Villains who fight heroes who are out of their league

[The Overlord]

I have attitude everyday. Tell that to the writers of the Legion of Doom storyarc in JLA.So the fact that Lex Luthor is a threat to the whole world, not just children, and Superman still has trouble catching him means... what, exactly?

The difference is Lex is one of the smartest men in the world and Superman can't get enough evidence to put him behind bars, Toyman is not nearly as smart as Lex and everyone knows he is a dangerous crimial, so there is nothing stopping superman from putting him away 3 minutes after he escapes(except plot induced stupidity.)

 

[Spike_x1]

The difference is Lex is one of the smartest men in the world and Superman can't get enough evidence to put him behind bars, Toyman is not nearly as smart as Lex and everyone knows he is a dangerous crimial, so there is nothing stopping superman from putting him away 3 minutes after he escapes(except plot induced stupidity.)

You obviously haven't read any recent stories involving Lex if you think that Superman can't get any evidence on him.

 

[The Overlord]

You obviously haven't read any recent stories involving Lex if you think that Superman can't get any evidence on him.

And make it stick, that's the problem you have to make it stick. lex can still bribe officals, supress evidence, etc. In a trail the burden of proof is once the DA, not the defense.

Toyman takes away from the uiqueness of Lex, Lex should be the only baseline human who should pose a threat to supes, if some wacko with a toy fetish can do the same thing, Lex seems way less unique.

 

[Spike_x1]

Making the evidence stick has nothing to do with the subject of discussion. The fact is that, with your train of thought, Lex could be caught in moments after committing a crime.

What I was ever so subtly hinting at in my earlier post at the bottom of the last page, was that the technology obviously exists to hide from Superman, because the whole Legion of Doom used it quite effectively.

Toyman takes away from the uiqueness of Lex, Lex should be the only baseline human who should pose a threat to supes, if some wacko with a toy fetish can do the same thing, Lex seems way less unique.

That's a matter of opinion that has never been proven by the comics, so I don't know where you're getting it.

 

[The Overlord]

Making the evidence stick has nothing to do with the subject of discussion. The fact is that, with your train of thought, Lex could be caught in moments after committing a crime.

What I was ever so subtly hinting at in my earlier post at the bottom of the last page, was that the technology obviously exists to hide from Superman, because the whole Legion of Doom used it quite effectively..

Yeah, but that means Schott needs to be with the Lod to have that work, much means he needs to be a team to pose a threat to superman, because doing so on his own requires a lot of PIS.

If Dr. doom formed a villain team, the villains who join that team will be way more dangerous than usual.

That's a matter of opinion that has never been proven by the comics, so I don't know where you're getting it.

That's my opinion. Seriously if Toyma can pose a mental threat to supes, doesn't that mean Lex is less unique in that regard?

Can anyone half way competent villain pose a threat to Supes then?

 

[fifthfiend]

And make it stick, that's the problem you have to make it stick. lex can still bribe officals, supress evidence, etc. In a trail the burden of proof is once the DA, not the defense.

Toyman takes away from the uiqueness of Lex, Lex should be the only baseline human who should pose a threat to supes, if some wacko with a toy fetish can do the same thing, Lex seems way less unique.

That's silly. One person can be a threat while another person is still a much greater threat. Is the Joker not special just because he's not the only crazy person that Batman fights?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But the Joker's the most crazy person Batman fights. He embodies total chaos, which opposes Batman's strict adherence to logic and order nicely.

 

[trustyside-kick]

The Overlord,

If Superman is pre-occupied with something, or just doesn't hear of the news of a breakout, why ***** and moan? Technically, he responds to all "world crimes" so what if while Toyman was loose, he was busy checking out another part of the city or country or world?

The fact that you think Supes should know whenever any villain breaks out, astounds me.

 

[The Overlord]

The Overlord,

If Superman is pre-occupied with something, or just doesn't hear of the news of a breakout, why ***** and moan? Technically, he responds to all "world crimes" so what if while Toyman was loose, he was busy checking out another part of the city or country or world?

The fact that you think Supes should know whenever any villain breaks out, astounds me.

Dude he works at a newspaper, he should be hearing about this stuff before anyone else, plus he has super hearing and X-ray vision, plus he can solve a crisis on the other side of the world and be back in five minutes.

The fact is Superman fighting a child killer is just jarring, it doesn't fit into Superman's world. Its like the Justice league fighting rapists.....

 

[trustyside-kick]

Why does it matter if Toyman is a childkiller? Point is that he has giant toy robots, that are a match for Supes long enough to put him at bay so Toyman can do his thing.

And I think you are exaggerating his super hearing there. I'm not the biggest Supes fan? But I'm pretty sure he cannot hear everything every second, especially if he is focusing on something at the same time.

 

[The Overlord]

Why does it matter if Toyman is a childkiller? Point is that he has giant toy robots, that are a match for Supes long enough to put him at bay so Toyman can do his thing.

And I think you are exaggerating his super hearing there. I'm not the biggest Supes fan? But I'm pretty sure he cannot hear everything every second, especially if he is focusing on something at the same time.

So some random nut can make robots powerful to beat up superman? PIS.

So Superman fights outlandish things like alien warlords and conquerors, then faces off agaisnt a child killer. Does not compute. Superman should be outlandish, trying to stick something as vile and nasty as a child killer into Superman's world, it ruins the escapism.

I'm pretty sure superman should be able to focus in onne guy;s voice if he tries really hard.

 

[The Overlord]

Why does it matter if Toyman is a childkiller? Point is that he has giant toy robots, that are a match for Supes long enough to put him at bay so Toyman can do his thing.

And I think you are exaggerating his super hearing there. I'm not the biggest Supes fan? But I'm pretty sure he cannot hear everything every second, especially if he is focusing on something at the same time.

So some random nut can make robots powerful to beat up superman? PIS.

So Superman fights outlandish things like alien warlords and conquerors, then faces off agaisnt a child killer. Does not compute. Superman should be outlandish, trying to stick something as vile and nasty as a child killer into Superman's world, it ruins the escapism.

I'm pretty sure superman should be able to focus in onne guy's voice if he tries really hard.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't see the problem. Superman exists in a shared universe and child-killers exist in that shared universe. It's not like Superman would see a child-killer and go, "Oops, nope, he's not outlandish enough for me to fight. Sorry, kid!"

 

[The Overlord]

I don't see the problem. Superman exists in a shared universe and child-killers exist in that shared universe. It's not like Superman would see a child-killer and go, "Oops, nope, he's not outlandish enough for me to fight. Sorry, kid!"

That's not a question he should be asking in the first place!

Why not just have Superman fight rapists and pedophiles while your at it.

Child killers do not work in the context of Superman's part of the universe, Superman should be purely escapists, having him fighting child killers totally misses the point.

 

[Spike_x1]

Yeah, but that means Schott needs to be with the Lod to have that work, much means he needs to be a team to pose a threat to superman, because doing so on his own requires a lot of PIS.

No. That is not what it means.

It means that the technology exists. Toyman is probably one of the top ten engineers in the DCU, so he should damn well be able to come up with some means to hide from Superman. Give it a rest.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's not a question he should be asking in the first place!

Why not just have Superman fight rapists and pedophiles while your at it.

Child killers do not work in the context of Superman's part of the universe, Superman should be purely escapists, having him fighting child killers totally misses the point.

Totally misses your interpretation of Superman's point. I don't have a problem with Superman dealing with any sort of bad guy. He's Superman. He sees someone doing something bad, he fights it. It's a simple formula.

Granted, I doubt any really iconic stories are gonna come from Superman fighting pedophiles or rapists or bank robbers, but that doesn't mean they should be completely prohibited from ever appearing in his comic.

 

[Spike_x1]

So some random nut can make robots powerful to beat up superman? PIS.

The thing that you seem to be constantly overlooking, however, is that the Toyman is not just some random nutjob. In terms of crafting mondo lethal death-machines, Winslow Schott is a very real threat to the world.

 

[fifthfiend]

That's not a question he should be asking in the first place!

Why not just have Superman fight rapists and pedophiles while your at it.

Child killers do not work in the context of Superman's part of the universe, Superman should be purely escapists, having him fighting child killers totally misses the point.

Actually having Superman be escapist misses the point. But it's the point DC has been studiously missing for the better part of 80 years, so I guess I can't blame you.

Don't mind me, just keeping this axe here stays well-grinded.

...In fairness child-killers also misses the point, because we have the cops for that kind of thing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

We have the cops for psychos too, but that doesn't stop them from occupying about 90% of Batman's rogues gallery.

 

[Andy C.]

Since we're bringing up super-hearing and all that, considering that the speed of sound isn't really all that fast, if Superman's on the other side of the planet, it would take hours for him to be able to hear something going on in Metropolis. That really doesn't have a whole lot to do with the subject of Toyman, but it always bugged the bad place out of me as to how that was supposed to work.

 

[Vile]

Pretty much ALL heroes could trump their baddies pretty easily...but where is the fun in that?

Batman is a high skilled super intelligent ninja...he should have no problem with the Joker, Two-Face or anyone else.

Same with the Flash, Superman...whatever.

Comic books would be pretty boring if Batman/Flash/Superman swung/ran/flew in, broke *insert rogue here* 's back then left every issue.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Which is part of why heroes tend to have a strict moral code. The restraint Superman, the Flash, and Batman all show makes it far more understandable for their unrestrained villains to give them a hard time than the anti-heroes' situation. Right this minute, in fact, Wolverine is doggedly hunting Mystique down to kill her for her crimes, but we all know she'll be fine, making you wonder just how inept Wolverine really has to be to even have recurring arch-nemeses.

 

[The Overlord]

Totally misses your interpretation of Superman's point. I don't have a problem with Superman dealing with any sort of bad guy. He's Superman. He sees someone doing something bad, he fights it. It's a simple formula.

Granted, I doubt any really iconic stories are gonna come from Superman fighting pedophiles or rapists or bank robbers, but that doesn't mean they should be completely prohibited from ever appearing in his comic.

Oh that's going to get kids into comics, next issue Superman fights a pedophile. That's just going to turn kids and parents off. This is Superman, not Law and Order: SVU

There some things that just shouldn't be covered by comics.

The thing that you seem to be constantly overlooking, however, is that the Toyman is not just some random nutjob. In terms of crafting mondo lethal death-machines, Winslow Schott is a very real threat to the world.

Superman can beat up Darkseid and Brainiac's but a robot made by a human gives him problems, does not compute.

This if you want me to "shut up" as you as rudely put it, maybe you should stop responding to my posts, genius.

 

[Spike_x1]

When did I say "shut up"?

If you're going to pointlessly question the logic behind comics, why aren't you questioning your own motives behind debating your opinion, since you obviously seem blind to anything but that opinion, including the evidence found in the comics themselves?

Really, what is the point in your posting here? Any evidence contrary to what you're saying "is just not how it's supposed to be. Does not compute." There's literally no point in debating anything with you.

 

[The Overlord]

When did I say "shut up"?

If you're going to pointlessly question the logic behind comics, why aren't you questioning your own motives behind debating your opinion, since you obviously seem blind to anything but that opinion, including the evidence found in the comics themselves?

You have acting rude the whole time.

I think your evidence is contradictory. Superman has shown beating more powerful foes in the past (safe beat anything brainiac makes is way more advance than what Toyman makes, after defeating Brainiac's creations, Toyman's robots should be extremely minor speed bumps). Seriously comics should have internal logic, they can be free external logic, but if a character is intelligent and powerful, he always be written that way.

Really, what is the point in your posting here? Any evidence contrary to what you're saying "is just not how it's supposed to be. Does not compute." There's literally no point in debating anything with you.

For kicks mainly. Why would I take a debate about comics seriously? That would be silly.