The Dark Knight Rises What didn't you like about the movie? - Part 1

[MarvelKnight]

And as far as the lie being uncovered, I thought it was just..fine. Wasnt some classic cinematic moment and Seems like the inmates cared more than anyone ....but it served it's purpose and set up for a pretty sweet home-stretch of a movie.

 

[MarvelKnight]

^Gordon does know. The bat signal was fixed. Who do you think he thinks fixed it?

Ah, yes, Good point.

 

[BatManFan_NYC]

Hmm, this reminds me. On the Ferry Catch 22 of TDK. Was that guy who said, "Let's put it to a vote" an extra? The way he deilvered the line, his facial expression etc. sounded like something out of a bad spoof movie.

I actually liked the "Let's put it to a vote" guy.
his facial expression always has me rolling.
it's a very believable bit of dialogue & facial expression too.
He seemed like a commoner, a n00b almost.

[imo]

 

[BatManFan_NYC]

^Gordon does know. The bat signal was fixed. Who do you think he thinks fixed it?

Anyone could have fixed it. It doesn't have to be Bruce \ Batman.

(a) - Grateful Cops - [see how they cheered him when he EMP'd the Tumbler during the Wall Street Scene
(b) - MCU Cops - Now knowing the sacrifice he made for Gotham, with Dent, and 8 years later, after Dent..
(c) - JGL\Nightwing\Robin - [far fetched, but hey... it's more plausible than Batman doing it].

If Batman was so full of himself that he fixed his signal on the top of MCU, c'mon... that would mean he's saying "If you ever need me... "light it up"

but as far as we know he's done with that life...

It was probably some of the same Cops we saw hacking it down at the end of TDK. I'm just about as sure as anyone can be without having spoken to the folks who wrote the screenplay.

 

[TanneRain]

imo Gordon doesn't know at the end that Bruce/Batman survived. I feel the only 2 who knew were Alfred and Lucius, and neither of them would ever tell anyone else because Bruce finally got 'his life' outside of batman with Selina and whatnot.

Gordon even says " Batman " when he's looking around after finding the signal.

 

[BatManFan_NYC]

imo Gordon doesn't know at the end that Bruce/Batman survived. I feel the only 2 who knew were Alfred and Lucius, and neither of them would ever tell anyone else because Bruce finally got 'his life' outside of batman with Selina and whatnot.

Alfred knows, Lucius only suspects..
just because the Autopilot was fixed 6 months back, doesn't necessarily mean that he used it.

Remember the moment of reflection \ indecision during the close-up in the Bat, moments before the bomb goes off?

Lucius suspects, I should say Lucius hopes that somehow Bruce Survived, but there's no way he knows for sure.

look at the emotion he showed at Bruce's funeral. Jeez, if Lucius and Alfred are as close as we're led to believe in Begins,

[remember he trusted him when Batman got gassed by Scarecrow]

don't you think he would have circled back and told Alfred?
[after the funeral]

Lucius hopes at best, that Bruce survived. The only ones who know for sure [that's revealed to us] is Selina and Alfred.

not even JGL [as far as we're shown in the movie]

 

[BatManFan_NYC]

Gordon even says " Batman " when he's looking around after finding the signal.

but that confirms nothing.

 

[TanneRain]

It's heavily implied that Batman fixed the signal, as everything in the final montage has to do with the actions of Bruce.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I knew that was going to happen.

Just like I knew by the end of the movie Bruce would retire and Gotham would make Batman into a martyr. You all said I was crazy, but I was right along!!!

 

[BatLobster]

It was okay, I guess.

I found the whole thing kind of forced, in TDK and in TKDR.

It's not like Bane couldn't have released the inmates without the lie being uncovered, but it made for a nice moment, a shift of momentum/power, and gave Blake something to confront Gordon over. Gordon never seemed to learn anything from his mistake, though, and I don't think the film ever dealth with Batman's role in the cover up, or Gotham's reaction to it, or to the reveal that Dent went loco, or any of that. And then Batman and Gordon basically just lied to Gotham again after Bruce's actions at the end of the film. The whole element was handled in kind of a subpar manner.

I thought it was the right choice to downplay the inevitability of "Wh..wait, so Batman was a hero after all?". It's just not needed. The public always had mixed relationship with Batman, so the reveal of his role in the coverup just adds one more layer of complexity to who Batman is in the eyes of Gotham. Selina's "You've given them everything" line certainly seemed to allude to Batman taking the blame so I wouldn't say the film completely missed dealing with this aspect of things. It's important to remember that Selina in many ways is a representative of the average Gothamite, or at least she would like to think she is.

I also like that in the end, The Dark Knight stays the The Dark Knight. I think a lot of people were expecting to see Bruce Wayne become the White Knight. I don't think the film should have tried to deliver some moral about how lying is always wrong when TDK had so powerfully illustrated that sometimes it's necessary.

 

[BatManFan_NYC]

It's heavily implied that Batman fixed the signal, as everything in the final montage has to do with the actions of Bruce.

"Heavily implied"? Dude... I feel strongly about my convictions as well but heavily implied? let's not get carried away now...

 

[The Guard]

I thought it was the right choice to downplay the inevitability of "Wh..wait, so Batman was a hero after all?". It's just not needed. The public always had mixed relationship with Batman, so the reveal of his role in the coverup just adds one more layer of complexity to who Batman is in the eyes of Gotham. Selina's "You've given them everything" line certainly seemed to allude to Batman taking the blame so I wouldn't say the film completely missed dealing with this aspect of things. It's important to remember that Selina in many ways is a representative of the average Gothamite, or at least she would like to think she is.

I'm speaking in terms of Batman realizing his impact on the city. The Nolans kind of uphold the morality of his decision at the end of TDK by just...not dealing with it much.

As far as Gotham's response to Batman as a hero, there's the statue to him and the dedication and all that, after his "sacrifice", kind of a larger version of what Dent got at the end of TDK...but Gotham apparently doesn't give two figs that Dent went crazy and killed a bunch of people.

Of course by that point they've got bigger problems.

 

[DACrowe]

It was meant to be the "Storming of the Bastille" moment. He uses it to rile up people and it seems pretty effective when crosscut with him speaking, the prisoners (even Selina) looking pissed, the poor being arrested and thrown out of their homes, and the Robespierre-esque court shot.

But it did feel awfully convenient how Bane got a hold of that confession. It kind of did appear because Gordon was cracking, but I give the film a mulligan. Could he have released the truth before Bane took over the city? I suppose, but it really is what do want to use it more for? Bane's introduction to Gotham which undercuts his terrorist attack or as his rallying French Revolution moment....even though he already has basic control of Gotham?

I am fine how it was. People wonder what Ledger's Joker would have done? I do not think he'd be the main villain (it'd probably still be Bane), but whether he had a smaller role or was the main villain again, he would have revealed the truth in a convincing way that was not so convenient.

 

[DACrowe]

^Gordon does know. The bat signal was fixed. Who do you think he thinks fixed it?

Bruce could have fixed it before dying? Or when Blake shows up as Batman, he could assume it is Blake. Sure, the way he turns his head looking for Bruce when he finds the signal shows that he suspects. But we do not know if he truly knows.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I did feel that it was a little forced and shoehorned in but I guess it was the only way they could make it work. What bothers me is you never see anyones real reaction to it, Bane states it in front of Blackgate and its not mentioned again the rest of the film.

 

[DACrowe]

You Selina representing the prisoners and Blake representing the everyman. Other than Blake and Foley, both cops, there is no representation for the rest of the city in the movie.

 

[BatLobster]

You Selina representing the prisoners and Blake representing the everyman. Other than Blake and Foley, both cops, there is no representation for the rest of the city in the movie.

Exactly. And honestly, I'd rather have it explored the way the film did, with more fleshed out characters acting as symbols for different sects of Gotham, as opposed to an influx of more "NO MOAR DEAD COPS!"-esque extras.

 

[Arta]

Bane and Talia would have no reason to look for or question the lie, so it worked in the frame of this film's story.

I'm talking about Gotham. Gotham has no reason to believe that Bane, the guy who just blew up a football stadium and isolated Gotham City in a terrorist attack, was really reading a letter from Gordon. As far as they knew he could have been pulling that out of his ass.

I kept waiting during that speech for Bane to pull out some evidence or smokescreen that it was true, but no, the citizens pretty much take him at his word.

I did feel that it was a little forced and shoehorned in but I guess it was the only way they could make it work. What bothers me is you never see anyones real reaction to it, Bane states it in front of Blackgate and its not mentioned again the rest of the film.

That bothered me as well. It's not really explored well before as well. I mean Gordon lost his family over it and it's mentioned in passing, when in fact this would be a major event in the lives of Batman and Gordon.

 

[8wid]

I think it was ruined because by the time Bane had occupied the city and had armed thugs holding it hostage, Gothamites pretty much realized regardless of whatever happened to Harvey Dent, Bane and the League of Shadows was still coming to destroy their city regardless and they had to work with what they had. Besides all of the men he released were also convicted through the proper legal process regardless if the police were given greater spying powers for something based on a lie. The men were still convicted in a court of law regardless of what had happened and were still dangerous when they were armed. Besides the city had experience the greatest peace and freedom from crime it had seen in decades. Bane suddenly comes in and ruins it with his armed occupation and threatens to nuke the entire city. Why would they want to work with them again just because of a lie?

 

[The Guard]

You Selina representing the prisoners and Blake representing the everyman. Other than Blake and Foley, both cops, there is no representation for the rest of the city in the movie.

I don't really see Blake as representing the everyman so much as he represents the good cops. But he was obviously presented as a unique type of cop in Gotham. There was nothing "normal" about him.

 

[kvz5]

I don't really see Blake as representing the everyman so much as he represents the good cops. But he was obviously presented as a unique type of cop in Gotham. There was nothing "normal" about him.

He's pretty much a Gary Stu.

 

[Team Andino]

I was disappointed at first, I felt it should of been something he knew going in to add to the destruction of the city from within. I did however grow to like it seeing as it showed that Gordon was truly about to bring it all crashing down at the Dent Day ceremony. To think for all those years how its haunted him and made him lose his family, and he was willing to bring everything they fought for crashing down in his speech made quite an impact on me.

Looking back though after all these years waiting for this movie knowing how much was on the line based on that lie I do wish they would of had Bane know about it in another way. I use to spend hours with friends speculating how the truth would come out way back when TDK had come out, our speculation only grew when we found out Bane was the villain.

 

[The Guard]

The thing is...how would Bane know if he didn't find out in the middle of TDKR?

Only Gordon and Batman and Gordon's family know about what happened. Well, and all those cops who established a perimeter in TDK...

 

[Doc Samson]

Even more than the way it was uncovered, I didn't like how Gordon seemingly gets away with it. In a universe Nolan treated previously with more of a grounded plausibility, TDKR was much looser in this regard, in a variety of ways.

Personally, I at least would've liked to see Gordon getting questioned instead of sitting up watching the unveiling of Batman's statue. TBH, I kind of expected him to resign because of it, if not get arrested outright. Regardless of him helping to save the city from mass destruction repeatedly, he blatantly sidestepped the law, and technically, imprisoned criminals illegally. I really wanted to see it addressed, but it's not a deal breaker. Just an odd omission...

 

[Demon Hunter]

I think that people's reaction to the lie would've been completely unnecessary. Bane revealed the lie so he can only let the prisoners of Blackgate loose and give some sort of power into their hands. He didn't really care how the people of Gotham would react. His aim was to hide his plans as an act of Revolution instead of a terrorist attack and the lie only worked in his favour. Until the very end the Pentagon still believed that Bane wouldn't detonate the bomb so that's why they didn't really do anything about it.

Which leads me to a question I can't answer myself. Why didn't Bane and Talia detonate the bomb as soon as they had it?