
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 31
The gang (you know who you are) talked me into doing my own version of a review for Vengeance. As I began writing, I realized it turned out to be more of an analysis of production and writing than it was a review, which I guess isn't such a bad thing. Eh, whatever. I had fun with it.
I'm going to assume folks have seen the episode, so this analysis will jump around a bit through various scenes. Hey, I'm not a professional, okie dokey? Bear with me. LOL I had also intended to include screen caps, but it's late, and I'm bushed. Sowee.
Anyhoo, put a pot of coffee on 'cause we're gonna be here for a while. Here we go...
The episode begins with an establishing shot of the Kent farm. It's the "sweet hour," a time during the day just before sunset when natural lighting bathes everything in a warm, orangey glow. But Director Jeannot Szwarc chose a gray, foreboding sky with ominous clouds to convey the beginning of what will be a dark episode, both in lighting and mood. In point of fact, most of the ep takes place at night, which is a departure from the brightly lit and colorful settings usually framed in a typical SV episode.
The camera pans in on Clark, attempting to fix a tractor to no avail. He's frustrated and shatters a socket wrench in anger. Martha enters the barn off camera. Her reveal is a reflection that Clark sees in one of the tractor's mirrors. Focus pulls slowly from the mirror frame onto Martha, who is seen in a soft silhouette as she walks into the dark barn. Clark tells Martha the engine won't start and he doesn't know how to fix it.
The metaphors for Clark's pain and his inability to relieve it have just begun.
In many ways, Vengeance was the 2nd part of a two part episode (Reckoning was part 1.) This is conveyed through a quick recap of the key events from part 1 at the beginning of the ep. Both episodes took Clark through an emotional journey, which psychiatrist Elisabeth Kubler-Ross labeled the "Five Stages of Grief." Here's some background:
Okay, back to the episode...
Martha is confused that Clark is home early from school. Clark tells her he dropped out for the rest of the semester. He's needed on the farm; there's too much work to be done. Martha protests but Clark is adamant. "Mom, it's done," he says. Clark is taking his first steps into the role formerly occupied by his father, and there's no arguing with him. It's a whole different attitude from last season, when his parents were able to talk him out of staying on the farm. In Blank, he told Chloe, "I am feeling a bit guilty leaving my parents to run the farm without me." Now, not only is he NOT leaving his mother, but he dropped out of his second semester at college in order to be there for her.
Martha talks to Clark about needing to go to Metropolis. She too has been put in the unenviable position of taking over Jonathan's elected duties as a state senator. She tells Clark that she also intends to drop off some of Jonathan's clothes at the homeless shelter and suggests he might want to see if there's anything he wants to keep. Up to this point, the camera has been in constant motion on both characters, trucking in the direction of the opposite character with each cut. It binds and connects them as a family. But when Clark feels his emotions bubbling to the surface, the camera movement slows down and eventually stops. Clark is suppressing his feelings and has put up an emotional wall. There will be no connection between the two characters at this time. Clark is in the first stage of denial and intentionally isolating himself.
The scene sets up the watch subplot, Clark's search for which is a metaphor for his coming to terms with his father's death and ending the guilt that he's shouldered since his self-imposed Exile in Metropolis, two years earlier. When Andrea disappears at the end of the episode, Chloe tells Clark, "Well I guess exile is the price you have to pay when you play judge, jury and executioner." Writers Al Septien and Turi Meyer know their comic history as the reference can also be applied to the Supes' TPB "Exile," in which Superman exiles himself from Earth for breaking his own oath against killing. It's a tale of remorse and rebirth, where Superman learns to face his demons and not run from them.
Comic references abound in Vengeance, the most notable of which is Andrea and her similarity to various other super heroes. Obscure references could be found with characters such as Dark Angel, Electra, and the Punisher, but the key ones were those that evoked different sides of Clark. When Andrea rescues Martha at the Sacred Heart Mission (an interesting parallel to Andrea herself since Andrea received her powers via a heart transplant), she tells Martha, "Don't worry, you're safe now." This is what Warrior Angel says in Ryan's comic book, as well as what Clark says to Ryan when he rescues him. Warrior Angel was Clark's metaphor as Superman in the episodes Stray and Ryan, and now Andrea can be included in the same group.
The Superman nods were delivered at the business end of a sledgehammer, but it was by design as it set up the foundation for Clark's facade down the road. Andrea's bumbling demeanor, glasses, costume changes - in a PHONE booth - even the neon "Supero" sign on the roof, were all direct references. The homages culminated in Chloe's question to Clark at the end of the ep, "Do you think you could ever do what [Andrea] did - play the mild mannered reporter by day and a crime fighter by night?" Clark responds, "Honestly, I'm kind of hoping I can find a way to not have to hide who I really am." Of course, Clark's eventual solution will be to don a maskless costume. He can then be "himself" in the eyes of the world and be called "SuperClark" (LOL!), or some other name as yet TBD
, all while he devolves his current identity into a hollow facade. Chole, or perhaps her cousin, will be there to coin a "catchy moniker for our new crime fighter."
Other nods to Superman were in Clark's description as a "boy scout," and "man of steel," and Andrea's off-the-mark suggestion that Clark would make a good "side kick." Clark makes it clear that he's NOT a side kick, much to Chloe's amusement. Andrea also labels Chloe, "Brenda Starr," a reference to the classic comic book reporter of the same name. Brenda's description reads as follows:
Though no direct references were made, it's amazing how much Run, SV's "Flash" episode, came to mind during Vengeance. Brenda Star works at The Flash, the alley/garage scenes were the same set used in both Vengeance and Run, and Clark's dialog with Andrea on the rooftop were somewhat similar to his discussion with Bart - "I was born this way," and "I'm kind of allergic," (to meteor rock). Andrea had a similar reaction to the allergic line as Bart had.
Andrea's characterization nods didn't stop with Superman. There was quite a bit of Batman in her as well, which played out in the exposition of her backstory. Superman isn't "a crime fighter by night." That's Batman. Not only were there musical queues from Danny Elfman's score from the 1989 Tim Burton film, but the minimalist string harmony characteristic of composers such as Phil Glass evoked Hans Zimmer's score from Batman Begins. This is heard during such scenes as when Clark and Andrea confront the 13th Street Gang at the RR tracks. The Superman/Batman relationship is further emphasized when Andrea suggests that Clark should put the brawn away and let the brains handle the situation.
As per usual with all Smallville episodes, color plays an extremely important role, and its use in wardrobe is no exception. Clark typically wears solid blues or reds when he's acting particularly supermanly, but he wore a checkered blue and white shirt for most of this episode, along with his red Carhartt jacket. The shirt's crosshatch pattern could be interpreted as metaphor for Clark's altered behavior, a point driven home when Martha meets Chloe at the Planet. "He's been gone all night; he's not answering his cell phone - it's not like him," Martha laments. Chloe says, "there's a lot that's not been like him lately." It's also apparent in a few scenes that Clark is wearing a white T-shirt under the rest of his clothes. White is traditionally the symbolic color of protagonists, and their purity of heart.
In contrast is Andrea's mostly black "Ninja" apparel, along with a red shirt and black cape. When she flees Chloe and Clark's sting, flashes of red lighting are seen on the outside of the building, which Andrea scales during her escape. Her red-lined cape is emphasized with under lighting as she lands on the roof. When Clark confronts her, he's backlit by red lighting as well. Smash cut to Lionel reaching into a RED-lined case, containing a white handled revolver. Even through metaphor, Lionel is being portrayed as both good and bad.
Colors for Lana's wardrobe took an interesting turn in this episode. After her initial conversation with Clark at the farm, she's next seen in the Talon, dressed in a two piece purple blouse. The Talon is bathed in fantastic pink and purple neon. It's dark, but extremely moody. In walks Lex. Wow! Could they have telegraphed the eventual paring of these two any more dramatically?
Every character is interconnected in some way. Clark tells Chloe that whomever the Angel of Vengeance is, "she's got issues." Pot. Kettle. Black. Chloe knows that Clark feels guilty about the watch and that he's willing to feel anything except the pain of saying good-bye. "Denial isn't all that unusual," she says. But Martha points out that Clark is (unusual), and that he's got to take out all of those emotions somewhere.
Andrea told Clark she could help him get the watch back, but she knew that wasn't what he was really after. "You want justice, just like me," she says. As it turns out, Clark learns Andrea's vigilante style justice isn't the answer, and in a wonderful piece of misdirection, it's Lana who finds and returns Jonathan's watch to Clark. Both women are linked through Clark's pain, literally and figuratively. Lana, as most viewers will remember, used to wear a Kryptonite necklace as well.
Lana and Lex are linked through the loss of a parent. (The writers were definitely on the ball as Lana's father, Henry Small, is still alive.) Clark and Lex are linked through a treasured watch, previously owned by their father and mother (Shimmer) respectively. And Lex and Lionel are linked through their similar actions, courting women who are closely connected to Clark.
Andrea and Lionel also share a commonality. When Andrea confronts Lionel, she tells him that "no one escapes justice, not even you." It parallels her own transgression knowing that she just killed a man, and that Clark wouldn't let her get away with it. Lionel says, "we're not as different as you may think... I lost my parents to a senseless crime." "It wasn't senseless; it was calculated," Andrea says. She's referring to the murder of her own mother, but the line applies to Lionel as well, since he was the one who hired Morgan Edge to murder his own parents.
In the end, Lana tells Clark, "No matter how many people want to be there for you, you end up going through [life] alone." It's perhaps the most bittersweet line of dialog in the entire episode as Clark is just now starting to experience the harsh reality of immortality - and more importantly, he's learning to accept it. The episode ends much as it began, shot during the sweet hour for an added sense of warmth and relatable pathos. Jonathan's video reveals young Clark in similar colored clothing, riding a similar tractor to the one that he couldn't "fix" earlier. In the video, Jonathan waves to the camera and says bye. It's gut wrenching for Clark as he can finally allow himself to openly grieve, shed the pain, and accept the loss of his father.
Vengeance was an extremely well produced and acted episode. In terms of overall quality, I'd place it second only to Hidden this season.
There was one in-joke I noticed in Vengeance. One of the outgoing calls listed on the gang member's cell phone went to "Aren Ophoff." Mr. Ophoff is a production assistant on the SV crew.
I'm going to assume folks have seen the episode, so this analysis will jump around a bit through various scenes. Hey, I'm not a professional, okie dokey? Bear with me. LOL I had also intended to include screen caps, but it's late, and I'm bushed. Sowee.
Anyhoo, put a pot of coffee on 'cause we're gonna be here for a while. Here we go...
The episode begins with an establishing shot of the Kent farm. It's the "sweet hour," a time during the day just before sunset when natural lighting bathes everything in a warm, orangey glow. But Director Jeannot Szwarc chose a gray, foreboding sky with ominous clouds to convey the beginning of what will be a dark episode, both in lighting and mood. In point of fact, most of the ep takes place at night, which is a departure from the brightly lit and colorful settings usually framed in a typical SV episode.
The camera pans in on Clark, attempting to fix a tractor to no avail. He's frustrated and shatters a socket wrench in anger. Martha enters the barn off camera. Her reveal is a reflection that Clark sees in one of the tractor's mirrors. Focus pulls slowly from the mirror frame onto Martha, who is seen in a soft silhouette as she walks into the dark barn. Clark tells Martha the engine won't start and he doesn't know how to fix it.
The metaphors for Clark's pain and his inability to relieve it have just begun.
In many ways, Vengeance was the 2nd part of a two part episode (Reckoning was part 1.) This is conveyed through a quick recap of the key events from part 1 at the beginning of the ep. Both episodes took Clark through an emotional journey, which psychiatrist Elisabeth Kubler-Ross labeled the "Five Stages of Grief." Here's some background:
At some point in our lives, each of us faces the loss of someone or something dear to us. The grief that follows such a loss can seem unbearable, but grief is actually a healing process. Grief is the emotional suffering we feel after a loss of some kind. The death of a loved one, loss of a limb, even intense disappointment can cause grief. Sometimes people get stuck in one of the first four stages. Their lives can be painful until they move to the fifth stage - acceptance.
- Denial and Isolation.
At first, we tend to deny the loss has taken place, and may withdraw from our usual social contacts. This stage may last a few moments, or longer. - Anger.
The grieving person may then be furious at the person who inflicted the hurt (even if she's dead), or at the world, for letting it happen. He may be angry with himself for letting the event take place, even if, realistically, nothing could have stopped it. - Bargaining.
Now the grieving person may make bargains with God, asking, "If I do this, will you take away the loss?" - Depression.
The person feels numb, although anger and sadness may remain underneath. - Acceptance.
This is when the anger, sadness and mourning have tapered off. The person simply accepts the reality of the loss.
Okay, back to the episode...
Martha is confused that Clark is home early from school. Clark tells her he dropped out for the rest of the semester. He's needed on the farm; there's too much work to be done. Martha protests but Clark is adamant. "Mom, it's done," he says. Clark is taking his first steps into the role formerly occupied by his father, and there's no arguing with him. It's a whole different attitude from last season, when his parents were able to talk him out of staying on the farm. In Blank, he told Chloe, "I am feeling a bit guilty leaving my parents to run the farm without me." Now, not only is he NOT leaving his mother, but he dropped out of his second semester at college in order to be there for her.
Martha talks to Clark about needing to go to Metropolis. She too has been put in the unenviable position of taking over Jonathan's elected duties as a state senator. She tells Clark that she also intends to drop off some of Jonathan's clothes at the homeless shelter and suggests he might want to see if there's anything he wants to keep. Up to this point, the camera has been in constant motion on both characters, trucking in the direction of the opposite character with each cut. It binds and connects them as a family. But when Clark feels his emotions bubbling to the surface, the camera movement slows down and eventually stops. Clark is suppressing his feelings and has put up an emotional wall. There will be no connection between the two characters at this time. Clark is in the first stage of denial and intentionally isolating himself.
The scene sets up the watch subplot, Clark's search for which is a metaphor for his coming to terms with his father's death and ending the guilt that he's shouldered since his self-imposed Exile in Metropolis, two years earlier. When Andrea disappears at the end of the episode, Chloe tells Clark, "Well I guess exile is the price you have to pay when you play judge, jury and executioner." Writers Al Septien and Turi Meyer know their comic history as the reference can also be applied to the Supes' TPB "Exile," in which Superman exiles himself from Earth for breaking his own oath against killing. It's a tale of remorse and rebirth, where Superman learns to face his demons and not run from them.
Comic references abound in Vengeance, the most notable of which is Andrea and her similarity to various other super heroes. Obscure references could be found with characters such as Dark Angel, Electra, and the Punisher, but the key ones were those that evoked different sides of Clark. When Andrea rescues Martha at the Sacred Heart Mission (an interesting parallel to Andrea herself since Andrea received her powers via a heart transplant), she tells Martha, "Don't worry, you're safe now." This is what Warrior Angel says in Ryan's comic book, as well as what Clark says to Ryan when he rescues him. Warrior Angel was Clark's metaphor as Superman in the episodes Stray and Ryan, and now Andrea can be included in the same group.
The Superman nods were delivered at the business end of a sledgehammer, but it was by design as it set up the foundation for Clark's facade down the road. Andrea's bumbling demeanor, glasses, costume changes - in a PHONE booth - even the neon "Supero" sign on the roof, were all direct references. The homages culminated in Chloe's question to Clark at the end of the ep, "Do you think you could ever do what [Andrea] did - play the mild mannered reporter by day and a crime fighter by night?" Clark responds, "Honestly, I'm kind of hoping I can find a way to not have to hide who I really am." Of course, Clark's eventual solution will be to don a maskless costume. He can then be "himself" in the eyes of the world and be called "SuperClark" (LOL!), or some other name as yet TBD
, all while he devolves his current identity into a hollow facade. Chole, or perhaps her cousin, will be there to coin a "catchy moniker for our new crime fighter."Other nods to Superman were in Clark's description as a "boy scout," and "man of steel," and Andrea's off-the-mark suggestion that Clark would make a good "side kick." Clark makes it clear that he's NOT a side kick, much to Chloe's amusement. Andrea also labels Chloe, "Brenda Starr," a reference to the classic comic book reporter of the same name. Brenda's description reads as follows:
A career woman before the phrase came into vogue, Brenda is smart, glamorous and headstrong. Star reporter for the metropolitan daily, The Flash, Brenda has traveled the world solving mysteries, unearthing scoops and stealing the heart of almost every man she meets. This ravishing redheaded reporter has a taste for fashion, romance and intrigue. She has a nose for a good story, too. About the only thing Brenda doesn't shine in is being able to sustain long-lasting relationships. She's stubborn, strong willed, glamorous, hard working, bold, sassy, sexy, competitive, a keen intuition for when people are not telling the truth - these traits are countered by a wastefulness, a passion for romance and a timeless innocence.
Though no direct references were made, it's amazing how much Run, SV's "Flash" episode, came to mind during Vengeance. Brenda Star works at The Flash, the alley/garage scenes were the same set used in both Vengeance and Run, and Clark's dialog with Andrea on the rooftop were somewhat similar to his discussion with Bart - "I was born this way," and "I'm kind of allergic," (to meteor rock). Andrea had a similar reaction to the allergic line as Bart had.
Andrea's characterization nods didn't stop with Superman. There was quite a bit of Batman in her as well, which played out in the exposition of her backstory. Superman isn't "a crime fighter by night." That's Batman. Not only were there musical queues from Danny Elfman's score from the 1989 Tim Burton film, but the minimalist string harmony characteristic of composers such as Phil Glass evoked Hans Zimmer's score from Batman Begins. This is heard during such scenes as when Clark and Andrea confront the 13th Street Gang at the RR tracks. The Superman/Batman relationship is further emphasized when Andrea suggests that Clark should put the brawn away and let the brains handle the situation.
As per usual with all Smallville episodes, color plays an extremely important role, and its use in wardrobe is no exception. Clark typically wears solid blues or reds when he's acting particularly supermanly, but he wore a checkered blue and white shirt for most of this episode, along with his red Carhartt jacket. The shirt's crosshatch pattern could be interpreted as metaphor for Clark's altered behavior, a point driven home when Martha meets Chloe at the Planet. "He's been gone all night; he's not answering his cell phone - it's not like him," Martha laments. Chloe says, "there's a lot that's not been like him lately." It's also apparent in a few scenes that Clark is wearing a white T-shirt under the rest of his clothes. White is traditionally the symbolic color of protagonists, and their purity of heart.
In contrast is Andrea's mostly black "Ninja" apparel, along with a red shirt and black cape. When she flees Chloe and Clark's sting, flashes of red lighting are seen on the outside of the building, which Andrea scales during her escape. Her red-lined cape is emphasized with under lighting as she lands on the roof. When Clark confronts her, he's backlit by red lighting as well. Smash cut to Lionel reaching into a RED-lined case, containing a white handled revolver. Even through metaphor, Lionel is being portrayed as both good and bad.
Colors for Lana's wardrobe took an interesting turn in this episode. After her initial conversation with Clark at the farm, she's next seen in the Talon, dressed in a two piece purple blouse. The Talon is bathed in fantastic pink and purple neon. It's dark, but extremely moody. In walks Lex. Wow! Could they have telegraphed the eventual paring of these two any more dramatically?
Every character is interconnected in some way. Clark tells Chloe that whomever the Angel of Vengeance is, "she's got issues." Pot. Kettle. Black. Chloe knows that Clark feels guilty about the watch and that he's willing to feel anything except the pain of saying good-bye. "Denial isn't all that unusual," she says. But Martha points out that Clark is (unusual), and that he's got to take out all of those emotions somewhere.
Andrea told Clark she could help him get the watch back, but she knew that wasn't what he was really after. "You want justice, just like me," she says. As it turns out, Clark learns Andrea's vigilante style justice isn't the answer, and in a wonderful piece of misdirection, it's Lana who finds and returns Jonathan's watch to Clark. Both women are linked through Clark's pain, literally and figuratively. Lana, as most viewers will remember, used to wear a Kryptonite necklace as well.
Lana and Lex are linked through the loss of a parent. (The writers were definitely on the ball as Lana's father, Henry Small, is still alive.) Clark and Lex are linked through a treasured watch, previously owned by their father and mother (Shimmer) respectively. And Lex and Lionel are linked through their similar actions, courting women who are closely connected to Clark.
Andrea and Lionel also share a commonality. When Andrea confronts Lionel, she tells him that "no one escapes justice, not even you." It parallels her own transgression knowing that she just killed a man, and that Clark wouldn't let her get away with it. Lionel says, "we're not as different as you may think... I lost my parents to a senseless crime." "It wasn't senseless; it was calculated," Andrea says. She's referring to the murder of her own mother, but the line applies to Lionel as well, since he was the one who hired Morgan Edge to murder his own parents.
In the end, Lana tells Clark, "No matter how many people want to be there for you, you end up going through [life] alone." It's perhaps the most bittersweet line of dialog in the entire episode as Clark is just now starting to experience the harsh reality of immortality - and more importantly, he's learning to accept it. The episode ends much as it began, shot during the sweet hour for an added sense of warmth and relatable pathos. Jonathan's video reveals young Clark in similar colored clothing, riding a similar tractor to the one that he couldn't "fix" earlier. In the video, Jonathan waves to the camera and says bye. It's gut wrenching for Clark as he can finally allow himself to openly grieve, shed the pain, and accept the loss of his father.
Vengeance was an extremely well produced and acted episode. In terms of overall quality, I'd place it second only to Hidden this season.
There was one in-joke I noticed in Vengeance. One of the outgoing calls listed on the gang member's cell phone went to "Aren Ophoff." Mr. Ophoff is a production assistant on the SV crew.
AgentPat
Squeaky wheel
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 15,238
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 31
Thanks, Serene!Serene said:
I've found it's easier to write about something I like verses something I don't, and I think it's also more fun to read for a fan that way too. When folks don't like something, more often than none it just turns into a nit-pic and bash fest. For example, you know the Accuvue product placement that everybody loathed? Well, it didn't bother me at all. In fact, I thought it fit nicely. Go figure? Now if this episode had been one that I hated, I probably would have torn into that like a lion with a fresh kill LOL.
I'm debating doing this kind of analysis with every episode. They're quite time consuming, and having Crisis' avi episode file on my hard drive really helped. I don't always have that. Working off a tape (I don't have TIVO) would make it even more difficult. As I also said, they're easier to do with eps I like verses ones I don't. Doing one on an ep I don't like could be painful. If I had to do one back when Spirit aired, I probably would have slit my wrists hehehehe. We'll see though.
The Incredible Hulk
Bad Hombre
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2001
- Messages
- 33,102
- Reaction score
- 103
- Points
- 73
nice job Pat 
avidreader
Avenger
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2005
- Messages
- 10,548
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 31
I'm impressed Pat. Very good job! I like how you detailed some of the finer points of the episode and used them as a comparison to other points of previous episodes. I would like to read more of your reviews, even if they are only for the episodes that you like.
I wondered if anyone else had noticed that little Clark and big Clark were wearing similar clothing.
And does anyone know who Jim Pratt is? His name turns up on everyone's email list and it was also on the outgoing cell phone list. I googled it, and came up with some guy who lives in the Greek Islands.
I wondered if anyone else had noticed that little Clark and big Clark were wearing similar clothing.
And does anyone know who Jim Pratt is? His name turns up on everyone's email list and it was also on the outgoing cell phone list. I googled it, and came up with some guy who lives in the Greek Islands.
RakuMon
Sidekick
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2004
- Messages
- 3,898
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 31
From The Hollywood Reporter, do you think Allison "Acuvue" Mack participated in this protest? 
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/television/brief_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001993930
Actors, writers protest product placement
Screen Actors Guild and Writers Guild of America West staged their first joint protest over product placement Wednesday after being denied a chance to attend an advertising summit about branded entertainment. About 200 actors and writers carried pickets and chanted in front of the Beverly Hills Hotel as agents, producers and brand directors spoke to advertisers at the day-long Madison+Vine conference sponsored by Advertising Age. As passing cars honked in support, SAG president Alan Rosenberg and WGAW president Patric Verrone vowed to keep up the pressure until the industry agrees to establish a "code of conduct" governing product integration. "Where are the voices of the creative community in this debate? Out here on the street," Verrone said. "We need consultation and eventually we need compensation, Rosenberg added. "Whatever happened to artistic integrity? When did we lose the right to say yes or no?" The unions launched a campaign against what they call "stealth advertising" in November, saying that it was unfair to force writers to weave advertisers into story lines that actors are required to read. (Jesse Hiestand) FULL STORY
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/television/brief_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001993930
Actors, writers protest product placement
Screen Actors Guild and Writers Guild of America West staged their first joint protest over product placement Wednesday after being denied a chance to attend an advertising summit about branded entertainment. About 200 actors and writers carried pickets and chanted in front of the Beverly Hills Hotel as agents, producers and brand directors spoke to advertisers at the day-long Madison+Vine conference sponsored by Advertising Age. As passing cars honked in support, SAG president Alan Rosenberg and WGAW president Patric Verrone vowed to keep up the pressure until the industry agrees to establish a "code of conduct" governing product integration. "Where are the voices of the creative community in this debate? Out here on the street," Verrone said. "We need consultation and eventually we need compensation, Rosenberg added. "Whatever happened to artistic integrity? When did we lose the right to say yes or no?" The unions launched a campaign against what they call "stealth advertising" in November, saying that it was unfair to force writers to weave advertisers into story lines that actors are required to read. (Jesse Hiestand) FULL STORY
triplet
KryptonSite Reviewer
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 15,384
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 31
Interesting, it brings up some good points... What choice did Allison and Denise have in participating in that product placement?
They're essentially endorsing the product without additional compensation.
It's not really fair.
Now that I'm thinking about it, Tom was quiet during that whole exchange wasn't he? Wonder if that was because he has the stature to bypass that? Erica Durance did that Ford thing back in Solitude....
They're essentially endorsing the product without additional compensation.
It's not really fair.
Now that I'm thinking about it, Tom was quiet during that whole exchange wasn't he? Wonder if that was because he has the stature to bypass that? Erica Durance did that Ford thing back in Solitude....
triplet
KryptonSite Reviewer
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 15,384
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 31
NHawk19 said:
No, that's not exactly what's happening.
Allison Mack owns the rights to her own image and how it's used, there are some gray areas when it comes to her image being used in promotional materials for the show, but her face and likeness is owned by her.
I'm not an entertainment lawyer, but I bet Hulk might know more about that...
tonytr1687
Sidekick
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2005
- Messages
- 1,982
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 31
triplet said:
Can we expect your Vengeance review soon?
I'm curious as to how much money they actually got for that. Was it really worth it? It just annoys me I don't find a product more appealing. Do other people really have positive reactions to products featured in such a way?
Then again if more people Tivo and skip comercials maybe we'll see way more of this in the future.
Then again if more people Tivo and skip comercials maybe we'll see way more of this in the future.
triplet
KryptonSite Reviewer
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 15,384
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 31
tonytr1687 said:
Hmmm... I'm not sure. I've had some unexpected things come up, I tried to work on it last night when I got home and didn't get very far.
I'll work on it some more tonight but I think I'm going to give it either a 4 or 4.5... I really liked it and that wonderfull tear jerker ending made up for any deficienies it otherwise may have had.
avidreader
Avenger
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2005
- Messages
- 10,548
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 31
I've seen Special K a few times at the Kent Farm.
The Incredible Hulk
Bad Hombre
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2001
- Messages
- 33,102
- Reaction score
- 103
- Points
- 73
I'd surmise that in her contract with WB, there's a clause in there that they can use her likeness in any promotional materials relating to the show which would include any kind of sponsorships, etc. I'm guessing that anything of hers related to Smallville is fair game for WB to use
If I was one of WB's lawyers, I'd argue that her little Acuvue line falls under that, since it was related to a Smallville promotion (with Acuvue) and contest. As for her wanting to paid additional as a "spokewoman", that's a bit of a stretch. I mean at what point do you draw the line on something like this? Is she "promoting" GAP when she wears one of their tops in an episode? Is she shilling for VW when she drives her red convertible bug all over? If she mentions New York, does the NY Board of Tourism have to compensate her? It's a bit of a slippery slope there.
If I was one of WB's lawyers, I'd argue that her little Acuvue line falls under that, since it was related to a Smallville promotion (with Acuvue) and contest. As for her wanting to paid additional as a "spokewoman", that's a bit of a stretch. I mean at what point do you draw the line on something like this? Is she "promoting" GAP when she wears one of their tops in an episode? Is she shilling for VW when she drives her red convertible bug all over? If she mentions New York, does the NY Board of Tourism have to compensate her? It's a bit of a slippery slope there.
NHawk19
insert witty comment
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2005
- Messages
- 5,961
- Reaction score
- 445
- Points
- 73
The Incredible Hulk said:
Please take a look above at my post on how it's Chloe promoting not Allison Mack. I'd like to get your thoughts and how that would work in your argument, given your guess on the clause in her contract.
The Incredible Hulk
Bad Hombre
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2001
- Messages
- 33,102
- Reaction score
- 103
- Points
- 73
I honestly dont even think it would get to the point about trying to differentiate between character and actress, but you're right in a way.
"Acting" implies you become someone else and doesnt represent what the actor's true opinions are. Because Jake Gyllenhaal plays a gay cowboy, doesnt mean in real life he is pro-gay or pro-cowboy , and any reasonable person wouldnt think that.
Allison would really have no case trying to say that by Chloe shilling contact lenses, it implies that Allison is doing so as well. With anything Smallville related Allison isnt Allison, she's Chloe. That's the nature of acting. The only time I could foresee it falling out of that realm, was if she was at an awards show, and the producers of Smallville wanted her to wear an Accuvue t-shirt, then you leave the realm of "acting" because she's appearing as Allsion Mack, not Chloe.
"Acting" implies you become someone else and doesnt represent what the actor's true opinions are. Because Jake Gyllenhaal plays a gay cowboy, doesnt mean in real life he is pro-gay or pro-cowboy
, and any reasonable person wouldnt think that. Allison would really have no case trying to say that by Chloe shilling contact lenses, it implies that Allison is doing so as well. With anything Smallville related Allison isnt Allison, she's Chloe. That's the nature of acting. The only time I could foresee it falling out of that realm, was if she was at an awards show, and the producers of Smallville wanted her to wear an Accuvue t-shirt, then you leave the realm of "acting" because she's appearing as Allsion Mack, not Chloe.
Similar threads
