Villains we need to see in this Batman solo franchise

Discussion in 'The Batman' started by Tg11, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. shauner111 Registered

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    Pretty sure James Gunn was told not to recast Deadshot so he changed Elba’s character last minute. All because of the possibility of Will Smith returning. Also, Margot Robbie/Cathy Yan were told to ditch Penguin because of Reeves, so they went with Black Mask (which tells you Reeves has no immediate plans for Roman). And they couldn’t use Batgirl because of her solo film.

    So I’m guessing Reeves may have been told not to use Harley Quinn, Batgirl or Deadshot. Sounds like everyone works together behind the scenes. Gotham City Sirens was probably cancelled because of Reeves’ Catwoman plans. Joker is obviously the big exception to each universe.

    So I don’t think Deadshot will show up. Personally I think hitmen/assassins are over-used in action movies especially with John Wick still going strong. Two-Face however (and his gang) could give Batman a fight.
     
  2. WatchProtect Registered

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    I do like Two-Face. I feel like you're right about the character universe thing, thankfully Ayer/Snyder didn't use characters like Two-Face, Riddler, Penguin or any of the big ones.
     
  3. Sawyer High King

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    It might just be me being petty, but seeing the Joker thread getting such a disproportionate amount of activity for a character that (most likely) won’t even be in this first film, I would kind of get a kick out of it if Reeves didn’t use him at all.
     
  4. shauner111 Registered

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    I’m exhausted with the Joker talk right now. There’s so many other rogues that I’d rather discuss. And I’m pro “Drops = Joker” and if he is in the movie I’ll lose my mind...but other villains deserve the same amount of discussion.
     
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  5. emielaen Registered

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    What are some of the better Hugo Strange stories in the comics? I haven't read a ton with him in it.
     
  6. cryptic name No Limits

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    I'd go with Prey as a very broad base for Hugo Strange. I love the idea of him doing talkshows and **** as this expert talking about Batman and what his deal is, getting involved with the police as a consultant for a Batman task force that Gordon is forced to lead.Keep the stuff with him dressing in a homemade Batman costume and talking to mannequins because it's weird and gross and I like that.
     
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  7. shauner111 Registered

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    Agreed.

    I want a middle aged Strange who is working with the police. It’s not another serial killer who-dunnit’ plot. The movie is purely psychological.

    Rupert Thorne possibly as the new mayor and Harvey Dent as the new DA. Thorne wants Batman off the streets and Dent out of office. Meanwhile a gang war is brewing in the background, which we see at the forefront of the third story. Folks aren’t happy with Falcone’s death or the Penguin taking over on his power trip.

    That’s how I’d structure this trilogy if the Court of Owls are a no go.
     
  8. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Technically speaking, a Hugo Strange story very likely would be a "serial killer who dunnit". Its just that the "killer" in the story doesn't actually kill people, and the villain of the piece is the chief profiler/investigator. *cough*

    Which is to say, structurally, a Hugo Strange story works very well if it effectively uses the tropes of the "Police hunt the brilliant elusive theatrical criminal" storyline. Its just that the target of the hunt is Batman, and the guy trying to suss out clues and get into the criminal's head is Hugo Strange. Note that this could still work even if the police in general *aren't* hunting Batman, it just pushes Strange over further into "lone detective working the case no one cares about" territory.
     
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  9. Invader Joker Registered

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    That reminds me a lot of TDK.
     
  10. shauner111 Registered

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    I don’t see how.
     
  11. cryptic name No Limits

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    How do you guys feel about The Wrath? I feel like a of what Reeves talked about in that Fandome panel, Bruce struggling with knowing what is "good", understanding himself and reconciling justice and vengeance could be really interestingly explored in a sequel with him facing his opposite number in a more literal sense. If a filmmaker like Reeves boiled the character down to his essence and stripped away some of the elements that don't work as well, I think there's a lot of richness there.
     
    #311 cryptic name, Feb 2, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
  12. BigBatTheory Registered

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    It seems like he is already adapting that duality into his Riddler in a way. Like he isn't literally reverse Batman, but he is a masked vigilante like Batman who kills cops/murders in general. I think featuring a character like Wrath or Prometheus might feel a bit redundant if they aren't given a decent change.

    I think the Terrible Trio would make for a good update to the "reverse Batman" type of trope in his rogues gallery. Like they can be the rich d-bags who feel no responsibility or guilt for their actions, and are inspired by Batman to go out and cause mayhem masked up like animals. Really focus on the Bruce Wayne/rich playboy who has the privilege to spend his time doing essentially whatever he wants. Villains whose power comes from their wealth and "affluenza", essentially.
     
  13. Boom I got nothin'

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    Doctor Death
    Hugo Strange
    Killer Moth
    The Mad Monk
    The Reaper
    The Spook
    The Terrible Trio
    The Ventriloquist
     
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  14. shauner111 Registered

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    I’d use the Terrible Trio in a prologue where Batman & Robin take them down. Not interesting enough to make a movie about them IMO.

    Is there a world where Ventriloquist is taken seriously as a main villain in a movie? I’m definitely a fan but he seems like a small character you’d introduce to show organized crime evolving into complete madness. Would love to see him but I’m not expecting much. Chechen size role at best.

    Spook and Reaper are basically Phantasm. I’ll take Andrea. Too many vigilantes after Riddler.

    Killer Moth for a Batgirl movie instead. A little on the corny side.

    Doctor Death? Eh haven’t we seen enough mad scientists in Hollywood movies releasing deadly chemicals...see Wonder Woman.

    Mad Monk is awesome. More useful for a supernatural horror reboot than Reeves’ vision (vampires duh). But you can always make him a nutjob cult leader who convinces his followers that he’s more than just a man, which echoes Batman’s urban legend status. He’s drawn like Adam Driver so that would be insane.

    Hugo Strange is the best bet right now. “Prey” is perfect in a post-Year One Batman. My question is: what about Night Scourge?
     
    #314 shauner111, Feb 5, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  15. cryptic name No Limits

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    I’d kill to just see Ventriloquist and Scarface in a mob meeting scene. Doesn’t need to be more than a cameo
     
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  16. cryptic name No Limits

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    You could expand on Strange's obsession with Batman and build this idea that he's sort of traced Bruce's path of training. I'd have him meet and bring to Gotham a rival of Bruce's from his days of training and use that character to replace the Night Scourge. This way we could explore this Batman's "origin" further without doing a traditional origin story, display Strange's obsession and danger, and introduce a physical challenge in addition to Strange's psychological threat. I'd use Lady Shiva and/or David Cain.
     
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  17. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    I don't know, on consideration, I feel like one of the problems with Hugo Strange is. . . if you do him as some version of the modern "evil mad psychologist", he kind of overlaps too much with a bunch of other, more iconic villains. Emphasis on the "evil psychiatry" angle runs into that both Scarecrow and Harley Quinn already do that. Emphasize "evil profiler" instead, and its a little better, but that still crosses into either Riddler territory ( in his detective days ), or Two Face territory ( in a "villain connected with the police" angle ). Not that these are insurmountable, but its a little trickier to maintain niche protection, at least if you don't bring back his old old school "maker of monsters" literal mad science angle.

    Yes, there is the "one of the few Batvillains to learn Batman's identity" angle. You can lean really hard into that. But its not really intrinsic to him, I'm not sure its enough to make him work. . . *unless* you flip the script, and make him the *protagonist* of the story. Its not a Batman story about how he deals with an increasingly deranged profiler ferreting out his secrets, its a *Strange* story about how a genius psychologist and profiler obsessively pursued the Bat while going increasingly mad.
     
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  18. shauner111 Registered

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    I don’t really want to keep exploring Batman’s origin after “The Batman”. Those are interesting choices (Shiva, Cain) but you start going down a rabbit hole that I personally don’t want this trilogy to focus on. It leads to Cassandra Cain, then you’re into the League of Assassins...now you’re incorporating Ras Al Ghul. In general I’d rather keep this about Gotham’s citizens. The people who actually live there every day. That goes for a Hugo Strange storyline. Also not sure why Lady Shiva would travel to Gotham at this time.

    I really want this trilogy to feel isolated from the rest of the world.

    I wouldn’t worry about overlapping with Scarecrow or Harley Quinn because we’ve barely seen Harley’s origin in the movies. She comes off as a whacky anti-hero always running in a gang. She used to be Joker’s girlfriend. That’s pretty much all the general audience knows or remembers from her right now. I wouldn’t call Scarecrow iconic. Yes, he was seen as a young Arkham psychiatrist in Batman Begins 15 years ago, experimenting on his patients and using fear toxin. That’s about it.

    We haven’t seen the exploration of a middle aged (or older) psychologist who is dissecting Batman’s character. Someone truly interested with Bruce’s psyche. Making public appearances. Working with the police to track down Batman hasn’t been done either. This isn’t a guy trying to get rid of corruption like the Riddler. Strange wouldn’t care about that. If anything he’d get off on the freak pile up because it feeds his endless fascination with these types (unaware that HE is also a nutcase in many ways. “Takes one to know one” as they say). So that corruption keeps Gotham from getting better...right up Hugo’s alley. Gordon wouldn’t trust him either. Instead of serial murders around the city, you’d have Strange kidnapping in the third act. Sounds tropey but Strange is such a lunatic that it could be presented in a fresh fashion. Just look at how weird and disturbing it was in Prey when he kidnaps the Mayor’s daughter. Maybe you flip it and he kidnaps Selina’s friend. Maaaybe he even triggers a gang war in Gotham just to see how Batman reacts. “You agreed to bring Batman in and we signed off on your methods of doing so, but this isn’t what we anticipated. Now the city is in absolute chaos...” which would now complicate his relationship with the higher ups who hired him. Different mobs looking for Batman because a reward was promised to them by Hugo Strange? Rupert Thorne would fit that bill too but why not Hugo? You can even make that the setup for the third movie with Joker interfering in each gang’s plans because Joker wants Batman to himself.

    I’d like to see The Batman end with Bruce willing to change and having a better hold on who he is. He knows his place and what he has to do to get this job done effectively instead of constantly looking at his charts like “ugh I’m not making the difference i set out to make”. Second movie begins with Bruce functioning better within society and more confident than ever as Batman. It’s still a s**thole with years of work to be done but things are now running like clockwork for Batman. Until he meets Hugo Strange, who is not only obsessed with him but he makes everything worse in the end by setting Gotham back decades. Once the freaks truly take over...there’s no turning back.
     
  19. BigBatTheory Registered

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    Doctor Death is one of those character's who is worthy of being fully reinterpreted for a modern audience. Not a huge fan of what Scott Snyder did with him, although the visuals were really great, I just don't think it would work for this interpretation. I'm imagining why a villain in a noir movie would be given the moniker "doctor death" and two ideas come to mind:

    1. A simple angel of death serial killer. That's someone who works with the elderly/dying at hospitals or whatever, who chooses to end the life of their patients before they die of natural causes. It's an incredibly common type of serial killer irl. They see themselves usually like a god showing mercy to people in pain.

    2. A doctor, surgeon, or someone who works at a morgue, who provides a black market service of faking the deaths of criminals, providing new identities, and possibly even plastic surgery, to help criminals escape their old lives.

    The second version probably works better for a Batman story
     
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  20. shauner111 Registered

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    Agree with number 2 as the better fit for Batman. I just find it’s kinda lackluster for a Batman sequel.

    Mad Monk would be interesting, not as a vampire but a satanic monk who has convinced his followers that he has a direct relationship with Lucifer. Sacrifices etc...yeah...pretty dark. This only works if “faith” is a huge theme going into the sequel for Bruce Wayne. I just get nervous when religion or spirituality starts to become the topic of discussion for these types of movies because you don’t want to end it on a preachy note or do something extremely out of character.

    If you have ideas on how to make that work with the Monk then I’m all ears.
     
  21. Eddie Dean Jokerfied

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    I just really, really want a Gotham on film that has multitudes of costumed freaks / gangsters running around. Diving into the Golden Age Batman villain's would be a great way to fill it out. They don't have to have big roles, but where Nolan had characters like The Chechen, Gambol, Burn Gorman and Benjamin Meddlesome drop in a Doctor Death, Mad Monk, Crime Doctor, Painter of Death, The Wrecker, etc...

    Just imagine a scene like the mobster meeting in Dick Tracy. All these weirdos at one table! Heaven!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And please bring in my favorite Gorilla Boss! Instead of being a gangster who has his brain transplanted into a gorilla, he can just be a gangster who dresses in a gorilla costume.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  22. CondimentKing Mitchell Mayo

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    All the mobster stuff is probably my favourite Batman stuff so I'm down. I'm sure there's a way to implement some wackier characters into the gritty world as long as it doesn't feel out of place. We'll have to see what Reeves does with Penguin and how the Iceberg Lounge is portrayed to get an idea of what he wants to do with the criminal world.

    Can't wait to see all the Falcone and Penguin stuff in the movie

    I would love Black Mask to rise up as a Penguin rival in a sequel
     
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  23. Eddie Dean Jokerfied

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    Black Mask has become the defacto go to villain for female lead Batman properties that don't actually have Batman in them between Birds of Prey and Batwoman. He might be off the table.
     
  24. shauner111 Registered

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    Totally agree about the different gangs led by freaks. I’m hoping this Gotham develops into that and by a third movie it’s just full on whacky. It’s also my favourite part of Batman stories.

    As a kid who lived through arguably the best or most profitable period in wrestling history (specifically 98 into early 99 era WWF and WCW) the one thing that old school wrestling fans remember the most from that period were all the factions. There was like half a dozen factions in WWF running at once. That’s what I want to see in this Batman series.
     
    #324 shauner111, Feb 5, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  25. shauner111 Registered

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    There is a opportunity to grab a bunch of freaky rogues from that gallery and spread them around Gotham. They don’t have to be popular. Besides the iconic rogues that transcend the comics (Catwoman, Joker, Penguin, Two-Face, Riddler) we don’t NEED to repeat Ras Al Ghul, Bane, Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Deadshot, Zsasz or Black Mask. Although I’m OK with a Lee Bermejo-Killer Croc showing up as Penguin’s henchman or Scarecrow being a urban legend inside Arkham Asylum...it’s still unnecessary.

    There are SO many cool rogues. It’s nothing short of amazing.
     
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