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Villains we need to see in this Batman solo franchise

Given the next one will likely explore the power grab, I’m honestly at a loss of who could show up besides Penguin and Catwoman returning. I don’t see Black Mask being used since he was done so recently, and Mr. Freeze doesn’t seem like an ideal fit from a narrative perspective. I’d like to see Hugo Strange but he seems like a better fit for the Arkham show, so I guess Harvey stepping in as the new DA or the newly elected mayor following in the steps of Jessica Dent instead. Otherwise, I’m okay with Poison Ivy, Court of Owls, or Clayface.
 
I think I expressed this on social media during my break but I’ve come to the conclusion that unless Reeves has a super obscure villain under his sleeve, I don’t think we’re getting one main villain in the sequel. I see a Arkham City meets No Man’s Land combo with a variety of rogues popping up, attempting to fight Penguin in a bloody battle for supremacy.

Traditional Heart of Ice Mr. Freeze (a story that Reeves likes) doesn’t exactly work because you have to tell his story from his point of view. Reeves won’t do that. The only way I see Victor working is if it’s influenced by the super grounded 1940’s style Nine Lives, where Ozzy’s hitman is Mr Freeze. That works. Clayface is actually a gangster and enemy of Penguin’s in that book.

The end of The Batman is PERFECT for an ensemble of gangsters and freaks rising up. Freak doesn’t have to mean “monsters”. “Outcasts” is the word i’d use. Poison Ivy, Ventriloquist, Mad Hatter, Killer Croc, Penguin, Catwoman and Joker (if he escapes Arkham at the end of his show). Seems like a lot but not if you know how to write them. Viewing them from Batman’s perspective is the key to this. That’s why movies like Spider-Man 3 feel crowded, because you have multiple perspectives and story arcs. It’s not focused. I trust Matt Reeves to zero in on Batman, then we can see this criminal ensemble through his eyes. Would be the same if you made an adaptation of Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth.

Selina said it’ll be bloody, and I believe it. It feels like a promise lol.
 
ProrenFx would do a fantastic job with a bermejo inspired killer croc after seeing their work on Colin. He would make for a good Rouge for batman to run into and fight as well.
 
Given the next one will likely explore the power grab, I’m honestly at a loss of who could show up besides Penguin and Catwoman returning. I don’t see Black Mask being used since he was done so recently, and Mr. Freeze doesn’t seem like an ideal fit from a narrative perspective. I’d like to see Hugo Strange but he seems like a better fit for the Arkham show, so I guess Harvey stepping in as the new DA or the newly elected mayor following in the steps of Jessica Dent instead. Otherwise, I’m okay with Poison Ivy, Court of Owls, or Clayface.
I think you can incorporate Freeze into the "power grab" angle. Penguin is competing with other mobsters for control of Gotham's organized crime circuit, and there's some guy running around robbing his banks. He assumes it's some other crime boss trying to weaken his position (Maroni, Ventriloquist, Thorne, take your pick), and it only stokes the flames of "war" even higher. Of course, Freeze robbing these banks has nothing to do with Penguin specifically but rather to fund his research for his wife. Or instead of robbing banks, Freeze is targeting GothCorp and Penguin owns a controlled stake in that company. Again, he thinks it's another crime boss trying to sabotage his business efforts. In the third act, Penguin finally figures out who the guy is that's screwing with his business and he sends his men after Freeze. The final action sequence: Penguin and his goons vs Batman and Freeze.

I know we have the Penguin spinoff coming, but I don't see how the first film could end with such a strong emphasis on a bloody power grab and then Reeves doesn't address it in the sequel. So whether it's a mob war, or the freaks of Gotham coming out to play, you can't dangle that plot point and then never circle back to it. So whichever villain Reeves chooses as the main antagonist (or antagonists), I have to think it ties into that.
 
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Only thing is, Freeze robbing Penguin kinda feels like Joker robbing a mob bank.
True. Then I'd have Freeze go after GothCorp and have Penguin involved with the company in some capacity.
 
Yeah, we've already seen Matt do villains with pretty different storylines literally in The Batman. While connected, you still had Riddler + Falcone and the rest of the mob with two fairly differing storylines. Riddler's attempts to expose Gotham's corruption and topple the city along with Falcone's story revolving around Catwoman and Batman's parents. And Matt did perfectly fine there. So I could definitely see a similar approach with Freeze and his attempts to basically burn GothCorp to the group + get funding for his wife along with the power grab storyline which you can tell with Penguin and maybe another villain taking on Penguin's role (as in for a secondary villain with not as much screentime as the rest)
 
I think you can incorporate Freeze into the "power grab" angle. Penguin is competing with other mobsters for control of Gotham's organized crime circuit, and there's some guy running around robbing his banks. He assumes it's some other crime boss trying to weaken his position (Maroni, Ventriloquist, Thorne, take your pick), and it only stokes the flames of "war" even higher. Of course, Freeze robbing these banks has nothing to do with Penguin specifically but rather to fund his research for his wife. Or instead of robbing banks, Freeze is targeting GothCorp and Penguin owns a controlled stake in that company. Again, he thinks it's another crime boss trying to sabotage his business efforts. In the third act, Penguin finally figures out who the guy is that's screwing with his business and he sends his men after Freeze. The final action sequence: Penguin and his goons vs Batman and Freeze.

I know we have the Penguin spinoff coming, but I don't see how the first film could end with such a strong emphasis on a bloody power grab and then Reeves doesn't address it in the sequel. So whether it's a mob war, or the freaks of Gotham coming out to play, you can't dangle that plot point and then never circle back to it. So whichever villain Reeves chooses as the main antagonist (or antagonists), I have to think it ties into that.

I don’t necessarily like the idea of another “who’s doing this” plot line since we just got it with the Riddler and it seems like a pretty obvious set of events if Mr. Freeze is presumably using some sort of freezing tech to kill guards and/or mobsters. I feel like Penguin would put two and two together pretty quickly. That said, I’m okay with Mr. Freeze attempting to rob various sources to help his dying wife. It would be a great motivating factor that would contrast the Riddler’s more ruthless ambitions. Plus, it would make for a tragic juxtaposition to Bruce’s inability to save his parents.
 
The ‘who dunnit’ mystery is classic noir. I don’t see Reeves abandoning that forever.
 
I mean, technically The Batman wasn't a "Whodunnit" in the most classic sense. We knew who did it: The Riddler. The mystery was centered more on the "Why" than the "Who."

Arkham Asylum would be the perfect opportunity for a true "Whodunnit" story. Someone turns up dead in the asylum, and Batman spends the entire movie investigating/interrogating various rogues to find out who committed the crime.
 
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I lean to "Have the mob war aftermath be backstory, its not what the plot of the sequel is about". The fight over the power vacuum has either concluded or stalemated and otherwise constitutes part of the new status quo, rather than the actual focus of the movie.
 
I’m pretty sure Penguin rises up and takes control of the throne at the end of his show. Crushing the traditional gangsters like Maroni’s kind. Then with Penguin firmly in place as the man , the sequel begins with the freakshow flexing against Penguin. I think that’s the sequel. Rise of the freaks battling each other for supremacy. Batman has to stop it and perhaps at some point they direct their negative energy towards him.
 
And it works because it won't affect the sequel's continuity for the GA because not everyone will see the tv series. The ending made us understand that Oz will in fact become the new boss in Gotham and the sequel will open like that.
 
Given the next one will likely explore the power grab, I’m honestly at a loss of who could show up besides Penguin and Catwoman returning. I don’t see Black Mask being used since he was done so recently, and Mr. Freeze doesn’t seem like an ideal fit from a narrative perspective. I’d like to see Hugo Strange but he seems like a better fit for the Arkham show, so I guess Harvey stepping in as the new DA or the newly elected mayor following in the steps of Jessica Dent instead. Otherwise, I’m okay with Poison Ivy, Court of Owls, or Clayface.

Insofar as being suited to the tone and setting established in the first film, I can see any one of these characters showing up at some point:

Lew Moxon
Mallory Moxon
Sal Moroni (a given)
Rupert Thorne
The Scarecrow
Sarah Essen
The Court of Owls
Professor Pyg
Silver St. Cloud
Mr. Zzasz
Joker (another given)
David Cain
The Mad Hatter
 
Anything that’s connected to Joe Chill directly won’t fly in this universe since Matt doesn’t want us (or Bruce) to know who killed his parents. He likes the “killer vanished that night...forever”.

Don’t think David Cain really fits this universe either.

If it gets to the point where they’re letting people in and out of the city again, then I can see Sarah Essen traveling to Gotham to help out.

Crane? Only if he’s introduced in the Arkham series. If so, he’ll have a role further down the road in a movie.

From that list, i only have a good feeling about Thorne, Maroni, Cloud, Tetch and Joker. Mad Hatter as a drophead dealer who got high on his own supply. Low level, taken down early as an example of the crazies who now roam the streets. Joker locked in Arkham until he breaks out. Silver St Cloud as an event planner for high society richies who try to ignore the mess that Riddler caused. Maroni as the main bad guy for the Penguin show. And Rupert as a THORNE in Bella Real’s side (i’ll see myself out don’t worry).

The others that I see working are one intimidating foe (Croc, Bane or Clayface). One small cult leader (Ivy, Mad Monk or Deacon Blackfire) and maybe one hitman for hire (Deadshot or Freeze). Gilda and Harvey will have small roles instantly reminding Bruce of Martha/Thomas. Harvey’s illness will remind him of his mom. Gilda’s strength (with a more than meets the eye) reminds him of his father.

Not all of these will make it in the script but they all fit IMO.
 
The only way I'd want Joe Chill introduced is to wrap up the trilogy. And even then, I'd rather they didn't go that route. Like Matt, I prefer the "never solved" idea. Adds so much to why Bruce continues to be Batman and his fractured psyche
 
The only way I'd want Joe Chill introduced is to wrap up the trilogy. And even then, I'd rather they didn't go that route. Like Matt, I prefer the "never solved" idea. Adds so much to why Bruce continues to be Batman and his fractured psyche


I prefer the Joe chill or killer being caught and known but for this take I think it works better not knowing.

Gotham City is a cellspool like city from hell in this I don't see the GCPD even trying to catch the killer of the Wayne's.

Just shrugging and saying "that's Gotham for you" and moving on.

Batman isn't the a good enough detective yet to solve or anyways.
 
I prefer the Joe chill or killer being caught and known but for this take I think it works better not knowing.

Gotham City is a cellspool like city from hell in this I don't see the GCPD even trying to catch the killer of the Wayne's.

Just shrugging and saying "that's Gotham for you" and moving on.

Batman isn't the a good enough detective yet to solve or anyways.

Yeah, the only way I can think of is something along the lines of Three Jokers. Have Joe Chill on his deathbed and he admits it on said deathbed. The trilogy ends with Bruce being there for him in his final moments, cut to him in the suit getting ready to go back out there as Prime Batman, cut to black. That would be ****ing powerful.
 

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