Spoilers WandaVision vs. Falcon and the Winter Soldier vs. Loki

[Pennywise]

Tough choice between Loki and WandaVision.

Falcon and Winter Soldier was the weakest, but I still really enjoyed it.

 

[fan4stic]

What seems contradictory is that you struggle to take Loki seriously as a villain in Avengers but are okay with him as a subordinate character in his own show - he literally has zero agency, until maybe the last 5 minutes of the entire season. Otherwise he is literally led around by the other characters.

Hey, if you liked the Loki show , fair enough, but next time you're marvelling at its clever writing
think about the bit where Loki gets cold and makes a blanket - he's a frost giant, in the Thor film, he's shown to be immune to the cold touch of other Frost giants which damages even Asgardians with a painful instantaneous frostbite. He doesn't get cold. Certainly not in a space that is capable of supporting trees and grass. That's how much thought the writers put into this show.

Let's just go for polite disagreement then.

I don't think he has zero agency. I think his agency drives his choices. From early on in the show, throughout. He's making choices to do things in the whole show. I don't think he's a subordinate. Maybe a dual protagonist, but the show is called Loki, not 1 Loki. Both the main characters are Loki's.

I didn't say I marveled at it's clever writing or that I think it had clever writing, or that I think the show was really that consistent. That doesn't mean that what I addressed is what I think is wrong with the show.

 

[Weather Witch]

I think all of these shows had problems in their finales, but overall I really enjoyed each of them. WandaVision gets a slight edge on Loki for me, then followed by Winter Soldier which took me a few episodes to really get into.

 

[Batmannerism]

I don't think he has zero agency. I think his agency drives his choices. From early on in the show, throughout. He's making choices to do things in the whole show. I don't think he's a subordinate. Maybe a dual protagonist, but the show is called Loki, not 1 Loki. Both the main characters are Loki's.

I didn't say I marveled at it's clever writing or that I think it had clever writing, or that I think the show was really that consistent. That doesn't mean that what I addressed is what I think is wrong with the show.

Soooooo...polite disagreement and moving on.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Is not about which is the best series, more like in which order to watch it?

nah sorry, it actually is about what one you liked the most

Yall out ya damn minds imo

I had to clip your post because I'm not even sure why you implied what you implied with this line...Loki has more votes than the other two options combined

 

[BoredGuy]

I was responding specifically to the comments above mine, not talking about the general consensus

 

[Doctorwho12]

Loki

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I was responding specifically to the comments above mine, not talking about the general consensus

okay, well I can't always tell if there are no quotes in the post

 

[ObsidianFist]

They were all varying degrees of mediocre to absolute crap, mostly because of the ineptitude of the writers:

1) Wanda Vision, an interesting concept until the end when we find out that Wanda is the real villain who enslaved a town full of people and turned them into human puppets because she couldn't deal with grief like an adult.

The writers betray their lack of talent when they have Rambeau try to paint Wanda as giving up something..." they'll never know what you sacrificed " what did she sacrifice ? Nothing, the Vision she created wasn't real, the kids weren't real - but the townspeople suffering was real.

So they show us Wanda doing something really evil , but tell us she's the victim. This is why good storytellers show rather than tell.

I do give the show points for developing Wanda's character in a way that makes sense and is consistent with some heel turns she actually went through in the comics.

All up 6/10.

2) Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Don't you love it when escapist entertainment brings in real world contemporary political issues and starting preaching a particular agenda - not in a subtle or clever way, but by literally shoving it in the audience's face..... well I don't!

Let's think about the most enjoyable and popular MCU films and how they tackled contemporary political issues.... they didn't, unless you want to take Thanos as making an important statement about overpopulation.

Remember how all the other Captain America movies dealt with racism. They didn't, but still managed to be great.

Some of you probably enjoyed how the series incorporated 2020's American racial politics into its story. Fair enough, that's your call. Me, if I want to see that stuff I'll watch the news. Superhero and comic book films are escapism, and I'm not interested in watching the characters import real world angst. "Do better Senator!" Thanks Sam, got any concrete suggestions or solutions as to how to resolve the complex multifaceted issues that have arisen after an unprecedented event like the snap/blip ? Nope, okay then.

Like WandaVision this show has some terrible messages - some of which come from the main character, that terrorism ( including murder) is actually okay.

Remember how Bucky was a deadly hand to hand combatant with decades of experience, and super strength? Wouldn't it be awesome if some angry millenials ( true they had taken the serum, but there's no way and women half his size could give him a legit problem in a fight....nope, it wasn't.
And I loved hearing about his feelings.

Sharon Carter turning to the dark side ( deciding to sell govt secrets ) totally made sense.... nope, pass on that one.

On the plus side I thought Mackie and Stan had good chemistry. That was enough to make the show watchable.

Zemo was very entertaining, but unfortunately he was so clever that he made our heroes look like morons over and over again. But the show was better for having him in it.

John Walker.... well, again the writers clearly didn't know what they were doing here, especially his turn from enraged, revenge driven man to joking and backslapping in no time at all. It's like, the super serum made him unstable....and then it didn't?
Him killing that guy with the shield made sense, he lost control after the terrorists kidnapped and killed his friend right in front of him. After that his fight with Bucky and Sam made sense, although again Bucky was seriously nerfed here. I mean are you telling me that Walker could push Bucky harder than Cap ? Other than that a pretty good fight scene with emotional stakes.

All in all 7/10.


3) Loki. While the other shows were a mixed bag this show was almost entirely ****.

First and worst, Loki himself. He goes from being a clever, calculating charming and dangerous villain in the films to being everyone's *****.
He spends the entire series running around after smarter, stronger characters - namely Sylvie, who's the real protagonist of the show. Loki is a side character in his own show.

Remember how Loki is super humanly strong and tough, yet human TVA agents can manhandle him? Or that he suddenly has magic powers that he never used in the films ? This is not good writing.
Alligator Loki has more agency than he does.

I feel like the writers mistook character destruction for character development.

Then there's the underlying premise, which makes everything that happened in the MCU films utterly meaningless. In fact even then all the stuff that happens in the show is pointless because Kang manipulated it all so that they would reach his office.

On the positive side, Classic Loki was awesome and Alligator Loki didn't take any crap.

I could go on about nearly every other aspect of this show, but I don't want to relive it so I'll sum it up by giving it a 1/10, mostly because it takes a huge steaming **** on everything that came before it.

The fact that so many people seem to enjoy Loki and are entertained by him running around like a clueless *******, except when he's having long pointless conversations, depresses me no end.

So I guess Falcon and Winter Soldier wins..

This is one of the best answers and correct. Everyone sayin Loki and Wandavision were great are lying to themselves and just want to be seen as being clever. Loki was a big drag and I could barely finish it.

 

[ObsidianFist]

Tough choice between Loki and WandaVision.

Falcon and Winter Soldier was the Strongest, but I still really enjoyed it.

I fixed that for you. WV and Loki were overthought and over processed snoozefests.

 

[TheWiseGuy487]

They were all varying degrees of mediocre to absolute crap, mostly because of the ineptitude of the writers:

1) Wanda Vision, an interesting concept until the end when we find out that Wanda is the real villain who enslaved a town full of people and turned them into human puppets because she couldn't deal with grief like an adult.

The writers betray their lack of talent when they have Rambeau try to paint Wanda as giving up something..." they'll never know what you sacrificed " what did she sacrifice ? Nothing, the Vision she created wasn't real, the kids weren't real - but the townspeople suffering was real.

So they show us Wanda doing something really evil , but tell us she's the victim. This is why good storytellers show rather than tell.

I do give the show points for developing Wanda's character in a way that makes sense and is consistent with some heel turns she actually went through in the comics.

All up 6/10.

2) Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Don't you love it when escapist entertainment brings in real world contemporary political issues and starting preaching a particular agenda - not in a subtle or clever way, but by literally shoving it in the audience's face..... well I don't!

Let's think about the most enjoyable and popular MCU films and how they tackled contemporary political issues.... they didn't, unless you want to take Thanos as making an important statement about overpopulation.

Remember how all the other Captain America movies dealt with racism. They didn't, but still managed to be great.

Some of you probably enjoyed how the series incorporated 2020's American racial politics into its story. Fair enough, that's your call. Me, if I want to see that stuff I'll watch the news. Superhero and comic book films are escapism, and I'm not interested in watching the characters import real world angst. "Do better Senator!" Thanks Sam, got any concrete suggestions or solutions as to how to resolve the complex multifaceted issues that have arisen after an unprecedented event like the snap/blip ? Nope, okay then.

Like WandaVision this show has some terrible messages - some of which come from the main character, that terrorism ( including murder) is actually okay.

Remember how Bucky was a deadly hand to hand combatant with decades of experience, and super strength? Wouldn't it be awesome if some angry millenials ( true they had taken the serum, but there's no way and women half his size could give him a legit problem in a fight....nope, it wasn't.
And I loved hearing about his feelings.

Sharon Carter turning to the dark side ( deciding to sell govt secrets ) totally made sense.... nope, pass on that one.

On the plus side I thought Mackie and Stan had good chemistry. That was enough to make the show watchable.

Zemo was very entertaining, but unfortunately he was so clever that he made our heroes look like morons over and over again. But the show was better for having him in it.

John Walker.... well, again the writers clearly didn't know what they were doing here, especially his turn from enraged, revenge driven man to joking and backslapping in no time at all. It's like, the super serum made him unstable....and then it didn't?
Him killing that guy with the shield made sense, he lost control after the terrorists kidnapped and killed his friend right in front of him. After that his fight with Bucky and Sam made sense, although again Bucky was seriously nerfed here. I mean are you telling me that Walker could push Bucky harder than Cap ? Other than that a pretty good fight scene with emotional stakes.

All in all 7/10.


3) Loki. While the other shows were a mixed bag this show was almost entirely ****.

First and worst, Loki himself. He goes from being a clever, calculating charming and dangerous villain in the films to being everyone's *****.
He spends the entire series running around after smarter, stronger characters - namely Sylvie, who's the real protagonist of the show. Loki is a side character in his own show.

Remember how Loki is super humanly strong and tough, yet human TVA agents can manhandle him? Or that he suddenly has magic powers that he never used in the films ? This is not good writing.
Alligator Loki has more agency than he does.

I feel like the writers mistook character destruction for character development.

Then there's the underlying premise, which makes everything that happened in the MCU films utterly meaningless. In fact even then all the stuff that happens in the show is pointless because Kang manipulated it all so that they would reach his office.

On the positive side, Classic Loki was awesome and Alligator Loki didn't take any crap.

I could go on about nearly every other aspect of this show, but I don't want to relive it so I'll sum it up by giving it a 1/10, mostly because it takes a huge steaming **** on everything that came before it.

The fact that so many people seem to enjoy Loki and are entertained by him running around like a clueless *******, except when he's having long pointless conversations, depresses me no end.

So I guess Falcon and Winter Soldier wins..

Well…this comment makes a whole lot more sense in retrospect.

But, I guess we don’t have to worry about them posting and spreading their misogynistic, transphobic, “old man yells at cloud” filth on these boards anymore.

 

[wheni64]

1. Loki
2. WandaVision
3. Falcon and the Winter Soldier

 

[Babillygunn]

Not gonna lie. I hated WandaVision with a passion.