We need lower budget, R rated comicbook movies.

striving for a rating can bring in "tunnel vision" and that's not good either
 
I read it as being "We need low budget, R rated movies" as a whole...

The R rating eats into the general demographic of Comic book adaptions in the first place, so the best way to get a feasible return to cover the losses that occur from removing the product from the "family dollar" is to create a low-budget, low-risk film.

THIS I agree with.

Studios don't like taking big risks with unproven entities...
 
Some movies would be fine as low budget. Not everything has to be a blockbuster. Some comics are made to be rougher, more adult, or in the R category. But to plan on making a comic movie R just so that it can be R is basicly a teenager dream.

One of the most general audience and comic book fanboy enjoyable movies in the last 10 years was a little something called THE INCREDIBLES.
 
Disney/Pixar put visual crack in their movies....thats the secret I think
 
Some movies would be fine as low budget. Not everything has to be a blockbuster. Some comics are made to be rougher, more adult, or in the R category. But to plan on making a comic movie R just so that it can be R is basicly a teenager dream.

One of the most general audience and comic book fanboy enjoyable movies in the last 10 years was a little something called THE INCREDIBLES.
Could not have said it better myself.
 
Disney/Pixar put visual crack in their movies....thats the secret I think
I don't think there is a secret...

Disney and Pixar just concern themselves with making good product... They have a well known brand which they can rely upon, but they don't - not overly. They just keep coming out trying to make quality movies which can be enjoyed by all which are rated low enough to keep bringing in the family dollar.

I mean, Pixar COULD make an R rated film... but why would they? Their brand has accumulated a hell of a lot of goodwill over the years and it would just be dumb.

I just figured that this topic was about addressing the point of how these studios should go about supporting these films with R rated themes and how they don't HAVE to be big-budget summer smashes... in fact, considering the fact that there is a stigma against higher rated comic book properties (largely due to some of the stuff which has been produced) the best way to deal with the risk is to build up some goodwill in the genre with some nice low-budget surprises...
 
We need lower budget, R rated comicbook movies.

That's what the Wolverine movie should have been. Remotely low budget, R rated, more or less staight adaptation of BWS's Weapon X arc.
 
and it probably would have made the same amount or less money
 
I think that the failures of Watchmen and the Punisher have essentially killed the future of R-rated comic book films.
 
and it probably would have made the same amount or less money

But the budget would of been smaller.

That is the point here.

You want to make a good, comic book accurate movie about the likes of Moon Knight and Wolverine etc? Don't water them down. Don't market them at kids. With those types of characters, it just doesn't work. But watering them down, you are instantly taking away major parts of them that appeal to people in the first place.

Therefore, make them for less money. Smaller budget, smaller financial risk.

Someone said Wolverine would of been crap if it was R? Maybe so. But one of the main problems with Wolverine was the fact that the movie was a massive contradiction. It was supposed to be about Wolverine fighting against his animalistic, violent nature to become a human being.

Well, what animalistic, violent nature? He was a ****ing ***** to be frank. Why should you feel invested in this characters struggle, if it is displayed inadequetly? Freeing the shackles by having a more modest budget and making it rated R would of not just added more gore and violence to the film... but more emotional punch.

People are not asking for rated R comic books films just because violence is cool. They are asking for it because with certain characters, it is ESSENTIAL that they are not watered down. And if the studios realized that they don't have to throw 150 million dollars at the likes of Wolverine, then they wouldn't have to water it down.
 
I think that the failures of Watchmen and the Punisher have essentially killed the future of R-rated comic book films.

I don't think that's the case. You have to remember that Marvel's first successful franchise was Blade, and all three of those movies were R rated. Seeing success like that, it's only a matter of time before someone wants to crack open that well again to find that type of audience.
 
but there is also that built in audience for vampire movies...so that helped Blade as well
 
I'm actually kind of surprised the recent Punisher flick didn't do very well. It seems like the kind of thing that could attract an audience even with the R-rating. But then again it wasn't exactly a great film.

Watchmen
's failure did not surprise me. The material is tough enough on its own, and what Snyder did with it was painfully mediocre.
 
I think Watchmen failed because it was too long and too hyped. It started off well, but I think it failed because people didn't really want to sit down for nearly three hours in a movie that wasn't the greatest thing ever like it was hailed as. Watchmen was an innovative moment in comics history, but you have to remember that it isn't the 80s anymore. As groundbreaking as it was at the time, being reintroduced to audiences that weren't really around during the Cold War wasn't going to make casuals observers think it was the Second Coming.
 
and it probably would have made the same amount or less money
It would still been a better movie.

I'm not thinkin what makes the biggest box office hit, I'm thinkin what makes a good film. Yeah, I know, I wouldn't do good business in Hollywood. :oldrazz:
 
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Watchmen failed because it was marketed as a violent, action packed super hero movie.

Then when people got to the cinema and watched it, or read reviews... it becomes apparent that it isn't action packed or a super hero movie. It's a cold war conspiracy thriller featuring people in outlandish costumes. Add that to the fact that the structure of the movie, the way it was edited together was pretty hard to follow for the G.A... then it's no surprise it bombed.

Plus some things in the film were just ridiculously crap. Like the sex scene on Night Owls ship.

I do still applaud Snyder though. The production design was amazing. And he basically stuck his middle finger up to the G.A and made the film for the fans.
 
Disney/Pixar put visual crack in their movies....thats the secret I think

Soon it will be Disney/Pixar/Marvel.

I don't mind seeing PG-13 Blade or Werewolf by Night, as long as it's overseen by the same people doing Pixar cooperating with Marvel people.
 
And he basically stuck his middle finger up to the G.A and made the film for the fans.
If that's what he was trying to do he didn't really succeed with that either. And besides you shouldn't go out and make a movie with the sole intention of pleasing the fans.
 
It would still been a better movie.

I'm not thinkin what makes the biggest box office hit, I'm thinkin what makes a good film. Yeah, I know, I wouldn't do good business in Hollywood. :oldrazz:

fair enough

If that's what he was trying to do he didn't really succeed with that either. And besides you shouldn't go out and make a movie with the sole intention of pleasing the fans.

oh no, how dare you insinuate such an idea??:oldrazz: you are cast out....out
 
If that's what he was trying to do he didn't really succeed with that either. And besides you shouldn't go out and make a movie with the sole intention of pleasing the fans.

That's the sad truth of being a hardcore fan of a character being adapted into a movie. Selling well is a top priority over telling a good story to please the hardcore fans. They know the hardcore fans will go see the movie no matter what, so their goal is to get people's interest who don't really know about the character.

I still think Snyder's style of adapting comics straight from the page can work, but he just needs better source material than Watchmen. Watchmen's Cold War analogy isn't too appealing or relevant nowadays to casual audiences, but 300 is because it has spears and guys killing each other.
 
Here's my theory on why Watchmen failed with the GA; clearly the emotional, human core of the story was Dan and Laury. Two of the characters Snyder handled the worst. Leaving the film intellectually stimulating, but emotionally cold.

Yes, Doctor Manhattan was perfect, so was Kovacks, but those characters don't exactly melt your heart.

Snyder's Watchmen looked like the comic, but didn't feel like it.
 
and you can blame most of that on the horrible casting choice of Malin Ackerman....every time I see her, I want to club her with a blunt object for sucking all the warmth out of a scene

and Ive hated her since Entourage
 
Watchmen isn't supposed to feel like a comic book, in the traditional sense atleast.

It was just so finely crafted, and expertly fitted for the medium it was designed for...It's hard enough for me to wrap my mind around how they could have adapted it without pissing people off.

I would really like to see comic book tv series, actually. An HBO live-action series of any comic that needs the R-rated room could be interesting. But, I just think a mini-series, or a series in general, leaves more room to get any of the source material right. The possiblities for character development alone could be worth it.
 
That's the sad truth of being a hardcore fan of a character being adapted into a movie. Selling well is a top priority over telling a good story to please the hardcore fans. They know the hardcore fans will go see the movie no matter what, so their goal is to get people's interest who don't really know about the character.

I still think Snyder's style of adapting comics straight from the page can work, but he just needs better source material than Watchmen. Watchmen's Cold War analogy isn't too appealing or relevant nowadays to casual audiences, but 300 is because it has spears and guys killing each other.
Define "better".

The problem is that Snyder took, too literally, a source material whose greatest strength is its depth and metaphorical meaning. He then took his own liberties with parts where YOU CAN'T take liberties because they're completely out of character.

Don't start me off on how wrong Rorschach planting a cleaver in dude's head is, in terms of his character...
 

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