Gotham Ways to improve Gotham

[R_Hythlodeus]

Cancel it.

the best DC show? so we're stuck with Flash/Supergirl/Arrow - level atrocities? No thanks

 

[Kathemy]

Yeah, it's not even just the best DC show, it's the best superhero-themed show currently on television, including all shows focusing on supernatural beings.

 

[famicommander]

I can make declarative statements on subjective matters too.

Gotham is the worst comic book show on television, and the worst since Smallville. By far.

See?

 

[Kathemy]

And you're perfectly welcome to make them. Just don't try to shut up Gotham fans speaking in the Gotham forum.

Oh and as a side note... Be prepared to defend your statements. The comme il faut behavior when speaking in a forum devoted to a show is that negative views should be qualified, while positive views may be aired without it, unless it's in direct response to a qualified negative view. In other words, the burden of proof is on you. Despite all the negative press making the bashers of this show feel oh-so-entitled, these fora have not deteriorated to the level of the fanforum.com Vampire Diaries Spoilers threads, where the haters absolutely own the discourse.

 

[Verick808]

I think the show needs someone like Victor Sage's The Question. He would fit in perfectly with the noir feel of the dhow and having someone like him in the city might start giving Bruce some of his own ideas on cleaning up crime in Gotham.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Cancel it.

Hahaha as soon as I saw the title of this thread, I wanted to post this, but you beat me to it!

 

[Kathemy]

Well, I guess we can at least be happy that the Gotham haterdom hasn't yet reached the supreme sense of snotty entitlement one encounters in TVD circles.

 

[GothamSerenade]

Truthfully, they went about this show in the absolute wrong way.

It should have been a series that focused on Gotham/Commissioner Gordon throughout Bruce's first year as Batman without actually seeing Batman on screen. We'd only see the effects of Batman's war on crime.

The show, as it is, is enough to keep me entertained because of my overall interest in the mythos, but it's just disheartening to think of what actually could have been.

Ways to improve Gotham:
01. Time jump.

 

[Kathemy]

So, instead of a prequel story to Batman you want Year One, only without Batman. I'm sure that would have been well-received.

 

[ZIPBAGS]

Bring back Jerome as Joker.

You can do a time jump where Bruce is starting his vigilante work...but, still not dressed as Bats.

I know the producers have said that if they can go 10yrs...the show will end with Bats. But, if for some reason the show is cancelled in a couple of seasons. I hope the producers do a time jump to see Bruce become Bats.

 

[GothamSerenade]

So, instead of a prequel story to Batman you want Year One, only without Batman. I'm sure that would have been well-received.

Yes, I do... and it wouldn't be nearly as disjointed as it is now. Season 1 should have ended with Bruce returning to Gotham beginning to start his crusade. All of that would be happening in the background with all of Gordon's encounters being the main viewpoint.

That angle would have been far more interesting than what we're already getting; I say this as someone who still watches the show faithfully.

As it stands, Bruce's segments in the show now are the least interesting bits.

 

[craigaat]

I know the producers have said that if they can go 10yrs

Not happening.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

make it a part of the same universe as green arrow, flash, and supergirl

 

[Kathemy]

Yes, I do... and it wouldn't be nearly as disjointed as it is now. Season 1 should have ended with Bruce returning to Gotham beginning to start his crusade. All of that would be happening in the background with all of Gordon's encounters being the main viewpoint.

That angle would have been far more interesting than what we're already getting; I say this as someone who still watches the show faithfully.

As it stands, Bruce's segments in the show now are the least interesting bits.

I guess at that point we just will have to agree to disagree. For me the conscious choice to start the story with the murder of Bruce's parents was the right one. It puts the show into the position of being able to portray the entire transformation of the character, thus I also think that his scenes are the most interesting.

I'm not going to lie here, I honestly get pissed off about people who are calling for a "time jump" which would mean getting rid of Mazouz and possibly Bicondova, when these two are the most promising actors on the show and their interaction is pure magic. It just stinks of "impatience" to me.

 

[Taarna]

I guess at that point we just will have to agree to disagree. For me the conscious choice to start the story with the murder of Bruce's parents was the right one. It puts the show into the position of being able to portray the entire transformation of the character, thus I also think that his scenes are the most interesting.

I'm not going to lie here, I honestly get pissed off about people who are calling for a "time jump" which would mean getting rid of Mazouz and possibly Bicondova, when these two are the most promising actors on the show and their interaction is pure magic. It just stinks of "impatience" to me.

No one wants to get rid of Mazouz and Bicondova! Would you be okay to a time jump where Bruce as a teenager learns something important and has a flash back to it as Batman in action? And when I say flashback as Batman I'm thinking just a few minutes.

I think it would add to the show, and bring in new viewers that prefer action over plot. In fact, it can add a lot to the plot in a current timeline, revealing something in the future.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

1."Time jump" but honestly only for Bruce, get him to 16/17. everyone else is fine, Selina's actress can pass as older.

2. Flashbacks involving Bruce's parents. I don't care what they are, even Bruce just watching tv with Thomas Wayne*

3. *Gray Ghost, pretty much just straight BTAS rip.

4. A "flash-foward retelling" basically a time-jump to the future (in the time of Batman) with Batman having already captured a minor villain like Firefly.
with full on Commissioner Gordon recalling stuff from the current era that plays some part in the future portion.(so basically we can get some payoff/closure that the show is honestly never going to be able to get to)

 

[Dr doomsday]

No, no and no. This isn't batman it's an origin of the entire batman mythos Bruce's journey, penguin's journey, Nygma's, Gordon, Selena's, Barbara's, Bullock, how Alfred became Bruce's father figure. Those are the main characters and nearly all of them have had great development. More so this is the fall of Gotham the events that lead to a city that would need batman in the first place, the kind of city that creates monsters like the joker. That's what they're showing us how Gotham become a place of insanity so consumed by it that the only thing that could battle it was something equally as crazy. For the first time I feel I understand Gotham, I understand how much of a wrenched place it is and see why the law needed to be taken in another's hands, even Nolan didn't really show this.

Bruce's character has been handled well, oh he's whiny the writing is awful, well for one whining doesn't equal bad writing people need to understand this. For two Bruce being this bad ash kid who could be batman not being whiny or weak would be bad writing.

In season 1 he starts broken than detached his relationship with Selina makes him open up a bit more. His detective side begins to emerge when investigating his parents death but he's still a kid and makes foolish mistakes he then discovers his father's letter begging him to choose happiness.

What happens next Bruce tries to have a life, tries to forge a relationship and it's a deception as shown the reveal of this makes him more cold as the last two episodes show now he's abandoned happiness and is ready to uncover the truth. Bruce in season 2 was a necessary part of his journey and very well done character development.

Also I think what some consider good writing is questionable, The Flash is loved yet spoilers coming, season one ended with the death of a character that resulted in the villain being erased from existence this should erase Flash from existence but it doesn't this is a massive plot hole that season 2 pretty much ignores for all it's problems Gotham does not have a plot hole that glaring also season 2 of the flash is using the same story structure as 1 who is the mysterious villain? Is that good writing at least Gotham isn't rehashing previous season plot points.

Anyway it all ties back to the waynes their death's are what triggered the fall of Gotham. If you made it a GCPD series it would just be another cop show, why bother making a show based off of the batman mythos if you won't even use those mythos?

 

[Kathemy]

"So basically we can get some payoff/closure that the show is honestly never going to be able to get to."

"Not happening."

Yeah, yeah...

http://www.tvgrimreaper.com/2016/01...ens-renewed-thank-foxs-ratings-collapse/1207/

During those weeks, the Monday, Tuesday & Thursday ratings for all the Fox scripted shows including Scream Queens (0.9, 0.9, 0.8, 0.9, 0.9, 0.9, 0.7, 0.5, 0.7, 0.8, 0.9, 0.7, 0.7, 1.0, 1.0, 0.9, 0.9, 0.9, 0.8, 1.1, 1.0, 1.0, 0.9, 1.5, 1.5, 1.4, 1.6) averaged just a 0.96. Kudos to those who guessed that the last 4 ratings were for Gotham, that’s why it’s, of course, certain to be renewed.

You were saying?

 

[NiallC]

The problem I had with Gotham has been solved. I started watching as it was shown but gave up after three episodes because I couldn't understand the tone and because it looked like they were just going to do a villain of the week type thing. The tone is much better now and they've done what most of the other comic shows don't do with stories now arching over several episodes which j think began with the Electricutioner. That is one of the best things about the show as the villains actually feel like villains as they aren't appearing and disappearing within one episode.

For me I don't see a problem with Bruce. Yes it's strange how important they've made him to the plot by that's how DC comics have always been. Everything is so intricately connected that it doesn't bother me with the show. We should count our blessings that he was played by a 14 year old in the first season instead of a comic faithful version at like 10. By the midpoint of season 3 I can imagine we will see him much stronger and independent. In season 1 the main story of the mobs being the villains weren't related to Bruce that much whereas as the Galavan story is much more intertwined with Bruce making him more relevant and will push him further.

I would like more villains created for the show. Despite giving up after the episode for a while before binging over summer I really did love Balloonman as a character. I'd love more and I'd love some more of the newer characters. We've so far only seen Dollmaker and Flamingo but there's a few more. I'd love to see Professor Pyg and Id done before how they are totally done in the comics.

 

[Kathemy]

Actually I came up with the best way to improve Gotham.

The best way to improve Gotham is for the viewer to understand it.

 

[famicommander]

That's an extremely pretentious outlook, to assume that people who don't like the same things as you only differ because they don't understand it. I understand entirely what Gotham is trying to accomplish. I just don't find it entertaining in the least bit.

 

[TheRedWraith]

The problem I had with Gotham has been solved. I started watching as it was shown but gave up after three episodes because I couldn't understand the tone and because it looked like they were just going to do a villain of the week type thing. The tone is much better now and they've done what most of the other comic shows don't do with stories now arching over several episodes which j think began with the Electricutioner. That is one of the best things about the show as the villains actually feel like villains as they aren't appearing and disappearing within one episode.

For me I don't see a problem with Bruce. Yes it's strange how important they've made him to the plot by that's how DC comics have always been. Everything is so intricately connected that it doesn't bother me with the show. We should count our blessings that he was played by a 14 year old in the first season instead of a comic faithful version at like 10. By the midpoint of season 3 I can imagine we will see him much stronger and independent. In season 1 the main story of the mobs being the villains weren't related to Bruce that much whereas as the Galavan story is much more intertwined with Bruce making him more relevant and will push him further.

I would like more villains created for the show. Despite giving up after the episode for a while before binging over summer I really did love Balloonman as a character. I'd love more and I'd love some more of the newer characters. We've so far only seen Dollmaker and Flamingo but there's a few more. I'd love to see Professor Pyg and Id done before how they are totally done in the comics.

I think Balloonman was a good concept that was executed badly. I personally would have made him be the vigilante, as he already looked like an all black version of him. I would have kept the same civilian name he had in the show as well as a similar motivation, but he would have been the grandson of Gregory Sanders the first vigilante and would have used his grandfather's pistols to enact what he perceived to be Justice.

He would have been tied into a two hour first season series premiere in a two episode arc (1&2), where he is used by the GCPD as a patsy so they can say they caught the wayne killer. Jim catches onto the deception like he did in the show and is dedicated to bringing him in alive so that he can reveal the truth. After Jim successfully captures Vigilante, Jim is ambushed and subdued enroute to the police station after his car is detoured. He would awaken and see Vigilante dead in a parking garage or abandoned warehouse with his gun in hand and Flass standing in front of him. Flass would them make it clear he shot vigilante executioner style with Jim's gun and would force to him to go along with corruption otherwise they would reveal this information to the public, incrimating and framing Jim in the murder of the vigilante.

The Waynes would have been killed at the end of the first episode after we had some time to see their dynamic and relationship with Bruce, while also planting the seeds for the conspiracy arc with Thomas Wayne that would appear later in season 1, like Bruce trying to enter his father's study but the door is locked and the music is playing. Thomas would also have interaction with Bunderslaw and would be seemingly complicit in the companies shady dealings. Also finally giving Martha some justice and establishing her as an impactful character to Bruce.

Flass would have been introduced in the first episode and made into a season long antagonist (at least until a couple episodes after the midseason return) ending it with Jim taking him down like he did in the show, enraging Loeb and putting Gordon on his Radar.

Using Vigilante could have also allowed for them adapt the post-crisis Vigilantes later on by them being inspired by the first vigilante and taking up his mission.

 

[Kathemy]

That's an extremely pretentious outlook, to assume that people who don't like the same things as you only differ because they don't understand it.

Working as intended. I wanted to mirror the attitude of the show's bashers. You know, those claiming that James Frain "can't act" and the ones whining about the "pre-teens". The difference being I can actually back up my arguments.

I understand entirely what Gotham is trying to accomplish. I just don't find it entertaining in the least bit.

Just out of curiosity, have you watched season two yet?

 

[famicommander]

I haven't seen enough of James Frain to comment but I agree wholeheartedly with any and all criticisms about the kid actors. And Ben McKenzie, whom I consider the worst lead in a comic book show since Tom Welling.

And I watched about five episodes of season one, quit for some time, was convinced to give it another chance at the end of season one, still hated it, watched two episodes of season two, and decided it was a bad show.

That's about the same path I took with Agents of SHIELD.

 

[ALittlePush]

I haven't seen enough of James Frain to comment but I agree wholeheartedly with any and all criticisms about the kid actors. And Ben McKenzie, whom I consider the worst lead in a comic book show since Tom Welling.

And I watched about five episodes of season one, quit for some time, was convinced to give it another chance at the end of season one, still hated it, watched two episodes of season two, and decided it was a bad show.

That's about the same path I took with Agents of SHIELD.

I disagree about Ben McKenzie, I think he's a decent enough lead. The kid actors can go either way, they're better in some episodes than others. Also the higher quality acting of the adults can put the kids in the shade so it's less the kids' acting is bad and more the adults' acting is better.