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Discussion in 'Ant-Man Sequels' started by Mike Murdock, Jan 27, 2015.
Maybe Egghead & Whirlwind. Taskmaster would be great too.
Then he becomes Modok and terrorizes Scott when he hears of the return of the Ant-man
The Winter Ant
I think the obvious choice would be Goliath. I would like to see MODOK or Whirlwind myself.
Whirlwind with Wasp as Ant-Mans sidekick or GTFO.
Just hope it's not someone who can shrink. We've seen that.
I was thinking that Taskmaster would be an ideal villain for a future Ant-Man movie with a personal stake. Maybe he actually wants to steal some Pym technology himself. If you look at classic Taskmaster, he has a ton of weapons he has to carry around. Pym technology would actually benefit him greatly so that he could miniaturise everything and then simply produce it when needed but would be able to keep everything on him easily.
He could start off the movie as classic Taskmaster and might be trying to become more like the Udon Taskmaster as his goal.
Alright, I have a crazy idea: The villain of Ant-Man and the Wasp should be none other than Janet Van Dyne.
In the MC2 comics she originates from, Hope Pym is a villain known as the Red Queen. She menaces the next generation of Avengers, believing they are a disgrace to her late parents' memory. She takes particular issue with Cassie Lang - who has since become a hero similar to the Wasp called "Stinger" - since she thinks she should have been the one to carry on her father's legacy. Some of this already worked its way into Ant-Man, with Hope's feelings of resentment towards her father stemming from his refusal to allow her to use his Ant-Man suit. Janet, as the Red Queen, could take up the rest of this.
So the movie opens with Scott and Hope rescuing Janet from the Quantum Realm. If Scott could make it out of there alive, then there's every reason to think Janet could as well. Since time doesn't function the same way there, she's much the same age as she was when Hank last saw her. But spending 30+ years in real time under the effects of the Pym particles has messed with her head (like it did to Hank and Darren Cross), so she's acting strangely.
Meanwhile, Hydra assassin and Darren's older brother Will Cross is out for revenge. The movie would build him up like he's the main villain, only to later reveal that he's a red herring. He corners the Pyms, but Janet unexpectedly and ruthlessly kills him. What world has Janet come back to? SHIELD is a shadow of its former self, and Hydra, an organization her parents' generation fought and defeated, is back and as strong as ever? Janet comes to the conclusion that this new generation of heroes simply are not able to keep the world safe, and Scott and Hope are making a mockery of her and Hank's legacy. It doesn't need to make perfect sense, she's crazy.
The big reason why I want this is that the MCU movies are far too willing to kill off their main bad guy. Of the 12 movies released so far, only 3 had their main antagonist alive at the end. All three were in Phase 1, and two of them had the same bad guy. By making the villain someone important to the heroes, the showdown becomes about stopping her without killing her. Can Hank and Hope bring back the woman they know and love? Or was Janet lost for good?
Also because, aside from Nebula and a few minor Extremis soldiers, there are no female villains in the Marvel movies.
No. That would be a slap in the face for all Janet fans turning her into a villain. If you want a female villain, have the female Yellowjacket, Rita Demara. Or have her become the Red Queen, just like Darren Cross was never Yellowjacket in the comics. But don't ruin Janet.
Interesting idea, but I just cannot fathom it
It's a concept, but you risk pissing off fans of the character, and I imagine a greater outcry than when Iron Man 3 apparently "ruined" The Mandarin.
I hear people suddenly saying "Were there really any fans of Janet Van Dyne? They're only now coming out of the woodwork now that her character has been ruined."
It would only "ruin Janet" if it was done poorly. The movie could also flash back to one of Hank and Janet's adventures during the Cold War to punctuate the difference between her normal self and her current self that's been ruined by the Pym particles. Besides, she would be restored to her normal self by the end of the movie. The whole point of the movie, in both the text and the subtext, is bringing back Janet van Dyne.
Can you think of any good reason Marvel Studios should use Rita DeMara that isn't just a retread of what the first movie did with Darren Cross?
For the record, I'm from the camp that says Iron Man 3's twist on the Mandarin is the best part of the movie. No one saw that coming. How often can we say we've been truly surprised by something in a superhero movie?
Iron Man 3 is not the best example to use since that kinda illustrates how abstract "fan outrage" is. People were supposedly pissed off to hell and back and outraged and angry and guess what? It's the highest grossing solo film in the MCU's history. Clearly the outraged fans were either a small minority or the Mandarin change didn't piss them off enough to not pay to see the movie.
THAT SAID, I do think this would be a mistake. It would really be a slap in the face to finally give Jan her due and then just make her evil. I don't say that as a "Fans would be outraged!" thing but as a "This would be taking a dump all over the character" thing.
My first thought is: Eric O'Grady?
She wouldn't be evil, she would be crazy. That's an important distinction. She'd be the kind of villain who thinks she's the hero. The vigilante who takes things too far is a frequent element in superhero comics that has never really shown up in the movies.
How would you "give Jan her due" anyway? What purpose would she serve in the MCU now that Hope has taken up her mantle as the Wasp? She could be redundant, she could be absent, or she could be something interesting. I'm in favor of Option C.
Unless we're talking about a prequel instead of sequel, in which case Hope would never get her due.
I don't really get the desire to see Hank or Janet be villains in the movies
I don't think they should have another villain with the same power set as the heroes in the sequel.
Ultron. Not joking.
Whirlwind should be the bad guy. Wasp's ex-boyfriend stalking her drives the plot, particularly his jealousy of Scott.
How would you link Pym to Ultron in the wake of the Avengers film? I think a smaller Ultron film that plays on the Oedipus side of thing could have worked if a) Hank was Ultron's 'father' and b) Jan was known to Ultron so it could obsess over her. However, this would require some creativity to fit in the existing universe.
I suspect (like many others have suggested) we'll get a 'journey into mystery' for at least part of the film in which Scott and Hope, under the direction of Pym, shrink to the microverse to recue Jan. Whether there is a villain in the quantum realm, or an outside antagonist jeopordising the mission, I don't know.
I think it could be similar to Fantastic Voyage or Inner Space with the microverse substituting for the human body here, and Scott and Hope meeting all kinds of challenges.
But do we know exactly where Darren Cross went in the last movie? Did he actually die or was he just shrunk down to infinity? Couldn't he potentially have ended up in the microverse as well and could be someone they encounter again?
I think Darren Cross is dead. Cross imploded in a puff of smoke.
We saw Janet and Scott shrink down to the microverse/quantum realm and it didn't look like what happened to Cross.
The genie is out of the bottle in regards to Pym Particles and the existence of Ant-Man. There could be repercussions in the sequel. Pym Technologies imploded publicly, Carson got away with Pym Particles and people know the rumours of an Ant-Man are real.
There may be villains from Hank and Janet's past who out for revenge.
I would say that Hank helped create the Ultron program that Tony Stark revives in AOU. I think the fact that Vision shut him out of the net would make him a manageable foe for Scott, Hope, and Hank as well, since Ultron would have to build everything he needs himself. Manageable, but not easy.
As for Jan, I think they could just cut that part out (her relationship with Ultron). Or maybe Ultron is trying to beat Team Ant-Man to the quantum realm because he knows Jan is there and is obsessed with her (actually I like that idea better than just leaving it out).
How about a villain that's not a doppelgänger or reverse (enter name here)? I'd like to see our heroes deal with something new and unrelated to them.