What ruins a superhero movie?

JClive2007

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What do you think ruins a superhero movie and or what do you think has more of impact on a superhero movie's success movie reviewers or fans of word of mouth?
 
the movie being too different from the books
 
Sam Raimi ? Just kidding, a bad script I think, to start with.
 
Not treating the source material with the respect it deserves.
 
Random jazz dances

Trying to cram a million characters into 2 hours
 
1.Trying to interject too much comedy into a superhero film (Superman 3, for example)!!!

2. Bad casting choices (for example, Jessica Alba as the Invisible Woman, and Halle Berry as Storm, since she didn't maintain her Kenyan accent in X2, and X3)!!!
 
JClive2007 said:
What do you think has more of an impact on a superhero movie's success: movie reviewers, fans, or word of mouth?
In my experience, many critics fall into the unfortunate habit of being way too hrash on a lot of pictures. On the other hand, I've also read reviews which seem way too lenient in some respects. That's why I generally don't trust a lot of critics: their reviews are often shaped more by personal opinion than professional expertise, and that can be more of a detriment at times, depending on the reviewer.

3dman27 said:
the movie being too different from the books
While it's certainly true that most departures from the source material have yielded disastrous results, there's also been cases where it worked for the better. "The Mask" bore little resemblance to the comics in its final form, yet it's widely considered one of the best films from Jim Carrey's early career. It's also notable for being the very first on-screen role for Cameron Diaz, who was a professional model before playing Tina Carlyle.

Mistress Kizuna said:
Not treating the source material with the respect it deserves.
My biggest beef with this situation is when a filmmaker completely ignores the elements which made the original book such a success. It's one thing to make a film based o the "spirit" or "essence" of a character, but to ignore those attributes completely insults the fans. I haven't seen the "Hitman" movie, but from what I've heard it's nothing like the games, instead being filled with tons of blood and sex that the games avoided.

SalaciousVC said:
Trying to cram a million characters into 2 hours
In recent years, I think both "X3" and "Spider-Man 3" fell victim to this, the former likely more so. Films which explore many characters at once need the appropriate amount of time to do it, "Lord of the Rings" being a prime example.

Dr.Detroit75 said:
Trying to interject too much comedy into a superhero film...bad casting choices
If the source material is more serious than funny, then the film can greatly suffer if it's taken the opposite way...and vice versa. As for casting, there's very few instances where I've been against a superhero casting choice. Jessica Alba was watchable as Sue in the original "Fantastic Four", but her performance in the sequel was not for the better. She came off as manipulative and rather condescending, with way too fierce a feminist streak. Her passive-agressive crap made me very uncomfortable. Similarly, I don't think Ray Stevenson is a particularly good choice for the Punisher; he seems too dark from the trailer, even for a character of that nature.
 
In my experience, many critics fall into the unfortunate habit of being way too hrash on a lot of pictures. On the other hand, I've also read reviews which seem way too lenient in some respects. That's why I generally don't trust a lot of critics: their reviews are often shaped more by personal opinion than professional expertise, and that can be more of a detriment at times, depending on the reviewer.

While it's certainly true that most departures from the source material have yielded disastrous results, there's also been cases where it worked for the better. "The Mask" bore little resemblance to the comics in its final form, yet it's widely considered one of the best films from Jim Carrey's early career. It's also notable for being the very first on-screen role for Cameron Diaz, who was a professional model before playing Tina Carlyle.

My biggest beef with this situation is when a filmmaker completely ignores the elements which made the original book such a success. It's one thing to make a film based o the "spirit" or "essence" of a character, but to ignore those attributes completely insults the fans. I haven't seen the "Hitman" movie, but from what I've heard it's nothing like the games, instead being filled with tons of blood and sex that the games avoided.

In recent years, I think both "X3" and "Spider-Man 3" fell victim to this, the former likely more so. Films which explore many characters at once need the appropriate amount of time to do it, "Lord of the Rings" being a prime example.

If the source material is more serious than funny, then the film can greatly suffer if it's taken the opposite way...and vice versa. As for casting, there's very few instances where I've been against a superhero casting choice. Jessica Alba was watchable as Sue in the original "Fantastic Four", but her performance in the sequel was not for the better. She came off as manipulative and rather condescending, with way too fierce a feminist streak. Her passive-agressive crap made me very uncomfortable. Similarly, I don't think Ray Stevenson is a particularly good choice for the Punisher; he seems too dark from the trailer, even for a character of that nature.

I have to agree with you on a lot of this.
 
A few things have already been mentioned, like trying to fit too much into one movie, or bad casting, or not respecting the source material, or not sticking close enough to the source material,
but I also think that the actors can sometimes not take the job seriously enough.
Treating their character too one dimensionally or not seriously enough because its just a comic book movie.
It seems like, in some instances, the it thing for actors to do now is a comic book based movie.
 
Artistsean said:
I also think that the actors can sometimes not take the job seriously enough, treating their character too one dimensionally...because its just a comic book movie.
I thought the "Elektra" spinoff suffered that kind of fate. I don't know whether it was the writing, acting, or directing, but Jennifer's role came off as way too melodramatic, especially when compared to her role in the director's cut of "Daredevil".

It seems like, in some instances, the "it thing" for actors to do now is a comic-book-based movie.
That's not only true for actors, either. One of the big reasons why studios started doing comic films in the first place was because the stories have already ben told over decades, so it relieves much of the pressure for them to create something entirely new. Thus, filmmakers often find themselves with a certain peace, knowing that whatever comes of the film, some diehard fan out there will likely embrace it. But in more recent times, the studios and crews have become increasingly aware of their duty to honor the fanbase through these pictures, rather than exploiting them...and as a result, we now have many more good films based on comics than bad ones.
 
The same thing that ruins superhero comic book... Disobeying the essence of the characters, ignoring what makes them tick, and making them do things they would never do.... That and dancing! Superhero's dont dance!
 
Wesley Dodds said:
Superheroes don't dance!
What about literary heroes like Robin Hood, or swordsmen like the Jedi? It's often been said that dancing and weaponry were connected, where anyone who could do one could easily adapt to the other. Also, some might see flight as a sort of "dance" where superheroes are concerned.
 
What about literary heroes like Robin Hood, or swordsmen like the Jedi? It's often been said that dancing and weaponry were connected, where anyone who could do one could easily adapt to the other. Also, some might see flight as a sort of "dance" where superheroes are concerned.

Somehow, i dont think this is what was going through Peter Parker's mind when he burst into a 50 SECOND LONG direct-to-camera Saturday Night Fever dance routine... Not one my happier cinema experiences..
 
The only things that ruin superhero movies are the exact same things that ruin every other kind of movie: Bad acting, bad writing, bad directing, bad editing, or some combination of the above. None of the examples given so far (random jazz sequences, a lot of characters/villains, a lot of comedy, being different from the books) are examples of things that ruin any kind of movie, superhero or otherwise. They're examples of things that were executed very poorly, and in a way that was very hard too ignore. But they're a symptom of one of the problems I mentioned. Jazz sequences aren't bad. Hell, I love them when they're done well. And for a character like Spider-Man, who is a blend of drama and comedy a good deal of the time, it could be a great, fun scene that enriches a film. It was just done very poorly in SM3. Nolan's Batman films have a **** ton of villains in them. The Dark Knight has four named villains from the comics that I can think of, and Begins has more than that. Comedy falls under what I said for the Jazz thing, and as for the being different, the only problem I can see is it being so different that there was no point in using the name of the comic other than making more money. And even that doesn't mean it's a bad movie, it just means the reason for calling it what it's called is stupid. All in all, as long as it retains the same themes and overall similar characterizations, they can make it incredibly different and it could still be a good movie.

The only thing already said that I agree with is having respect for the source material, which is different than sticking closely to the books. Having respect means that you stick to what the comic is about, it's themes and the ideas that the creators tried to convey. Which is more important, I think, than getting the details right.
 
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Somehow, i dont think this is what was going through Peter Parker's mind when he burst into a 50 SECOND LONG direct-to-camera Saturday Night Fever dance routine... Not one my happier cinema experiences..
While I admit that scene from "Spider-Man 3" was rather overdone, I think Sam Raimi had the right inention for it. The dancing was meant to reflect how far Peter would actually go to hurt MJ, under the symbiote's influence. The "street dancing" was definitely overkill, though.
 
I think the whole street dancing stuff was meant to break up the tension.
 
George Clooney.

Nipples on guys outfits.

Director changes.

Zak Penn.

Bad villains.

Reinventing the character(s).
 
WeaponXProject said:
Reinventing the character(s).
This one can easily go either way, because characters are always adapted from different stories in the books, and those arcs span anywhere from 40-70 years of publication history. For example, I doubt we'll ever see a live-action Wolverine who's under 6 feet, with Schwarzenegger's muscles and a blue/yellow spandex outfit. It works fine on the illustrated page, but would almost certainly be a disaster on film. Studios, directors, writers, actors, and film crews can do their best to retain certain aspects, but no character (comic or otherwise) is ever translated from the source material completely.
 
Oh, come on. Arnold was probably the best part of that movie. Despite being forced to say **** lines with **** directing, he actually gave a pretty good performance.
 
Honestly, that is way too broad a question, because each superhero book and character has their own brand of comedy, camp nature, wink-wink/4th wall type stuff at some point. It just depends on how it's executed, like was mentioned earlier.
 
Pretty much no repect for the source material, a studio who is only in it for the money and doesn't care how it's done, a director who doesn't understand the root or the appeal of the character and goes off to do the wrong direction. A horrible script, actors who don't care about their character or is only cast on popularity.
 
An awful script. Oh, and Tom Rothman. Probably Rothman first, then the awful screenplay.
 
Yeah, Rothman too.

What if God was a tremendous fanboy and has seen what Rothman has done?
 

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