What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

[Mjölnir]

Which would have resulted in even more collateral damage. This was basically a battle of gods. How many buildings would Superman have to let himself get punched or thrown through to get out of Metropolis? The city was huge.



Or he'd kill humans only to get Superman's attention again. Keep the fight in the city, where Superman can't fully exert himself.

How can he destroy more by taking a few blows than the destruction that was caused by both him and Zod taking many blows? And it's not about succeeding, it's about trying to do what's best for the ones you are trying to protect. Or he could have tried to remove Zod from the location. It's not about succeeding, it's about doing what's best for others even though you risk more for yourself. Superman is that kind of hero so it's different from when, for example, Hulk smashes things left and right because he's always part monster.

That's an assumption that's less supported by the movie than that he would just follow Superman. They took the fight into space once when both were flying, but they still ended up in the city again.

I have watched MOS 3 times now.. I am pretty sure Zod wanted to die... he was just threatening the world so that Supers kill him... he's lost his purpose... he was genetically engineered for one thing, without which he's self-destructing..

Yes, he had no more purpose but my interpretation is that he definitely wanted to kill Superman first for vengeance. If he didn't have that strong drive he'd have crumbled mentally rather than becoming stronger and stronger.

 

[Mjölnir]

Yoo need to realise he's not that Superman yet. This is an inexperienced Clark Kent, he's never been in this situation before where he's had to save the whole planet and take on people as powerful as he is.

But Superman isn't a superbeing that become good. He's a good person that became a superhero. The movie shows his natural instinct to help people even though it requires great risk for himself, and it was with him already as a little kid.

I guess both interpretations work since they flip-flop between him doing that and him not helping. He disobeyed his father's orders to save the other kids in the school bus and it turned out it didn't cause any huge problems. Then he won't do the same for his own father, despite that he's actually learned from experience that it doesn't have to be extreme consequences because people obviously think that those that talk about superheroes are crazy.

 

[blumatic]

How can he destroy more by taking a few blows than the destruction that was caused by both him and Zod taking many blows? And it's not about succeeding, it's about trying to do what's best for the ones you are trying to protect. Or he could have tried to remove Zod from the location. It's not about succeeding, it's about doing what's best for others even though you risk more for yourself. Superman is that kind of hero so it's different from when, for example, Hulk smashes things left and right because he's always part monster.

That's an assumption that's less supported by the movie than that he would just follow Superman. They took the fight into space once when both were flying, but they still ended up in the city again.


Yes, he had no more purpose but my interpretation is that he definitely wanted to kill Superman first for vengeance. If he didn't have that strong drive he'd have crumbled mentally rather than becoming stronger and stronger.

He wouldn't have been able to remove Zod. The villain always chooses the battle field. In Superman 2, he fled without telling anyone anything. Zod stayed. Luckily for the city he didn't destroy it. Lex Luthor told Zod where Superman would be. Zod agreed to go, but he could have just stayed and caused havoc.

You can't take the villain out of the city.

 

[BlueLantern]

The villain always chooses the battle field.

Tell that to Clark who battering-rammed Zod into Smallville town center. Or was that Zod's master plan?

 

[Mjölnir]

He wouldn't have been able to remove Zod. The villain always chooses the battle field. In Superman 2, he fled without telling anyone anything. Zod stayed. Luckily for the city he didn't destroy it. Lex Luthor told Zod where Superman would be. Zod agreed to go, but he could have just stayed and caused havoc.

You can't take the villain out of the city.

Apart from him actually taking the fight into Smallville, as BlueLantern already stated, it's not even about succeeding to remove Zod. It's about trying to do the right thing. Intent, not success, is what truly defines the hero.

That's what makes Superman eventually killing Zod acceptable. Intent. He didn't want to and suffered from doing it.

So it goes both ways.

 

[Nathan]

Tell that to Clark who battering-rammed Zod into Smallville town center. Or was that Zod's master plan?

I think that's the only thing I hold against him. Then again, Clark is new on the job. He never used his powers to fight anyone. Not even regular people. Zod was threatening his mother, and his switch basically flipped, and he was just raw emotion.

 

[BlueLantern]

It's pretty much one of the only 'natural' fight scenes in the film. The rest is all stoic faces but with perfectly choreographed end results. That rawness doesn't go forward.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I hate how Lois' character was handled in the film.

It's almost as though the minute she meets Clark for real in the graveyard, she stops being the Lois Lane we all know and love.

We start off with a couple of 'Loisy' lines. And I loved the look on her face after Hardy tells her she can pee in a bucket. That smile was pure Lois to me.

But half way through the movie they just give up on her dialogue holding any Lois like features.

She just becomes a kind of wet, bland character who spends the rest of the film either staring at Supes lovingly, or frantically trying to get out of bad situations she's in.

She was kind of a boring Lois

Which is frustrating, cause the glimpses at the beginning quite clearly show me Amy could play a great Lois if they gave her the material.

 

[BlueLantern]

She was a plot device played by Amy Adams. Her middle name is MacGuffin-Five.

 

[PacificBoy]

It's pretty much one of the only 'natural' fight scenes in the film. The rest is all stoic faces but with perfectly choreographed end results. That rawness doesn't go forward.

Agree. The Smallville battle worked because of the stakes were clear: his mother and his hometown were being threatened (also helped by the scene-stealing Faora). Metropolis as a living, breathing city was hardly introduced before all the mayhem went down. It was one big Transformer-esque blur of CGI action that when it came down to Zod's death I was so taken out of it I didn't really care.

 

[blumatic]

How can he destroy more by taking a few blows than the destruction that was caused by both him and Zod taking many blows? And it's not about succeeding, it's about trying to do what's best for the ones you are trying to protect. Or he could have tried to remove Zod from the location. It's not about succeeding, it's about doing what's best for others even though you risk more for yourself. Superman is that kind of hero so it's different from when, for example, Hulk smashes things left and right because he's always part monster.

That's an assumption that's less supported by the movie than that he would just follow Superman. They took the fight into space once when both were flying, but they still ended up in the city again.


Yes, he had no more purpose but my interpretation is that he definitely wanted to kill Superman first for vengeance. If he didn't have that strong drive he'd have crumbled mentally rather than becoming stronger and stronger.

He wouldn't have been able to remove Zod. The villain always chooses the battle field. In Superman 2, he fled without telling anyone anything. Zod stayed. Luckily for the city he didn't destroy it. Lex Luthor told Zod where Superman would be. Zod agreed to go, but he could have just stayed and caused havoc.

You can't take the villain out of the city.

 

[robot]

Yes, he had no more purpose but my interpretation is that he definitely wanted to kill Superman first for vengeance. If he didn't have that strong drive he'd have crumbled mentally rather than becoming stronger and stronger.

Zod never truly wanted to kill anyone... i mean, not for killing's sake...

I am not sure he grew stronger, and if he did, it definitely not his control.. it's the exposure to the sun... he was forcing supe's hands... if he had wanted to kill supe, he wouldn't have threatened the family at the end.. he'll still be fighting... he was in a chokehold position.. and he knew if he continues to threaten supe, he is leaving no choice in the matter...

 

[Smallville13]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I hate how Lois' character was handled in the film.

It's almost as though the minute she meets Clark for real in the graveyard, she stops being the Lois Lane we all know and love.

We start off with a couple of 'Loisy' lines. And I loved the look on her face after Hardy tells her she can pee in a bucket. That smile was pure Lois to me.

But half way through the movie they just give up on her dialogue holding any Lois like features.

She just becomes a kind of wet, bland character who spends the rest of the film either staring at Supes lovingly, or frantically trying to get out of bad situations she's in.

She was kind of a boring Lois

Which is frustrating, cause the glimpses at the beginning quite clearly show me Amy could play a great Lois if they gave her the material.

I do kinda agree. I really wish there had been a scene in the scout ship after Clark mends her stomach where Clark tenderly comforts her and she (whilst clearly in alot of pain) is making light of it and we get some soft humor between the two of them whilst also really starting their bond. Just a simple character moment between the two of them. Instead she is just offscreen ditched out on the ice...

The cemetery scene just didn't seem like enough for the development between the two of them it sparks.

 

[blumatic]

Tell that to Clark who battering-rammed Zod into Smallville town center. Or was that Zod's master plan?

Noone is saying Superman wasn't careless. But he was careless in the Donner films. He was not looking at where he was going. I read comics and seen cartoons where Superman gets into battles and destroy buildings, it baffles like this is new.

 

[robot]

I do kinda agree. I really wish there had been a scene in the scout ship after Clark mends her stomach where Clark tenderly comforts her and she (whilst clearly in alot of pain) is making light of it and we get some soft humor between the two of them whilst also really starting their bond. Just a simple character moment between the two of them. Instead she is just offscreen ditched out on the ice...

The cemetery scene just didn't seem like enough for the development between the two of them it sparks.

The Lois/Clark suffers from the same character development problem throughout the film... Goyer / Snyder doesn't know how to do it... that's why MOS 2 needs another writer...

Noone is saying Superman wasn't careless. But he was careless in the Donner films. He was not looking at where he was going. I read comics and seen cartoons where Superman gets into battles and destroy buildings, it baffles like this is new.

Exactly.. I have watched all the cartoons now (Justice League, Superman, etc)... and he's killed plenty... he's destroyed plenty of buildings, brought down planes, sunk submarines, destroyed starships, etc, etc...

The 'supe doesn't kill' is the most inconsistent thing ever... Fans that like that idea, will pick and choose comics, etc that shows he doesn't and then ignore or rationalize everything else away..

 

[tomoe]

you just made up of a lot of your own scenes for you to dislike the movies.

Uh, what scenes did I make up? I was stating something that could have very easily happened. People keep excusing his behavior as oh he's still a rookie but that's no excuse if his actions led to the deaths of people. It's one thing if you can't control the final battleground it's another if you actually brought it to where it would kill the most people. Maybe it would have ended up there anyways but like I said it should not have been Superman that brought it there rookie or not. And trust me I had followed this movie for the past 2 years and wanted to love it so much. I did not hate it but I feel Goyer and Snyder are not smart or clever enough and therefore Superman is not smart. It's like they didn't think certain scenes or story points through. Even so I enjoyed it overall but those scenes that piss me off really are putting me off to seeing it again. The pacing and editing didn't bother me like it did some people so a second viewing won't change that for me, but the dumb scenes will still be there.

 

[blumatic]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I hate how Lois' character was handled in the film.

It's almost as though the minute she meets Clark for real in the graveyard, she stops being the Lois Lane we all know and love.

We start off with a couple of 'Loisy' lines. And I loved the look on her face after Hardy tells her she can pee in a bucket. That smile was pure Lois to me.

But half way through the movie they just give up on her dialogue holding any Lois like features.

She just becomes a kind of wet, bland character who spends the rest of the film either staring at Supes lovingly, or frantically trying to get out of bad situations she's in.

She was kind of a boring Lois

Which is frustrating, cause the glimpses at the beginning quite clearly show me Amy could play a great Lois if they gave her the material.

I know this a complaint thread so it's fair game.

But what they did with Lois was great. She knows Kal-El almost by first hand. She met JorEl. She knew how to stop the Kryptonians from taking over. She helped throughout the film. No longer is she a girl continuously getting kidnapped making things difficult for Superman. She helped him. They went through a battle together. That forms a true bond as opposed to being smitten all the time.

 

[StarvingArtist]

Just to drive this point home...

These. I have a complaint or two about these.

 

[robot]

Just to drive this point home...

These. I have a complaint or two about these.

Anything to bring in the ladies...

 

[BH/HHH]

But Superman isn't a superbeing that become good. He's a good person that became a superhero. The movie shows his natural instinct to help people even though it requires great risk for himself, and it was with him already as a little kid.

I guess both interpretations work since they flip-flop between him doing that and him not helping. He disobeyed his father's orders to save the other kids in the school bus and it turned out it didn't cause any huge problems. Then he won't do the same for his own father, despite that he's actually learned from experience that it doesn't have to be extreme consequences because people obviously think that those that talk about superheroes are crazy.

But at this stage in his career he's going to make mistakes he can't be a 100% perfect from the word go like he was in the Donner film.

 

[BH/HHH]

Great point. Everyone just considers "the Superman I know", but fail to think about what experiences might have shaped him to be that person. Now the reasoning has a real sense to it.

The scream after begging Zod to stop symbolised his deep values but also that he was left without choice, and this superman who never kills, well what if you had to for the greater good. It was a situation he needed to be put in.

Exactly people need to realise this isn't the Superman they know from the comics. He can't just turn into that guy just because he's put the suit on, it takes time and these principles he has about not taking a life etc have to stem from somewhere other than he's just good.

Just to drive this point home...

These. I have a complaint or two about these.

I would have loved to know why they settled on those designs

 

[StarvingArtist]

Exactly people need to realise this isn't the Superman they know from the comics. He can't just turn into that guy just because he's put the suit on, it takes time and these principles he has about not taking a life etc have to stem from somewhere other than he's just good.



I would have loved to know why they settled on those designs

Goyer: "But Zach...(wipes the bath salts from his mouth) how do we transport Zod and his accomplices to the phantom zone? We can't just rehash the giant flying sheet of glass thing, that's just ludicrous. It's gotta be fresh!.. it's gotta be alien ass kicking badass bad bad ass bad! Gotta be something that says 'this is 2013 and we're not *****ing around."

(moment of solemn introspective pause)

Snyder: Goyer, my friend?...."D*cks."

Spoiler

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I know this a complaint thread so it's fair game.

But what they did with Lois was great. She knows Kal-El almost by first hand. She met JorEl. She knew how to stop the Kryptonians from taking over. She helped throughout the film. No longer is she a girl continuously getting kidnapped making things difficult for Superman. She helped him. They went through a battle together. That forms a true bond as opposed to being smitten all the time.

Lois not being a damsel in distress and actually helping Supes isn't new.

Maybe in the films, but that's definitely a part of the character I love, and I'm glad she was given a more active role.

But it's how that role played out, and how boring her dialogue was while doing it.

The sass she usually has, the stubborness, the passion she has for journalism... It all just dissappeared half way through the film.

And it wouldn't have taken much.

Like a defiant comment to faora when she's putting the breather on her.

Or a line like 'if I get through this, this is going to make one hell of a story' when she's flying into metropolis on the plane with the military.

Anything to show me this is still Lois Lane.

But they just didn't bother.

 

[BH/HHH]

Goyer: "But Zach...(wipes the bath salts from his mouth) how do we transport Zod and his accomplices to the phantom zone? We can't just rehash the giant flying sheet of glass thing, that's just ludicrous. It's gotta be fresh!.. it's gotta be alien ass kicking badass bad bad ass bad! Gotta be something that says 'this is 2013 and we're not *****ing around."

(moment of solemn introspective pause)

Snyder: Goyer, my friend?...."D*cks."

Spoiler

well we all know the Alien franchise designs are full of penises and vaginas among other things lol

 

[BlueLantern]

Noone is saying Superman wasn't careless. But he was careless in the Donner films. He was not looking at where he was going. I read comics and seen cartoons where Superman gets into battles and destroy buildings, it baffles like this is new.

He's also proactively protected people in those very same comics. Read origin stories like Birthright and Secret Origin.

He's in the middle of a fight whilst civilians are in danger but he'll use his wits to ensure the safety of innocents whilst still attempting to eventually subdue his opponent.

Having one without the other creates an imbalance that then resulted in my extreme disappointment.