I’ll start by saying that I really enjoyed his scene with Batman but it absolutely made no sense to include it. It makes Batman look totally stupid and I can’t believe I’m agreeing with John Campea but he’s right when he said that Joker took a look at one page of that folder for like 10 seconds? And he suddenly knows his exact motives? This Joker is the world’s greatest detective! Give him a cowl. But everything else about the scene was well performed, written and shot. Batman is a little shook by this guy so I’m assuming he did something horrible like mutilating a body or something grotesque. Just a really uneasy feeling in the air.
As for Barry. Let me say this flat out. WHAT are ppl talking about with these Heath Ledger comparisons? I really don’t get it. I don’t see it. I don’t hear it.
Is it fair to call him the best or worst? No. But the scene showed you enough about the character without shoving it down our throats with descriptive backstory details or what’s exactly going on his mind. He is already my favourite depiction of Joker (even over Heath) because he ticks all the boxes for me. So far. I have to add that in there because there may be contradictions in sequels. But right now, he doesn’t seem like a guy with a plan. He seems like the demon controlling a young man’s body, a description I laid out here many moons ago when discussing my ideal Joker. Or how I see the clown prince of crime. He’s just this evil, random, manipulative killer who is enjoying the moment he’s having right there in that cell. He’s a troll. He doesn’t have human emotions. That’s how I would do it if I was writing a script. And that randomness lends itself to a minor role. Someone who comes and goes. He causes trouble and chaos then he vanishes. That’s all that’s needed of him IMO.
So I don’t think he’ll ever be the main villain in these movies nor does he need to be. It’s kinda perfect for Barry Keoghan who is such a little unpredictable menace lol.
I also have no problem with the Joker/Riddler scene. I think it flows pretty well in the movie because I like seeing Edward whining while watching the news, and we hear it play inside Arkham so you best believe Joker and others are hearing about Batman’s heroism. Joker’s first line is something like “isn’t that terrible, him...raining on your parade like that...tsk tsk tsk”. LOL it’s so classic Joker. His laughter is better in the deleted scene, sure. But I still like it there in the final film. It just tells me that he doesn’t have ONE go-to laugh like Jared Leto. He won’t be a one trick pony.
He doesn’t need to be in a sequel if he’s in the Arkham show. Maybe a cameo in the next movie? Unless Arkham’s season ends with a breakout...then we might see Joker and Riddler out and about in 2025. But I’ll just assume he’ll still be locked up in the sequel and get out in the third movie. But not as a main villain.
See, I disagree that Joker shouldn't ever be a main villain here. I think he needs to be hanging out and about on the sidelines for most of the trilogy, but then do his thing and play his real hand in the homestretch of the third film. And there's actually a rather big reason why I think it has to play out this way, beyond the obvious "He's the Defacto Batman Baddie" answer.
After listening back to both the commentary for the film and the commentary he did for the deleted Arkham scene, it really struck me that Reeves keeps talking about how the guy we're seeing in Arkham now isn't
yet the Joker. He's got all the pieces and makings and is well underway to inventing that moniker, but he's not there
yet.
Which obviously sounds strange, seeing as how he clearly already looks like the Joker, he has that established history with Batman already and he already has that brilliant mind and skill to emotionally manipulate others around him. Sure as hell sounds like the Joker to me, right?
But according to Reeves, he's not there
yet. As he has been saying as much for over a month now, and the fact that he brings it up so damn much really feels like Reeves has a very specific reason for why he feels Joker hasn't fully realized himself yet. So what's missing?
Answer:
The scale.
Between what Reeves has said about the "Unseen Prisoner" (I'll just call him John Doe for now) and the fact that he also brought up a fair bit how Batman hadn't ever really faced anything as massive a threat to Gotham City as the Riddler before the events of the films, it sounds to me like John Doe is currently seen by the public, the authorities and Batman as just a particularly brutal serial killer with some notable intelligence in reading people.
And think back to what Doe tells Riddler at the end of the film; "Don't be sad. You did
so well." While obviously the whole bit about a "comeback story" seems like an obvious suggestion for Ed to start thinking of new plans for whenever he gets out of Arkham, I have to think that John Doe is thinking about how to start branching out and really showing this city what
he can do too.
So I think we'll see Joker throughout the trilogy, perhaps rotating between being Bruce's Hannibal Lecter and a recurring support player for the other Rogues Gallery's schemes and keeps raising up his schemes a bit... until we get to the end and Joker goes all out.