What Impact does SV have on a new Superman movie?

[KyleDW2]

This one's my favorite.. Clark is The Blur...while Kara, the same age as him, is a fully formed superheroine, with flight, revealed to the public, with a glasses-wearing dual identity, and now takes on the name Supergirl

 

[B]

I wouldnt go that far.

The largest contribution to Smallville's suck isn't restrictions or cast, it's the network. The CW. Osteroff. The lack of budget and the mandate on the show's direction to be catered towards a shipper audience.

I think your largely wrong, it doesn't help being on The CW I'll agree with, but when the show was first created The CW didn't even exist. It was a show based on the Superman character & yet because of the movie that gained alot of steam mid series they could use a variety of elements that I'd consider quite key to the Superman character, hense they had to come up with other things & create new characters to help keep the show mulling along.

Had this show been born with no restrictions in place it would have ended about season 5 or 6, but because gradually over time with the failure of the Superman movie various restrictions where lifted on characters (Lois Lane, Perry White, Krypton, Superman name, Superman costume, Superman insignia.. I mean the list goes on & on) & other elements of the Superman character they've took a stab at throwing these characters into the world that had already been created with restrictions in place.. some worked, some didn't.

I agree that because of both the CW/WB networks that the show suffered as well, but ultimately it's biggest problem was the fact that it came around at the time when there was a movie in development which restricted it's use on key elements of the character. I'm not saying there have not been other contributions to the problems, I just feel that the key one(s) have been the restrictions.

The Nolan/Snyder Superman film is in a completely different direction. There won't be any major similarities with SV.

While I've not said there will be major similarites, do we actually know what direction the film is going in? I mean the last idea/rumor I heard tossing around was that the story would be loosely like Birthright..

Not in the slightest.

I didn't say that so..

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

I think your largely wrong, it doesn't help being on The CW I'll agree with, but when the show was first created The CW didn't even exist. It was a show based on the Superman character & yet because of the movie that gained alot of steam mid series they could use a variety of elements that I'd consider quite key to the Superman character, hense they had to come up with other things & create new characters to help keep the show mulling along.

When I said CW, I also meant to include the previous network, The WB. There was a clear focus with this series on the network. The relationship aspects, Clark's love life, are the central focus. On the WB, there was teenage angst and a 'Dawsons Creek' take on the material.

This season, it's more than obvious they're pandering to shippers (as they have been for years), that's why this 'Clois' stuff always gets such a huge central focus. Prior to that it was his drama with Lana.

Had this show been born with no restrictions in place it would have ended about season 5 or 6, but because gradually over time with the failure of the Superman movie various restrictions where lifted on characters (Lois Lane, Perry White, Krypton, Superman name, Superman costume, Superman insignia.. I mean the list goes on & on) & other elements of the Superman character they've took a stab at throwing these characters into the world that had already been created with restrictions in place.. some worked, some didn't.

I have to disagree there, though it may have helped the show to only run that many seasons for the sake of quality. There's no denying it really REALLY dragged out long before it's time. To the point where it stopped becoming a Superman early days story YEARS ago, and more of a DC showcase. To the point where cannon was drastically altered to keep the show afloat and gimmicks introduced; Lois brought in early, their relationship before Superman, living together, engagement,... Supergirl's introduction, etc Essentially they've shoe-horned pretty much everything from Superman's future career, into young Clark's Smallville present....regardless of whether it fits or not, and the overall picture is very convoluted. To the point where Clark is in his mid twenties and still can't fly 'no flights no tights' when everyone else can, and when even a third generation hero like Stargirl is a fully formed superhero...

I agree that because of both the CW/WB networks that the show suffered as well, but ultimately it's biggest problem was the fact that it came around at the time when there was a movie in development which restricted it's use on key elements of the character. I'm not saying there have not been other contributions to the problems, I just feel that the key one(s) have been the restrictions.

Honestly, no. If anything the restrictions only helped Smallville. Think about it... what were the restrictions?

No Lois Lane relationship with Clark? Yeah that would have actually been a good thing, considering it doesn't make much sense in the context of his younger days in Smallville.

No Jimmy Olsen? Yeah. Jimmy is supposed to be way too young to appear during Clark's early days.

Crystal fortress? It was an aesthetic and didn't make a difference one way or the other.

Inability to show the \S/ symbol during the first four seasons? Didn't make a difference. Unless he was in Superboy gear, he wouldn't need to sport the \S/ in highschool anyway.

No Batman or Wonderwoman? Probably for the best after they butchered Green Arrow.

The restrictions barely made a difference. TPTB are really to blame for everything gone awry with Stallvillle.

While I've not said there will be major similarites, do we actually know what direction the film is going in? I mean the last idea/rumor I heard tossing around was that the story would be loosely like Birthright..

Well no, Snyder confirmed it has no major comic basis. The only Birthright similarity we know of so far is the years in Africa, amidst political tension, as a freelance college grad journalist... something SV's Clark never did.


In fact the only distinguishing similarity between Smallville and Birthright is the younger Kents. The Lex/Clark story is lifted directly from a Silverage storyline where they meet as kids, and his hair is burned off in an explosion.

 

[darkzombiemutt]

this thread has already given me a headache.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

People who say Birthright was based off of Smallville should really listen to Waids interview on the subject at one of the comic cons. When a fan posed the question to him he had some harsh words on that subject. But he clearly stated that he did not base birthright on anything having to do with Smallville. And to go a step further the Kent's being young again has more to do with Superman 2000 then anything else. If you see anything from Smallville in the movies it might be someone called Chloe that is about it.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

I REALLY doubt Christopher Nolan, Jonah and Goyer wrote Chloe Sullivan into the script.


I mean.. seriously

 

[Daybreak_st]

Smallville added some interesting inovations to the visual effects of Superman. Just think about Heat vision actually looking like heat or x-ray vision looking like an x-ray. It already influenced the way heat vision was portrayed in Superman Returns. So to assume that it may have some influence on the new film isn't as outlandish as some posters seem to believe.

The other visual that i've always liked was moving at clark speed, now it's not simply a rehash of the matix slow mo effects, it was perfected in this scene from season 2:

[YT]lpjpRYRLhMQ[/YT]

I believe they won some kind of tv vsfx award for it. The scene was from like 2003 or something so obviously the effects would be better now but i'd like to see something along those lines in the new film.

Beyond some visuals, like maybe the look of the farm, or him sporting a red jacket at some point (though i doubt this one), i don't think you'll see any story elements carried over from smallville.

If Lex Luthor is important in the film i could see them borrowing some elements of his character or his dad being named lionel but that's about it.

 

[DrMylesOBoogie]

In terms of casting, I will find it very hard accepting someone else as Superman after Tom Welling. The need to cast someone with the same wow factor I got when I initially saw Welling in the Smallville pilot. And Erica Durance has made a fantastic Lois Lane and been every bit worthy of following Teri Hatcher. The casting needs to be right to get people excited. Routh and Bosworth were a huge contributing factor to SR being the worst cinematic experience of my life.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I REALLY doubt Christopher Nolan, Jonah and Goyer wrote Chloe Sullivan into the script.


I mean.. seriously

Agreed but my point was that she would be the only influence related to Smallville you would ever see in any form outside of Smallville. Anything else is wishful thinking.

 

[KalMart]

Maybe they'll call the town that young Clark grew up in the same name as the TV show.

 

[LL2K2]

This one's my favorite.. Clark is The Blur...while Kara, the same age as him, is a fully formed superheroine, with flight, revealed to the public, with a glasses-wearing dual identity, and now takes on the name Supergirl

What the...? Are you kidding me? I saw that poster in "Icarus" but never noticed that until now...

 

[Frodo]

For me, Michael Rosebum is the definative Lex Luthor. IMO the SV really set a new standard in terms of the portrayal and the writing of Lex's character. My hope is that the Synder film gives us a Lex as complex as Rosenbum's and not another Gene Hackman knock off.

 

[Frodo]

For me, Michael Rosebum is the definative Lex Luthor. IMO the SV really set a new standard in terms of the portrayal and the writing of Lex's character. My hope is that the Synder film gives us a Lex as complex as Rosenbum's and not another Gene Hackman knock off.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

TAS/Postcrisis Lex is the way to go for the Superman film.


I don't think there's anything they should take from Rosenbaum's portrayal. Lex as a young jealous brother type to Clark living in the shadows of his father works in the context of Smallville.


I'd prefer the Luthor in the upcoming film be the self-made corperate tycoon from the Suicide Slums. The brilliant engineer and scientist, who built Lexcorp from the ground up.

 

[SuperAl]

the one thing iwant them to take from Smallville is that Clark Kent isnt a clumsy idiot

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

That wouldn't be from Smallville. He doesn't even have the proper dual identity on SV.

 

[elgaz]

I've watched Smallville religiously since the very first episode. So I'm a fan.

But I don't want any major elements from SV in this new movie. I want my cinematic experience to be entirely different and separate from what I see on TV every week, and I also want to see a fresh new take on the Superman mythos - something exciting.

Smallville does some things very right, and has made some great contributions to the world of Superman. But let's just leave it at that, and let Snyder & Co make their own impact on the Man of Steel.

 

[Micah12345]

I wanted so bad for clark to nail chloe just once. Just put it in her one time. But no he's obsessed with hideous bad actor lana. I gave up around season six and never looked back.

 

[El Payaso]

^^ Superman has always traditionally been that fool. So it's in character.

 

[B]

When I said CW, I also meant to include the previous network, The WB. There was a clear focus with this series on the network. The relationship aspects, Clark's love life, are the central focus. On the WB, there was teenage angst and a 'Dawsons Creek' take on the material.

I'd partially disagree with you, while I agree there was to a certain degree a 'Dawsons Creek' like approach to certain aspects of the material, ultimately it played out pretty much like what you'd expect an origin story revolving around a young Clark Kent. It focused on him struggling with coming to terms of who & what he is.. in early seasons I mean.

This season, it's more than obvious they're pandering to shippers (as they have been for years), that's why this 'Clois' stuff always gets such a huge central focus. Prior to that it was his drama with Lana.

It isn't so much pandering to shippers its more a case of the story needs a love interest & because of the circumstances of the way the show has been done it would be almost impossible to not have them in some form of relationship prior to his glasses & whatnot.

To the point where it stopped becoming a Superman early days story YEARS ago, and more of a DC showcase. To the point where cannon was drastically altered to keep the show afloat and gimmicks introduced; Lois brought in early, their relationship before Superman, living together, engagement,... Supergirl's introduction, etc Essentially they've shoe-horned pretty much everything from Superman's future career, into young Clark's Smallville present....regardless of whether it fits or not, and the overall picture is very convoluted.

In my opinion alot of the introduction of other characters/elements from Superman's future as you put it, fit & have been largely acceptable in my view. With a few alterations I'd take some of them as cannon as well. Particularly alot of the Kryptonian related elements they've introduced like Zod, Doomsday & Brainiac in particular. Doomsday was made to work because of how they'd seemingly given him/it abit of an origin with the Davis Bloom stuff. Dispite the anti-climax, non-fight, the actual arc itself was a good take & it ended very well & fairly in cannon what with it being buried underground.

One of the things that not so much annoys me, but gets me thinking about other Superman origins is how come Clark/Kal-El is able to grow into a fully grown man before all these super-villians & problems start really coming out of the works (& as I said, particularly the majority of Krypyonian ones).

To the point where Clark is in his mid twenties and still can't fly 'no flights no tights' when everyone else can, and when even a third generation hero like Stargirl is a fully formed superhero...

Don't get bogged down in him not being able to fly, in Smallville's story they've I believe given their excuse as to why hes been unable to fly as of yet, in the sense that like most of his other powers, its in his head. Nevermind that all the others have been able to fly, it's meaningless to Clark's reasons for not flying.

Also how's Stargirl a fully formed superhero? Because shes wearing an outfit more traditional to her character?
With all due respect to the Stargirl character, the Superman character is more complex, and in Smallville's Universe that complexity is 2x the usual.

Jeff East's young couldn't fly, he left Smallville at what.. 18? Then he goes to the FOS & leaves as Christopher Reeve's Superman when hes about 28/29.. this incarnation of the character might not have flown till he was 27.

Honestly, no. If anything the restrictions only helped Smallville. Think about it... what were the restrictions?

No Lois Lane relationship with Clark? Yeah that would have actually been a good thing, considering it doesn't make much sense in the context of his younger days in Smallville.

No Jimmy Olsen? Yeah. Jimmy is supposed to be way too young to appear during Clark's early days.

I consider both of these pretty irrelevant, Lois & Clark didn't need to be any any form of romantic relationship in his Smallville days, but her introduction as someone who briefly met/knew Clark as a teenager would have been a nice addition... however they kept Lois around for too long & as a result the cannon had to change to adapt to the fact she'd been around Clark for too long to not, not know he is Superman. They should have brought her in for a handful of episodes, sent her away & only brought her back after Clark had adapted some form of glasses or alter ego.

Jimmy Olsen never needed to be mentioned on the show, this character I mainly blame on the writers. They knew, that they couldn't have the Jimmy Olsen they introduced as the real Jimmy Olsen due to WB's restrictions... they wrote themselves into a hole & made a mess writing him out.

Crystal fortress? It was an aesthetic and didn't make a difference one way or the other.

Just an aesthetic..

Had they been allowed to use the Fortress in early seasons we wouldn't have heard Jor-El talking from a ship, then moving house to the Kawachi Caves then finally to the Fortress.

Also it wasn't limited to just simply the fortress, they could barely even mention Krypton & anything Krypton related in early seasons nevermind actually showing it due to the fact that Superman Returns was very Krypton heavy before the cut, I'd have much rather watched Clark learn about/see Krypton, Jor-El, Lara etc in the Fortress than watch him trying to fight a freak of the week that touches people to steal their body heat!

In my opinion cannon doesn't technically exist, it's all about preference. With that in mind in my cannon, the fortress is a key element to Superman's origin... doesn't have to be like an ice palace, I'd just rather it wasn't some Indian cave..

Inability to show the \S/ symbol during the first four seasons? Didn't make a difference. Unless he was in Superboy gear, he wouldn't need to sport the \S/ in highschool anyway.

Might not seem like much but it kinda messed with the shows continuity & flow, in the few things they could show they used the Kryptonian S which was more like an 8. Fair enough, but then when the 'ban' was lifted they threw in the normal logo in it's place with no sort of explanation on how/what or where it came from. This is more an aesthetic thing than the fortress, but if your doing a Superman origin, you kinda want to be able to have everything in place so you can explain who or what everything is correctly..

No Batman or Wonderwoman? Probably for the best after they butchered Green Arrow.

No Batman or Wonder Woman, fair enough not really relivent to me particularly. Would have been nice to see Clark meet or cross paths with a young Bruce Wayne.

How have they butchered Green Arrow?

The restrictions barely made a difference. TPTB are really to blame for everything gone awry with Stallvillle.

Disagree in the highest possible way in regards to the restrictions barely making a difference.

You can't make a show about the origins of Superman when you can barely mention Krypton.

In my view the 2 single biggest problems for Smallville have been the restrictions around the show & cost/finances.. then a **** network & poor writing/planning.

 

[The Guard]

It always bothered me that they call him "The Blur". Is that from the comics? It's just...stupid. Why not "The Metropolis Marvel"? Or something that doesn't sound...stupid.

BIRTHRIGHT is clearly based on JJ Abrams later abandoned SUPERMAN drafts, not SMALLVILLE.

And SMALLVILLE has its moments. Especially lately. Initially I kicked and screamed about all the timeline shifts and "changes". But I've come to accept most of them, and recognize that they do fit in the world they've created, even if most of them aren't well executed. I think the creators pick and choose a bit too much, and I really think the issues with transitioning from not being allowed to show Superman elements to being allowed have more to do with the subpar writing, conceptualization and and general execution than the powers that be. Super embargo or not, the whole point was that it was a gradual introduction to who he really was.

 

[GeneralZod]

After loving smallville for 9 seasons I think it's a disgrace what this show has become. I hope the new movie is nothing like it

 

[Daybreak_st]

It always bothered me that they call him "The Blur". Is that from the comics? It's just...stupid. Why not "The Metropolis Marvel"? Or something that doesn't sound...stupid.

BIRTHRIGHT is clearly based on JJ Abrams later abandoned SUPERMAN drafts, not SMALLVILLE.

And SMALLVILLE has its moments. Especially lately. Initially I kicked and screamed about all the timeline shifts and "changes". But I've come to accept most of them, and recognize that they do fit in the world they've created, even if most of them aren't well executed. I think the creators pick and choose a bit too much, and I really think the issues with transitioning from not being allowed to show Superman elements to being allowed have more to do with the subpar writing, conceptualization and and general execution than the powers that be. Super embargo or not, the whole point was that it was a gradual introduction to who he really was.

Do you have anything to support the bold statement? I love Birthright and Waid's take on clark kent and i've read plenty of interviews with Waid and i've seen nothing that connects it with Abrams script.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

For me, Michael Rosebum is the definative Lex Luthor. IMO the SV really set a new standard in terms of the portrayal and the writing of Lex's character. My hope is that the Synder film gives us a Lex as complex as Rosenbum's and not another Gene Hackman knock off.

 

[BH/HHH]

I second that