Wait Til They Get A Load of Us: The Villains Thread

He must have a really good idea on how he would reinvent Hush. The only things that really matter to his character are his bandage mask, surgical crimes and that he’s Bruce’s enemy rather than Batman’s enemy. His reason for hating the Wayne’s is already set in motion, but I’m curious as to what his goal would be.
 
I don't know. Another villain that hates the Wayne family?

I don't want it to become the 'Villain created because Tony Stark made them mad' of the Reeves-verse.
 
Yeah I think it would be best to have a villain that doesn't tie to Bruce Wayne so personally. Which is why, given where Bruce ended the first film emotionally and psychologically, I felt like Freeze would be the next logical progression.
 
If Reeves wants to use a "personal" villain I would rather see him use Andrea Beaumont or some love interest from the past in a Phantasm/Reaper type role where they are even more "vengeance" driven than Bruce was in the first film or even more so than Selina was about Falcone. I would rather not have another white dude with a grievance.
 
Yeah I think it would be best to have a villain that doesn't tie to Bruce Wayne so personally. Which is why, given where Bruce ended the first film emotionally and psychologically, I felt like Freeze would be the next logical progression.

I'd tread carefully with that logic. I get what you mean here in the sense of a villain who isn't directly connected to Bruce Wayne, but I can guarantee you that Reeves will make the conflicting relationship between Bruce and whoever the villain in Part II quite emotionally charged and function on a very intimate level for Bruce/Batman throughout the story. Because that's how Reeves fundamentally tells his stories.

He did it with both Koba and the Colonel in his Planet of the Apes films and he did it again with both Edward and Falcone in The Batman. It's a core part of his approach and storytelling style in wanting to lock the audiences in with a central character in emotionally charged situations.
 
Yeah I think it would be best to have a villain that doesn't tie to Bruce Wayne so personally. Which is why, given where Bruce ended the first film emotionally and psychologically, I felt like Freeze would be the next logical progression.

I'm on the same page regarding Freeze. How this Batman reacts to a villain with a sympathetic motive knowing now that he has to be more than the personification of vengeance continues to sound the most interesting route for me at least.
 
I'm on the same page regarding Freeze. How this Batman reacts to a villain with a sympathetic motive knowing now that he has to be more than the personification of vengeance continues to sound the most interesting route for me at least.
Precisely.
 
I'm on the same page regarding Freeze. How this Batman reacts to a villain with a sympathetic motive knowing now that he has to be more than the personification of vengeance continues to sound the most interesting route for me at least.

You've sold me on Mr. Freeze going against Pattinson and I wasn't into it before.
 
Wait, isn't Freeze too supernatural for this universe? I guy that freezes stuff is not very realistic...
 
Wait, isn't Freeze too supernatural for this universe? I guy that freezes stuff is not very realistic...
I've been reading up on cryonics research and there's an opportunity to do something both deeply tragic and thoroughly creepy with Mr. Freeze in that sphere.
 
I genuinely don't think Freeze is a good fit for Reeves' trilogy for character and plot reasons. Heart of Ice functions best as a one-off episodic story. I don't think it works as the basis for a feature length movie, especially one serving as a sequel to a film that tells a story about Batman's relationship with Gotham as a whole and which uses such a deep rogues' gallery to fill out its cast of characters.

It would feel like a one-off detour and be dissatisfying. It doesn't follow up on the thread of corruption getting worse before better and the power vacuum in the criminal underworld.
 
Thanks to @Drizzle over at the Indiana Jones 5 thread, the idea of casting Toby Jones to play the Ventriloquist in this universe would be utterly amazing and the character would fit right in with Reeves' noir tone.
 
I am fairly sure The Joker will have a role in this film. It makes no sense to tease him in the first, and to have no role in the second.

The best villain for me is Two-Face. After all Gotham DA Gill Colson is dead and they need a new one. VOTE FOR HARVEY DENT!

The only problem is we already had a film with both Joker and Two-Face.
 
Assuming it ever materializes, I don't think we'll see the Joker in action until the Arkham show. He'll most likely be absent in Part II.
 
Assuming it ever materializes, I don't think we'll see the Joker in action until the Arkham show. He'll most likely be absent in Part II.

I feel like if he appears, he kinda needs to be treated like Dr Claw from Inspector Gadget or even Darth Sidious. Plotting in the background and hiding in the shadows. But not an overt involvement in the main plot
 
I think Freeze works for Part II but he wont be the only "villain". It's similar to how Harvey Dent plays in The Dark Knight.

I wouldn't be surprised if Reeves and co used Heart of Ice and his story in Gotham Central as a starting off point.
 
If Batman II is the last Reeves movie, would that change which villains you’d like to see?
 
I think Freeze works for Part II but he wont be the only "villain". It's similar to how Harvey Dent plays in The Dark Knight.

I wouldn't be surprised if Reeves and co used Heart of Ice and his story in Gotham Central as a starting off point.

Not sure what Freeze’s story in Gotham Central is/was but I agree with you that I don’t see Freeze as main villain material. Heart of Ice is a great story but it’s not a feature film.
 
My first choice would be David Cain and Lady Shiva. They would be ex lovers in a ninja war over control of Gotham and Batman is trying to end the collateral damage. It could introduce a proper Cassandra Cain who becomes Bruce’s protege after she rejects her parents’ ruthless philosophies.

My second choice would be the Court of Owls. But I actually prefer the Court as a Nightwing villain as I feel they are most directly tied to him and his family. If you didn’t introduce Cassandra Cain, you could introduce Dick Grayson and have the Court eyeing a teenaged orphan Grayson as their eventual ultimate weapon. The story would be a battle for the young man’s soul.
 
Why do people think the only way to use Mr Freeze is to adapt Heart of Ice?
 
I genuinely don't think Freeze is a good fit for Reeves' trilogy for character and plot reasons. Heart of Ice functions best as a one-off episodic story. I don't think it works as the basis for a feature length movie, especially one serving as a sequel to a film that tells a story about Batman's relationship with Gotham as a whole and which uses such a deep rogues' gallery to fill out its cast of characters.

It would feel like a one-off detour and be dissatisfying. It doesn't follow up on the thread of corruption getting worse before better and the power vacuum in the criminal underworld.

I dunno

Matt already proved he can essentially juggle and connect two storylines at once via Riddler and Falcone in the first movie. I don't think connecting Freeze or Heart of Ice to the overarcing story of Gotham's corruption is necessarily impossible. In fact, you could easily explore different facets of that corruption via having the "Bruce" story and the "Batman" story. Freeze's is the "Bruce" story, with his investigation of the corruption at the top end of the capitalist leaderboardm while Batman's would be the other villain. Obviously the difficulty lies in connecting them together, but if there's anyone who could work that out it's probably Matt Reeves.
 
As much as I love Freeze, I just don’t want him in this story. He’s one of the worst characters to use as a main villain in what’s pretty much Act 2. It just comes off as fan service to me. You would have to shift gears and change quite a bit about his character just to fit him in. He would work better in a stand alone film, another universe or just not at all.

There’s plenty of other villains that make sense for the natural progression of the story.

There needs to be a new D.A., so it makes the most sense to use Two-Face. He’s literally the perfect villain to put in Act 2 where Gotham is rebuilding in the middle of a mob war/power grab that was stated at the end of the first film. For the war, you can bring in Black Mask, Rupert Thorne and/or a number of mobsters.

Someone needs to take over Penguin’s drug operation. Hatter could easily fill this position. I absolutely love this idea and it would be interesting for sure, but not necessary.

There’s the murder of Edward Elliot that can possibly lead to the rise of Hush.

You have the inmates at Arkham. So far we only know of Joker and Riddler, but there were a few other occupied cells. You also have Harley, Crane and Strange that could potentially work there.

Catwoman is definitely returning and there’s no telling what role she would play, but I would love to see her go up against her half sister Sophia Falcone.

That’s a lot going on already. The cheap and uninteresting way to bring in someone random as the main villain is to blame the death/tragedy of a family member on Riddler’s flood that led the villain to causing havoc. I say just build on what we already have and stick to it being an epic crime saga.
 

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