Discussion in 'Marvel's The Avengers' started by BigThor, May 7, 2012.
So why is Loki VS the SHIELD guards included?
Those guards actually fought back, unlike Loki not even throwing one single attack after being attacked by Hulk.
Clearly, people will argue with anything even things that are facts and not opinions.
So The Hulk didn't overcome Loki with blows?
In UFC, when someone gets knocked out in 13 seconds with the first punch thrown, does it get erased from the card? Does it not go into the competitior's win/loss FIGHT record? A short, one-sided fight is still a fight. And Hulk/Loki was arguably the most entertaining FIGHT scene in the film, in spite (or rather, BECAUSE) of its length.
Defensively justify it however you want. You're the one getting precious about the Hulk/Loki fight even getting mentioned, so much so you missed the actual point of my original post, which was in fact a joke working in Loki's "glorious, not long" line from the film.
We can debate whether or not Hulk/Loki is a fight, sure. But it's a debate to be had. And you refusing to include it on the poll, and getting ratty about people even mentioning it, suggests you're wanting to block that debate from even happening, and I don't really understand why.
There's nothing to debate or "justify", there was not "contending" or "physical combat" there was only an assault.
1. Assault : A sudden, violent attack; onslaught: an assault on tradition.
^ This describes what Hulk did to Loki perfectly, you can keep this up if you want but you're proving opinions while I provide facts.
But why was "Thor vs. Iron Man/Captain America" included?
I don't remember such a fight.
All I remember is...
a) Thor vs. Iron Man
b) Thor hitting against Captain America's shield (if Lokis vs. Hulk isn't a fight, then this single punch isn't a fight either)
Captain America "blocked" Thor's attack AFTER throwing his shield at both of them.
That's AFTER those two parties agree too fight and "square off" with other, NOT where one is talking and attacked mid-sentence.
This is hardly an attack. If it were, it would have to be called "Thor vs. Iron Man vs. Captain America", because as you said, Cap threw his shield against Thor and Iron Man.
So I still say, Thor's fight with Captain America consists of one single punch.
Come on now , IM didn't respond to the shield throw while Thor do did so it was still Thor vs Cap.
If you're attacked and you don't respond it's not credited as being a "fight", so Thor was the one who responded therefore it was him vs Cap.
thor vs hulk. I literally had goosebumps watching the fight.
Okay, okay, let's not get too nitpicky...
But honestly, while I don't think that Hulk vs. Loki was the best "fight" (I voted for Hulk vs. Thor), I'd still have included it in the poll. If someone wants to vote for it, let them. I understand your reasons why you didn't include it, but nevertheless it's a little bit subjective and I also understand the people who want to have it in the poll.
But then again, it isn't that much important. At least, not for me.
It's not subject at all, it's based on the actual definition of the word which is a fact not opinion.
To me, Hulk vs Loki was my favourite fight scene, there were blows thrown, someone won and someone lost, so to me it was a fight, and I loved it.
Hulk vs Thor would have top but it was too short and cut away from too much. Thor vs Iron Man was great, and I really enjoyed Cap vs Loki as well, thought it was really well done.
It just seems strange that you're doing an awful lot of bending backwards and seeking out dictionary definitions to avoid including a fight scene in a poll of fight scenes.
There was blows thrown by "one" person with no response or attack from the other person, that my friend is called "assault".
Hulk didn't "win" anything against Loki, he merely attacked him mid-sentence and put him out of commission.
I'm a very factual person, it's not bending backwards at all since it takes like 5 seconds to look up a definition.
Exactly. I wasn't particularly bothered or passionate on the subject (I'd say BigThor's snarky attitude about it are what prompted my more detailed replies rather than any inherent outrage at the exclusion itself), but whether or not it's a long fight or an even fight or a proper fight, or whether you think it technically fits the dictionary definition of "assault" or "attack" rather than "fight", if you're making a poll you should at least make voting for it an option rather than imposing your personal stance on everyone else.
Should we make a new poll for the best "assault scenes" in the film, then? Would Loki VS the SHIELD agents be more eligible for "best assault" than "best fight"? Or does Loki VS the SHIELD agents count more as a fight because the agents at some points started to throw a punch before being effortlessly cut down in seconds by Loki? Does the intention to fight back make it a fight, then? How do we know that Loki didn't intend to throw a punch at Hulk?
They were also shooting Loki multiple times, as a matter of fact they pulled out their guns on him before he even attacked.
So that was definately more of a fight than assault, Loki also did not intend to throw a punch at the Hulk as evidence by his whimper.
I posted facts as in actual definitions NOT personal opinions or what I "think", if anyone is imposing a personal stance it's you.
As far the "snarky" comment, you can't be serious...
Well, actually, you posted dictionary definitions as facts, and when I demonstrated how Hulk/Loki could be defined as a fight based on the very dictionary definitions you posted, you were all like, "Umm... ummm....no, you see, the part of the definition that's important is the "physical combat" part, so if that's not there, it doesn't count...."
(Hmmm.... if the "physical combat" part is essential, I guess we can disqualify the gunplay in Loki VS SHIELD....)
You say you're dealing only with facts, but then you cherrypick what aspects of those facts are most important, therefore imposing your opinions on them.
I'm fully aware this is a ridiculous argument we're having, by the way. Not quite on the level of the "Did The Joker say six or ten?" debates of 2008, but up there...
Hulk vs Thor had to be the highlight for me in terms of fights. This is the stuff of fanboy legends. I must have participated in a million arguments about it and have probably wasted a three or four of weeks of my life that could have been spent...doing anything else really, fighting with people online over how it would go down. I still cant quite believe I saw it on the bigscreen. And as brief as it was it was done very, very well. I cant really fault it at all. Will get many rewatches from me in the future.
That said, for pure fun, in some ways I prefer the Thor vs Iron Man fight. maybe because I'm a little less invested in the outcome and because I was surprised it was such a dust-up. Thor coming back angrier and angrier, armour buckling etc. Kinda feel like it was lacking a one-liner in the end after they are all knocked down by Thors blow (hilarious reading how some effects guy suggested to Whedon that at this point Iron Man should say "I'm too old for this ****" and Joss brutally shot him down) but still...
Hulk vs Loki - fight or not, my favourite scene in the whole film. Life-changing
I didn't cherry pick anything, those agents also physically attacked Loki when he engaged them in close combat. Definitions are facts my friend and nothing else, want me to post the definition for physicall combat?
Combat - A purposeful violent conflict meant to establish dominance over the opposition, or to kill the opposition, or drive the opposition away from a location where it is not wanted or needed.
The term combat (French for fight) typically refers to armed conflict between military forces in warfare, whereas the more general term "fighting" can refer to any violent conflict between individuals or nations. Combat violence can be unilateral, whereas fighting implies at least a defensive reaction. <--- Point proven
Loki had the oppurtunity to throw some blows but chose to speak instead, his mistake, in my eyes it was a fight and the most enjoyable one at that.
You're still going to a lot of effort to establish why a clearly marked (and popular) "fight scene" is not actually a fight. But to play it your way...
"A purposeful violent conflict" - There was a conflict between Hulk and Loki, and violence was involved.
"meant to establish dominance over the possition...." - Hulk established dominance over Loki.
"The term combat (French for fight) typically refers to armed conflict between military forces in warfare..." - Damn, now we need to create a THIRD poll, one for the fights, one for the assaults, and one for combat that we can include Loki VS SHIELD in....
"the more general term 'fighting' can refer to any violent conflict between individuals" - such as the Hulk/Loki confrontation, which we've already established had conflict, and was violent.
"fighting implies at least a defensive reaction" - you could call Loki's "STOP!" a defensive reaction, if we're being nitpicky about dictionary definitions here.
I loved Hulk VS Thor too. In particular, that crushing hammer uppercut Thor throws at Hulk. Made me wince both times I saw the film.