Villain/s of the Shang-Chi?

[Faith_Cassidy]

Not talking of watching board meetings just his look. Sophisticated, smart, with an air of power. He'll be a crime boss. But later in the film you find that he is old and has abilities.

Sounds good.

If Marvel plans to hire a big name actor for the role, I think they can go any number of ways with the villainous father angle. The actor would be the draw so you wouldn't have to worry so much about maintaining some of the more problematic elements of his origin.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I would personally not have him look like a supervillain. Maybe a very rich/powerful chinese business man. Only later in the film you find out he's far more than he seems. Have some of his henchmen be more out there though.

The question is whether you want to capture the spirit of the original stories or tell it more from how Shang-Chi would have seen things. There's no doubt the audience would have known Fu Manchu was a villain from the second they said his name.

 

[Lilbaz]

The question is whether you want to capture the spirit of the original stories or tell it more from how Shang-Chi would have seen things. There's no doubt the audience would have known Fu Manchu was a villain from the second they said his name.

Why do you keep bringing fumanchu up? Marvel do not have the rights to use him and are not going to. They cannot say his name. So there will be no audience recognition. This will be an adaption of the comic series. They will change things and one thing they will change is his fathers look because there are millions of people on the internet who love to be outraged and can't wait to vent their anger.

 

[Mike Murdock]

The question is if they're going to try to capture the spirit of the original despite not having the rights to the character.

 

[Lilbaz]

The question is if they're going to try to capture the spirit of the original despite not having the rights to the character.

What is the spirit of shang chi?

 

[Silvermoth]

Pretty much any Bruce Lee flick haha.

No I’m kidding but it’s not a bad place to start in. Has anyone listened to the Bruce Lee podcast? It’s run by his daughter and it’s really interesting and worth a listen. There’s some good inspo for Shang Chi right there

 

[Mike Murdock]

What is the spirit of shang chi?

If you haven't understood my posts so far, I don't think I can explain it any clearer.

 

[Lilbaz]

If you haven't understood my posts so far, I don't think I can explain it any clearer.

They changed the ancient one into a woman. They changed mordo and zemo and a hundred different charcters. They can keep the spirit of the comic while changing shang chi's dad a bit. Doesn't need much changing, just get rid of the tash.

 

[chamber-music]

Have Zheng Zu as a shadowy figure who has secretly been steering certain events in Asia for centuries. Like in the comics he has gone by many names. His modern identity is that of a new money Chinese billionaire businessman.

They can explain Zheng Zu's immortality by making him a Eternal if they want.

His daughter, Zheng Bao Yu leads his Si Fan ninja assassin army but wants to usurp her father.

 

[Mike Murdock]

They changed the ancient one into a woman. They changed mordo and zemo and a hundred different charcters.

Right, because they recognized the core of the character and preserved that despite the changes.

 

[Lilbaz]

Right, because they recognized the core of the character and preserved that despite the changes.

So what is the core of shang chi's dad? Is it the elements considered racist or can we just do away with that?

 

[Mike Murdock]

A truly sinister, evil supervillain who the audience would instantly recognize as such without any need for backstory or exposition. I feel like I've been saying that for several pages now.

 

[Lilbaz]

A truly sinister, evil supervillain who the audience would instantly recognize as such without any need for backstory or exposition. I feel like I've been saying that for several pages now.

Ok you think marvel will make him look like fu manchu. I don't. Fair enough quits. We'll see.

 

[Dark Raven]

They could make him look like Silver Fox from "The Secret Rivals" if they really wanted.

Since he was played by Hwang Jang Lee and an iconic image of martial arts films rather than a yellow peril stereotype like Fu Manchu conceived by the West, then he would be very different and received more positively.

Or if you didn't want that, then just have him look like Hwang Jang Lee as he normally was either in Snake in the Eagle's Shadow:

Or Drunken Master

A truly sinister, evil supervillain who the audience would instantly recognize as such without any need for backstory or exposition. I feel like I've been saying that for several pages now.

Even in these classic martial arts films, they still showed some backstory for villains played by Hwang Jang Lee. For example, in The Invincible Armor, they showed how he became so invulnerable.

 

[Lilbaz]

They could make him look like Silver Fox from "The Secret Rivals" if they really wanted.

Since he was played by Hwang Jang Lee and an iconic image of martial arts films rather than a yellow peril stereotype like Fu Manchu conceived by the West, then he would be very different and received more positively.

Or if you didn't want that, then just have him look like Hwang Jang Lee as he normally was either in Snake in the Eagle's Shadow:

Or Drunken Master

Even in these classic martial arts films, they still showed some backstory for villains played by Hwang Jang Lee. For example, in The Invincible Armor, they showed how he became so invulnerable.

Maybe have a painting of him looking like that from a hundred years ago but would personally like a much more modern look. I'm guessing a chinese audience would too.

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe have a painting of him looking like that from a hundred years ago but would personally like a much more modern look. I'm guessing a chinese audience would too.

Depends on how much Chinese audiences are yearning for nostalgia. That Silver Fox image was so iconic that it kept showing up in other martial arts films such as The Invincible Armor, which wasn't even connected to The Secret Rivals. And didn't Tarantino use something similar as well as a homage?

 

[Mike Murdock]

Ok you think marvel will make him look like fu manchu. I don't. Fair enough quits. We'll see.

I don't necessarily think he'll look like Fu Manchu. I don't think his physical appearance is what matters.

I'm also not convinced Fu Manchu still carries the same connotations it did previously. I don't know if a literal adaptation would capture the spirit of the character either.

 

[Dark Raven]

I don't necessarily think he'll look like Fu Manchu. I don't think his physical appearance is what matters.

I'm also not convinced Fu Manchu still carries the same connotations it did previously. I don't know if a literal adaptation would capture the spirit of the character either.

Maybe dress him in blackface. That might not carry the same connotations it did previously.

Just because you don't think younger audiences will know Fu Manchu doesn't mean older ones won't remember him. And those who were older and racist will see this racist trope wheeled out again and think it legitimizes their attitudes. Even just having the name "Fu Manchu", without necessarily the physical appearance, still carries that racist association.

And how do you think some of these people began using him as a racist stereotype in the first place? It's because be was out there as a character. New people could latch onto Fu Manchu again if he makes a comeback.

It's best to let him stay dead in the past and never be brought back again for any kind of adaptation.

 

[Lilbaz]

I don't necessarily think he'll look like Fu Manchu. I don't think his physical appearance is what matters.

I'm also not convinced Fu Manchu still carries the same connotations it did previously. I don't know if a literal adaptation would capture the spirit of the character either.

So if he isn't called fu manchu and doesn't look like fu manchu, then what is the issue? He wont be fu manchu.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Look, I thought I've explained myself carefully. I can't tell if you think my posts are unclear or if you're just expecting that I'm making some argument I'm not but, either way, we don't seem to understand each other. I'll try one last time but, after that, I hope you'll forgive me if I give up and drop this discussion.

My question is whether there is anything else out there that can replace Fu Manchu that carries the same weight as he would have carried at the time Shang Chi's comics came out.

 

[Lilbaz]

Look, I thought I've explained myself carefully. I can't tell if you think my posts are unclear or if you're just expecting that I'm making some argument I'm not but, either way, we don't seem to understand each other. I'll try one last time but, after that, I hope you'll forgive me if I give up and drop this discussion.

My question is whether there is anything else out there that can replace Fu Manchu that carries the same weight as he would have carried at the time Shang Chi's comics came out.

I don't think they need to. He will be a character unique to the film. Doesn't mean that he can't be one of the most iconic bad guys seen on film. Nobody had any recognition of darth vader before star wars. Hanibal lector was largely unknown before silence of the lambs.

Zemo, alexander pierce and kilmonger didn't need any special look in the films to be bad guys and tell the story well.

 

[Lilbaz]

At the end of the day it will be up to the writers, director and actor to make a compelling bad guy (whomever that may be).

 

[The Infernal]

Though I don 't know if he's connected in any significant way I wonder if they could introduce the real Mandarin and use him as a villain for Shang Chi?

 

[Lilbaz]

Though I don 't know if he's connected in any significant way I wonder if they could introduce the real Mandarin and use him as a villain for Shang Chi?

I doubt it. They've already used a character calling himself the mandarin. Not that many people would have seen all hail the king and it would take some explaining to not confuse the ga. Easier to use someone else.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think they can easily invent a villain if Shang Chi doesn't have one, or reimagine one from the comics. If martial arts films come up with original villains all the time, then why should this film have any trouble doing that?

They just need to get people experienced in working on martial arts films and know how to hit all the right notes. That was something Iron Fist didn't know how to do at all. The fighting in that wouldn't even reach the bottom rung of martial arts films.