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Arrow What happened to Raisa? Guggenheim tweet solves the mystery!

luis4u

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I love how upset some people are about Guggenheim's reply, despite the fact that Raisa only appeared for a few minutes in the Pilot.

https://***********/mguggenheim/status/544266944304521218

@aburrida11 @AJKreisberg @GBerlanti @ARROWwriters Raisa is doing 5 to 15 in Iron Heights for solicitation.
 
I'm pretty sure no one cares about Raisa. The outrage seems mostly to be venting about how the women in the show seem to get treated. I'm personally of the fence about it. I mean, they can use comic canon as an excuse for killing Moira and Sara, but killing Shado (a living character in the comics) purely so she could join the long line of 'female characters dying to motivate male leads' pissed me off.

However, if they end up killing Tatsu and having Maseo be a major character motivated by her death, I will jump onto the angry feminist side of the fence and scream holy hell.
 
No one cares about Rasia, but I thought it was sloppy how she just vanished after serving the sole purpose of showing that Ollie spoke Russian now.
 
I figured out who she was based on the fact that I had no idea who she was combined with people asking where she went. I googled to confirm it.
 
I thought it seemed like they wanted her for the "Alfred" role.Just a confidant he could trust around "Queen Manor".But then Diggle filled that role better than anyone could,and she quickly became superfluous.
 
It's a little funny seeing the overreaction to his tweet.

I'm pretty sure no one cares about Raisa. The outrage seems mostly to be venting about how the women in the show seem to get treated. I'm personally of the fence about it. I mean, they can use comic canon as an excuse for killing Moira and Sara, but killing Shado (a living character in the comics) purely so she could join the long line of 'female characters dying to motivate male leads' pissed me off.

However, if they end up killing Tatsu and having Maseo be a major character motivated by her death, I will jump onto the angry feminist side of the fence and scream holy hell.

Well, I think they treat both genders fairly. I'd give them **** if I thought otherwise. But, they did use the death of a male character to motivate the male lead. I mean, that motivation has changed the main character pretty dramatically. And it was a man who died.

Shado's death did serve a pretty good purpose, in terms of conveying an aspect of the narrative in season 2, so it worked for me.

I was a little surprised by the reply tweet of "with how you've treated women this season". Seemed like an unfair comment with no real basis. But, hey...that's twitter for you.
 
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It's a little funny seeing the overreaction to his tweet.



Well, I think they treat both genders fairly. I'd give them **** if I thought otherwise. But, they did use the death of a male character to motivate the male lead. I mean, that motivation has changed the main character pretty dramatically. And it was a man who died.

Shado's death did serve a pretty good purpose, in terms of conveying an aspect of the narrative in season 2, so it worked for me.

I was a little surprised by the reply tweet of "with how you've treated women this season". Seemed like an unfair comment with no real basis. But, hey...that's twitter for you.

That's people on the internet in 2014. You can't kill female characters off without being label misogynistic. Basically the Tumblr crowd has rewritten the definition of what it means to misogynistic.
 
It's a little funny seeing the overreaction to his tweet.



Well, I think they treat both genders fairly. I'd give them **** if I thought otherwise. But, they did use the death of a male character to motivate the male lead. I mean, that motivation has changed the main character pretty dramatically. And it was a man who died.

Shado's death did serve a pretty good purpose, in terms of conveying an aspect of the narrative in season 2, so it worked for me.

I was a little surprised by the reply tweet of "with how you've treated women this season". Seemed like an unfair comment with no real basis. But, hey...that's twitter for you.

Yeah, IMO Arrow treats female characters a lot better than other TV shows. They're not just there for their looks, they all have a purpose–Felicity, Thea, and Laurel alike, just in the main cast. And this isn't your typical "show female skin but not male skin," either. Arrow has as much (or more) male skin as female skin; as evidenced when Ollie was shirtless in at least one scene every episode for the first season, and most of season 2, as well (not sure about season 3; haven't started on it yet). Whereas the female characters (usually) dress fairly conservatively. Though I have seen pictures that indicate Thea's dress is getting a little more revealing in season 3.
 
Yeah, that's true. There's way more Male eye candy than Female. And hey, I've seen enough use of it the other way around in other media that I can't get mad at it. But, Ollie seems to always be shirtless. Hell, they even managed to get Ray (Brandon Routh) shirtless this season.

I'm a man, and I consider myself a feminist. I believe in treating both genders equally, and I do believe there can be really distasteful ways of displaying women onscreen or in any story. So, I've really tried to think about how women have been treated on Arrow this season, going back to the tweet I quoted in my previous post.

And...I got nothing. I think S. Grundy is right.

(I'll play it safe and try to be vague with spoilers) I mean, yes there was a major female character that was killed. But, that didn't motivate the male lead. Hell, it kinda made him look cold hearted with how little it has motivated him emotionaly (on purpose, I'm sure). I mean, he's got purpose but he seems to be doing it out of duty. Instead, the death of that female character is what's motivating another female character.

And then I thought about the episode where she got beat up for trying to protect another woman, a victim of abuse. But, they were treating her like a real character and not some superwoman. They were treating her like they would treat a male character. It looked equatable to how Bruce Wayne had failed his first night in Batman Year One, where he wound up getting stabbed in the leg and shot by police, almost dying.

This whole thing has reminded me about some false alarms we can get from misdirected outrage. And man, that worries me. I'm all for holding sexist *******s accountable. But, seeing the outrage wrongfully misdirected just bothers me alot.
 
I was just summing up the twitter opinion. I mostly disagree with them (especially considering how sexist Green Arrow stories often were, and how much Arrow has stepped away from that part of the canon). As I said, some of the character death was entirely justified, and male and female characters tend to get damseled equally. I hold to my original opinion: if they kill Tatsu in order to motivate Maseo, it'll feel like a trend, and an ugly one at that.

Weirdly, I feel like the flashbacks have a sexist bent to them that is just not present in the main show. Not sure what's up with that (Sara was understandably useless, but both Shado and Tatsu are badasses that seem to have little to no agency and even Waller is just useless at her supposed job; in the modern story, all the female characters have as much control over their lives as the men.)
 
I'll wait and see on how things go with Tatsu and Maseo. I wouldn't say it'd feel like a trend for me, but it would be too predictable a thing. Unless the juke us by having faked her death. I just feel like they leeway with me before I can label them sexist.

I'd have to look it over, but my guess would be about the flashbacks that they're usually from Ollie's perspective. The flashbacks, by in large, all revolve around him. Shado was pretty badass, I thought. Waller seems absent because of how big she is. Feels kinda like Nick Fury, while he was Director of Shield, on Agents of Shield during season one. I also can't see them using her, on a purely story level, as the hand holding type because she seems so driven by results, and seems impatient with people. Her throwing Ollie onto someone's lap to get him through the growing pains fits with me.

Tatsu...that seems legit to me. But, I wonder if it says more about the culture they're depicting. China (where the flashbacks are set) and Japan (where Tatsu, and I think Maseo too, are from) does still have a strong patriarchal society, I wouldn't even want to get into the depiction of women in Japanese media, but women are still really set in those homemaker role through the media I've taken in. I think the way it's set up in the flashbacks with Tatsu, having a the slant you mention, would fit with the society.

I do think Tatsu's role has a rather sexist slant to it, but I think it's intentional.
 
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