The Avengers What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

[Quasimod0]

He stood toe to toe with Iron Man and Captain America before he ALLOWED HIMSELF to be captured. He indescriminately killed innocent people. He used mind control to make people do evil murderous things. He conspired with an alien race and brought them to Earth to enslave and kill humans (succeeding in killing possibly thousands of people in the melee that ensured).......and you don't think he was someone to be feared?

 

[TTFN]

He stood toe to toe with Iron Man and Captain America before he ALLOWED HIMSELF to be captured. He indescriminately killed innocent people. He used mind control to make people do evil murderous things. He conspired with an alien race and brought them to Earth to enslave and kill humans (succeeding in killing possibly thousands of people in the melee that ensured).......and you don't think he was someone to be feared?

No, I don't buy it. Maybe if TH played him more ruthless? I don't know why it fell flat but it did. Do you think I wanted it to???? I never in a million years thought I would leave the theater thinking they dropped the ball using Loki.

The only time I felt him actually *be* evil was when he was falling for BW's trick and he was describing what he would have Barton do to her. After that she was all ok, thanks and then it was back to him being pathetic. Everything else was missing that something to make me think wow...this guy means business and I hope they beat him.

 

[The Guard]

Meh, I have to disagree. The movie isn't perfect, but I liked the fact that you could see that Loki, no matter how godlike, had let desperation drive him into bargaining with a mysterious power, and that he was in over his head.

Except that you couldn't see that. It wasn't in the movie. There was nothing about Loki being so desperate that he turned to the Chitauri...we're just shown that he turned to the Chitauri. His motivation is apparently just power, not desperation. He wasn't "In over his head" any more than any supervillain who fails to destroy/rule something is.

My real gripe is that they should have had one scene, or line, where the aliens explicitly state that they are using Loki to get access to a new world to plunder, and are going to toss him onto the garbage heap as soon as they take over. It certainly doesn't make sense that they would need him once they come through the gate and can take the tesseract for themselves.

No it doesn't. And that's part of the reason why the villains were just...thin.

I liked that Loki was evil, but also clearly an insecure and desperate agent of a greater evil that even he feared. It made him a relatable villain without 'humanizing' him too much.

He didn't seem all that that insecure or desperate other than his single scene with Thor, where he seemed angry more than the other two things.

That said, I doubt Joss would treat other villains in the same way. Loki may not be the uber-badass in the film as some imagined him, but he is emotionally and tactically consistent with the character from the comics. Joss nailed the characterizations in this film and also proven that he knows what comics fans want to see. There's no way he'd screw up Doom, Thanos, or the Skull.

Loki is "vaguely evil" in the comics?

He tried to rule Asgard, but couldn't. He can't even live peacefully there anymore because he is an enemy of the state. So, he chooses Earth. The place he thinks has corrupted his brother and the place that holds the woman he loves. Very fitting psychologically.

Not really. There were very clear reasons for Loki wanting to be a king in THOR. Character based reasons. Once he realized what he'd done, he didn't even apparently care if he lived or not. Without a good reason for him still wanting to rule in THE AVENGERS, he comes across as just another evil B movie villain. The movie presents it as "I just want somewhere to rule". Why? Two characters, Thor and Iron Man, call him on it.

 

[Xeno]

I can't believe this thread has reached 37 pages. Not that I've read them. As long as people are having fun in here, that's all that counts.


Carry on!

 

[The Morningstar]

It was clear why he wanted to rule. Validation. Not just from others, but from himself. He didn't just want to prove to his brother and father, he wanted to prove to himself, convince himself that he could do it. He's one of those people who will lie to even themselves, to the point where eventually they are so deluded they believe their own lies. We've all known people like this in the real world. He failed in Asgard, so he came to Earth to rule because he sees humans as beneath him. His anger is born out of insecurity, this is very clear.

You have to consider this is a guy who has had no interaction with humanity probably since the stone ages. Where... he and his brother and his father were worshipped as Gods.

He was probably expecting the same kind of treatment. Well, he was wrong. He was in over his head and his encounter with Hulk was the moment where he fully realised that fact.

I mean what, do you want this **** spoon fed to you? Just connect the dots. All this stuff is in the movie, is in Hiddleston's portrayal. From his facial expressions to his tone of voice. From sadistic smirking to worried frowns. Even his scream of "KNEEL!" in Germany had an air of desperation about it. He sounded like a kid having a tantrum.

 

[TomPiltoff]

No, I don't buy it. Maybe if TH played him more ruthless? I don't know why it fell flat but it did. Do you think I wanted it to???? I never in a million years thought I would leave the theater thinking they dropped the ball using Loki.

The only time I felt him actually *be* evil was when he was falling for BW's trick and he was describing what he would have Barton do to her. After that she was all ok, thanks and then it was back to him being pathetic. Everything else was missing that something to make me think wow...this guy means business and I hope they beat him.

So do you think it's an issue with the acting? When you say he only "felt" him be evil once, do you mean Hiddleston wasn't selling it for you?

Because, on paper, you gotta admit there's a pretty good laundry list of evil. Like someone just said, you've got eye gouging, the scene with Widow, throwing Tony Stark off a skyscraper.

But then again, what I loved about Loki is that he isn't completely evil. When he's going on about humans needing to be ruled, it comes across like he really believes it and is in a way doing what he feels is right.

It was clear why he wanted to rule. Validation. He failed in Asgard, so he came to Earth to rule because he sees humans as beneath him.

That's exactly right. Dude grew up thinking he was a prince, found out he was adopted, then finds out he's still a prince, but from a race of monsters. I can see how that life experience might lead to a person thinking "I'm meant for big things, I was born to be a ruler, and apparently my lineage tells me there's nothing wrong with getting my hands dirty in the process."

 

[TTFN]

So do you think it's an issue with the acting? When you say he only "felt" him be evil once, do you mean Hiddleston wasn't selling it for you?

Because, on paper, you gotta admit there's a pretty good laundry list of evil. Like someone just said, you've got eye gouging, the scene with Widow, throwing Tony Stark off a skyscraper.

But then again, what I loved about Loki is that he isn't completely evil. When he's going on about humans needing to be ruled, it comes across like he really believes it and is in a way doing what he feels is right.


That's exactly right. Dude grew up thinking he was a prince, found out he was adopted, then finds out he's still a prince, but from a race of monsters. I can see how that life experience might lead to a person thinking "I'm meant for big things, I was born to be a ruler, and apparently my lineage tells me there's nothing wrong with getting my hands dirty in the process."

Maybe? I don't really know to be honest which sounds rather silly because he's such a great actor. You're right that on paper, he did some pretty heinous things but I just never felt onscreen he was a good villain. Maybe it was the script? Maybe it was both. I don't even feel the need to rewatch it to find out and that saddens me. I've seen most of these movies an embarrassing amount of times. LOL

 

[The Morningstar]

I think this is one of those films where repeat viewings can make it better. There is little things to pick up on that you might have missed the first time around.

Not suggesting you got out and spend money to watch it again if you don't want to. Just saying keep that in mind for when it comes out on DVD/Blu Ray.

 

[Sundancer]

Stan's cameo should have been him being interviewed saying "I wish I could have made such a team!"


Deadpool should have appeared after the credits to tell Loki that he's really just in a movie.

 

[samsnee]

How the heck did Banner know where to find everyone right before the big fight?

 

[TomPiltoff]

All the explosions, probably.

 

[Golgo-13]

How the heck did Banner know where to find everyone right before the big fight?

Lol, that's exactly what i said.

My only nitpick about the film right now, is Hulks voice..it sounded EXACTLY like Ruffalos.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Well Thor wasn't really even fighting Hulk that hard for most of the fight due to trying to reason with Banner.

True, but I still wanted something more heavy-hitting. Oh well, I was still happy with it.

Why didn't Mjolnir return to Thor's hand when he held it out in that cornfield? I think it was supposed to mean something but I wasn't sure.

 

[TomPiltoff]

Why didn't Mjolnir return to Thor's hand when he held it out in that cornfield? I think it was supposed to mean something but I wasn't sure.

Yeah that was weird. At first it seemed like maybe something was up where it wasn't coming. Then I thought maybe it will be something cool like he left it on the ground and we'd see some shot of it whizzing in his direction a million miles an hour or something.

As it is, it just kind of took a second.

 

[C. Lee]

How the heck did Banner know where to find everyone right before the big fight?

The fight was centered around STARK TOWER.

My only nitpick about the film right now, is Hulks voice..it sounded EXACTLY like Ruffalos.

That's funny, because I read Lou Ferigno did it.

 

[jaqua99]

Run Loki, RUN!



Sure if I believed he was capable. That's where it falls short for me. Hulk said it best. He came across as "puny" not powerful or one to be feared. At least to me. shrugs

That was generally my thoughts. The beginning atleast got it right. But once he started messing with the avengers, the menace got thrown aside for kicks

 

[jaqua99]

No, I don't buy it. Maybe if TH played him more ruthless? I don't know why it fell flat but it did. Do you think I wanted it to???? I never in a million years thought I would leave the theater thinking they dropped the ball using Loki.

The only time I felt him actually *be* evil was when he was falling for BW's trick and he was describing what he would have Barton do to her. After that she was all ok, thanks and then it was back to him being pathetic. Everything else was missing that something to make me think wow...this guy means business and I hope they beat him.

exactly.

 

[jaqua99]

Maybe? I don't really know to be honest which sounds rather silly because he's such a great actor. You're right that on paper, he did some pretty heinous things but I just never felt onscreen he was a good villain. Maybe it was the script? Maybe it was both. I don't even feel the need to rewatch it to find out and that saddens me. I've seen most of these movies an embarrassing amount of times. LOL

No. Ive said so many times what it was. It was taking away the menacing things for kicks. The ripping into widow part, only to look dumb at her hand, cause she tricked the god of trickery (no joss, don't do that). Not to mention, clearly, it should have effected her, because she got upset about clint being compromised. and loki catching hawkeye's arrow. It was great. Intimidating, till it blew up in his face. Those two scenes are what damaged it for me. Thats it. Those were two potentially intimidating scenes for Loki, which were thrown away for kicks.

other than that though, i give the movie a 9.8/10. My now favorite movie.

The only reason why it isn't a huge deal with Loki is because this movie isn't about the Avengers vs a villian. Its about the forming of a the team, BECAUSE of the villian. That being said, next villian, hopefully ultron, should be good.


Yes, I am praying to every single god that Thanos is saved for the 3rd movie

 

[BestGirl]

No. Ive said so many times what it was. It was taking away the menacing things for kicks. The ripping into widow part, only to look dumb at her hand, cause she tricked the god of trickery (no joss, don't do that). Not to mention, clearly, it should have effected her, because she got upset about clint being compromised. and loki catching hawkeye's arrow. It was great. Intimidating, till it blew up in his face. Those two scenes are what damaged it for me. Thats it. Those were two potentially intimidating scenes for Loki, which were thrown away for kicks.

other than that though, i give the movie a 9.8/10. My now favorite movie.

The only reason why it isn't a huge deal with Loki is because this movie isn't about the Avengers vs a villian. Its about the forming of a the team, BECAUSE of the villian. That being said, next villian, hopefully ultron, should be good.


Yes, I am praying to every single god that Thanos is saved for the 3rd movie

There was something a tad bit pathetic about Loki at times but it's clear that's what Whedon and Hiddleston intended. He was a pawn of the Chitauri anyway so they were the real big bads of the movie. Besides, the movie Thor demonstrated that the Asgardians are far from infallible both physically and mentally. It's not that shocking that BW and HE were able to trick him.

 

[Dark Raven]

Here are my picks:

1. Hulk having very few lines

2. Hulk looking fake at times and still rubbery

3. Certain takes that were used instead of the ones in the trailer - I preferred Stark's delivery of the Billionare Playboy Philanthropist in the trailer to the final movie.

4. Certain scenes/ lines being cut that we saw in the trailer.
5. The way the fight with Cap and Thor fighting side by side was edited compared to the original filmed footage.

6. I wish also that there was a final showdown between Loki taking on all the Avengers instead of him just surrendering easily in the Stark tower. Or at least if he was cornered by all of them, it should've been in the street not indoors, with Loki lying on the ground. I would've preferred a fight where they all team to take him down similar to either the FF taking on Doom at the end of the first FF movie or the way the main characters in Heroes team up to defeat Sylar in the 1st season finale of Heroes.

7. I also wish that Iron Man and THor had some scenes flying side by side in battle.

8. I didn't think the score for the Avengers was memorable enough. Cap's theme was better and more iconic. Silvestri needed to do a really epic theme we could all be humming as we walked out of the theatre.

 

[jaqua99]

There was something a tad bit pathetic about Loki at times but it's clear that's what Whedon and Hiddleston intended. He was a pawn of the Chitauri anyway so they were the real big bads of the movie. Besides, the movie Thor demonstrated that the Asgardians are far from infallible both physically and mentally. It's not that shocking that BW and HE were able to trick him.

Well, no, Loki was able to trick thor into going to jotenheim, and to trick the king of the frost giants into his own death. So. Loki getting tricked by BW is excessive. However Loki getting manipulated by Thanos is not.

 

[TomPiltoff]

No. Ive said so many times what it was. It was taking away the menacing things for kicks. The ripping into widow part, only to look dumb at her hand, cause she tricked the god of trickery (no joss, don't do that). Not to mention, clearly, it should have effected her, because she got upset about clint being compromised. and loki catching hawkeye's arrow. It was great. Intimidating, till it blew up in his face. Those two scenes are what damaged it for me. Thats it. Those were two potentially intimidating scenes for Loki, which were thrown away for kicks.

Interesting. Your reasons for disliking those scenes are exactly why I love them - I feel like they're both great ways of allowing the agents to be effective, formidable characters without forgetting for a second that they're dealing with super beings.

I think it's really cool that Black Widow is just a damn good spy and was able to string Loki along. I don't feel that it takes away from Loki. He still comes across like a vicious sociopath, doesn't matter whether or not he gets to her.

And they didn't make Loki some twerp who gets shot in the eye by some dude with a bow and arrow, he saw the whole thing coming. But again, a cool situation to show a deadly SHIELD op working with what they have effectively.

 

[BestGirl]

Well, no, Loki was able to trick thor into going to jotenheim, and to trick the king of the frost giants into his own death. So. Loki getting tricked by BW is excessive. However Loki getting manipulated by Thanos is not.

But again, there isn't anything to suggest that Loki would be infallible, and those previous, successful schemes you mentioned were against other immortal beings. He probably just underestimated what humans like BW and HE were capable of.

 

[Hotwire]

How the heck did Banner know where to find everyone right before the big fight?

Right before everything went down on the helicarrier, their program located the cube. He checked the monitor and saw it's location. Stark noticed this. That's why he kept expecting Banner to show up.

 

[TTFN]

Well, no, Loki was able to trick thor into going to jotenheim, and to trick the king of the frost giants into his own death. So. Loki getting tricked by BW is excessive. However Loki getting manipulated by Thanos is not.

You think it was just in the name of kicks? I'm not convinced it was intentional although it could've been. I can't think of a good reason to make Loki a poor excuse for a villain even with the movie being about the team coming together.