What should Gunn do with Batman?

[Invader Joker]

So the way I see it, the DCU doesn't really have that many good options when it comes to Batman, especially if they want a "cohesive universe" that replicates the MCU as Zaslav himself has said he wants.
Here's their options, going from what I perceive to be their best to their worst:
1. Bring Battinson into the DCU after Flashpoint.
PROS:
-They get to have one singular, definitive Batman for at least the next ten years, just like how the MCU has one singular definitive version of their characters. In my opinion, this alone is gigantic, since this mean the general audience will have one Batman they'll get more and more attached to via solo films, spin-offs and eventual Justice League crossover movies making any appearance from him increasingly valuable. Ever wondered how the MCU managed to transform a character like Iron Man from a C-lister to an A-lister worth billions of dollars? This is why. Only in their case Batman might get even bigger because he's already starting off an A-lister in his own way.
-The DCU gets to garner brand reputation from Reeves Batman projects, which again, I also think is highly valuable since the DCEU so far has had a gigantic quality reputation problem.
-A creative like Matt Reeves would be at the helm of whatever is done with Batman going forward, which I think it's a good thing, since it'd ensure that the character doesn't get oversaturated and devalued with pointless cameos all over the place.
CONS:
-This posibility is probably the least likely of them all because it completely depends on the premise of Reeves agreeing to it, which he most likely won't.
-It kinda limits what other creatives in the DCU are able to do with Batman and Batman characters, since they'd all fall under Reeves jurisdiction. Margot's Harley Quinn for example is either gone or rebooted.
-Everything in regards to Batman's history with the other superheroes would have to start from scratch.
2. Kill Batman off in the DCU after Flashpoint. There is no Batman in the DCU.
PROS:
-This might be the most controversial option on the list at first glance and I can understand if people don't agree to it, but I feel the positive for this is also gigantic, because again, Batman's character doesn't get devalued and oversaturated with cameos to a wider universe and instead everything Batman related falls on Reeves hands on a separate universe.
-With Batman gone there's more space to explore other types of characters. Maybe even the Bat-Family in the DCU picking up his mantle.
CONS:
-It's obvious. The DCU doesn't have a Batman, and yes, that'd kinda feel wrong if the idea is to make a definitive DC Universe.
3. Recast Affleck. Bring in a new actor to play DCU Batman.
PROS
-They won't have to do as many retcons to the new DCU while at the same time having more freedom to make a new take on Batman.
- You get a new Batman actor that has absolutely no previous baggage to him.
- You get the opportunity to get a new Batman actor that doesn't have a history of being tired of the role
CONS:
-The audience has no connection whatsoever to this new Batman.
-You still risk devaluing the character since you'd have a version that has the sole purpose of being cameo man and a supporting character while Pattinson gets his own solo films and spin offs.
4. Keep Affleck.
PROS:
-They won't have to do as many retcons to the new DCU.
-They have a Batman that's already recognizable to the audience and liked enough by a chunk of it.
-The foundation for this Batman's dynamics with the rest of the League are already established.
CONS:
-Affleck is already tired of the character and has made that clear multiple times. I don't think he'd be too thrilled about the idea of coming back as Batman to be second-fiddle to Robert's Batman (since make no mistake, I genuinely think the audience would look at a DCU Batman as second-tier compared to the one getting his own Batverse and own movies)
-An annoying army of fans that will beg for a stand-alone Batfleck movie that will never come to be.
-Kinda keeps you stuck in the past.
- Risk devaluing the character.

5. Replace Affleck with Keaton.
PROS:
-The audience gets a version of the character they know.
-They don't have to reshoot The Flash ending
-Since it's an old Batman it'd be extremely distinct from Pattinson.
CONS:
-The thought of Keaton's Batman interacting with Cavill's Superman and Gal's WW is extremely, extremely bizarre. His take on Batman was way too idiosyncratic and married to Burton's own take on Gotham to suddenly imagine him hanging out with more mainstream and modern versions of the character. It completely changes the vibe of the Trinity.
-Keaton is old. Is a 10 year plan really that viable when by the end of it he'll be 80?
-This might be my hottest take yet but I don't think modern audiences care about him anymore, even the nostalgia is not in the magnitude of people like Maguire and Garfield. DC Fandome 2020 released a whole teaser with a voice over from him and a tease of him and it got completely eclipsed by The Batman. Even the first teaser of No Way Home that only revealed Molina's Otto caused a bigger impact than Keaton's reveal in The Flash teaser. And after The Flash the novelty of him will wear off even more, especially since again, he won't have the Burton idiosyncracy that made him a great version of the character in the first place.
- The character still gets oversaturated.
- The DCU would have to get completely retconned in ways that are frankly bizarre. So this means that the Burton films happened there? What happens with Margot's Harley? It's too strange.

 

[psylockolussus]

You know these questions wouldn't eXist if WB didn't make a Batman movie set outside of DCEU when DCEU is still alive and DCEU still have an active Batman...

A mess.

 

[Filmfreak]

And The Batman wouldn't be as successful if it had the baggage of a shared universe which limits a filmmaker's creative input and dictates the overall arc and tone the character follows.

I'd keep Affleck. I never cared for this Batman but since Pattinson is the main guy now I'm ok with him being around as a secondary one. A Keaton at his 70s should only be there in limited capacity, not as the face of the dark knight for their main movie universe, Pattinson should be his own thing, away from those messy films and I don't think anybody wants and expects yet another actor wearing the cowl when so many exist at the same time.

 

[Mani-Man]

Like in General or specific The Batman?

Either way, let Reeves do his own thing without trying to tie it into any shared universe.
Let it stand on his own.

Other than that, my ideas for Batman going forward are way too much.

I would next to Reeves universe, build a new one less grounded that fits into a new shared universe plan, i would see if Burton would return for at least his third movie, would release schumachers initial version of Forever and if he wants to, let Affleck do his Batman.

Would be my rough ideas going forward with Batman specificly..

 

[moviedoors]

Build a fortress around Matt Reeves and let him do whatever the **** he wants.

 

[psylockolussus]

And The Batman wouldn't be as successful if it had the baggage of a shared universe which limits a filmmaker's creative input and dictates the overall arc and tone the character follows.

I'd keep Affleck. I never cared for this Batman but since Pattinson is the main guy now I'm ok with him being around as a secondary one. A Keaton at his 70s should only be there in limited capacity, not as the face of the dark knight for their main movie universe, Pattinson should be his own thing, away from those messy films and I don't think anybody wants and expects yet another actor wearing the cowl when so many exist at the same time.

A successful DCEU Batman would have helped other DCEU movies though.

Unlike a non DCEU Batman movie.

Anyway, it looked like WB gave up on Batfleck solo movies despite letting him return for The Flash.

It is over all the place.

 

[Babillygunn]

If I had my wish, there would be no forced DCEU. Just make good movies about good characters. Stop forcing them to share a universe. It’s a gimmick by now.

 

[Mani-Man]

If I had my wish, there would be no forced DCEU. Just make good movies about good characters. Stop forcing them to share a universe. It’s a gimmick by now.

Would be my thing too mainly, but Avengers broke this all.
Now its all about shared universe and all, not just with Comic book movies.

Not that there is anything wrong with it, but i hate how this seems to be the main goal now instead of wanting to just do good movies that just exist in the same universe.

 

[Batgirl0202]

I'm firmly in the Reeves camp also. Let hm build up the Pattinverse anyway he wants...

The 'Shared Universe' thing hasn't worked out too well for WB so far. Just make good movies around interesting characters. DC also has a rich library of characters who would translate well to either film or TV.

Cameos in each other's films or shows is always fun but developing each character properly should be WB's goal for now.

 

[Invader Joker]

I'm firmly in the Reeves camp also. Let hm build up the Pattinverse anyway he wants...

The 'Shared Universe' thing hasn't worked out too well for WB so far. Just make good movies around interesting characters. DC also has a rich library of characters who would translate well to either film or TV.

Cameos in each other's films or shows is always fun but developing each character properly should be WB's goal for now.

It's kind of a moot point to keep repeating the whole "Shared universe is not worth it" thing since they are explicitly going forward with that in a big way. Whether we want it or not, it's going to happen so the best thing right now is to speculate with that reality in mind.

 

[antsman41]

...leave Pattinson/Reeves alone to flourish.

Keep Keaton on the payroll for cameos within the DCU.

 

[super85]

They should have just kept Affleck fulltime and not done any other projects with Batman. But they didn't(for many reasons) , and the entire thing is a mess with Iain Glenn being a strip club dancing hallucination of Dick Grayson on "Titans" and Keaton being brought back to DCEU movies, and then later having several of those Keaton-appearances cut out /cancelled. Affleck leaving and coming back in some capacity is also a part of that mess.

I think they will be stuck with either Keaton or Affleck in the DCEU and then Pattinson/Reeves movies for a trilogy or something. But DC /WB watering down their brand has been a thing for years, with various horrible Cosplay TV-shows filmed at parking garages in Canada.

My guess would be Keaton being a DCEU Bruce Wayne, and then having the Reeves films be done as its separate thing, since I don't think anyone believes that Affleck will do more than a few cameos or possibly some sort of event movie, if that is what James Gunn wants them to do.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Pattinson. The only good choice, short of some clear different version like a Batman Beyond adaptation. If Reeves doesn’t like it, let him finish his version before putting Batman in other films.

But having a second-rate Batman, be it Affleck or a recast, in supporting roles and cameos while Pattinson gets to be in the “real” movies does absolutely nothing to help DC.

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't really care for Robert Pattinson as The Batman.

Imo they should do whats best for the long run and for the DC movies as a whole - which is a unified DC movieverse.

How many Batman movies can Matt Reeves/Robert Pattinson do anyway before they move on to something else?

 

[Filmfreak]

Shared universes can work and be fun but by no means should it be the default choice for big (and small) franchises in Hollywood. Besides having more drawbacks than benefits, forcing it in the audience's throats with everything, and in most cases without even trying to form it organically, is hurting entertainment as is.

 

[psylockolussus]

Shared universes can work and be fun but by no means should it be the default choice for big (and small) franchises in Hollywood. Besides having more drawbacks than benefits, forcing it in the audience's throats with everything, and in most cases without even trying to form it organically, is hurting entertainment as is.

Having them separated had more drawbacks than benefits for Dc though.

What goodwill/boost The Batman gave for Black Adam though this year?

 

[Filmfreak]

Having them separated had more drawbacks than benefits for Dc though.

What goodwill/boost The Batman gave for Black Adam though this year?

How much money did Justice League make back in 2017 where there was one unified universe? All of their financially successfully films have either been stand-alones without having much connection to the rest of their universe (like Wonder Woman and Aquaman) or completely separate (like The Batman and Joker). And people liked them enough exactly because of that.

The Batman can't help boost movies that are crap. You know what would help a film like Black Adam in the box office? Being actually good. If DC focused on giving more filmmakers enough freedom to take their time, follow their vision and present something fresh and creative, rather than following the easy path of trying to force them to fit within a bigger picture, something that they already tried and failed in this company, they wouldn't have a problem selling their products to the audience.

 

[Babillygunn]

Having them separated had more drawbacks than benefits for Dc though.

What goodwill/boost The Batman gave for Black Adam though this year?

Conversely, the garbage fest that was BvS and Suicide Squad probably hurt Gunn’s excellent The Suicide Squad more than anything.
Shared universes are only effective if the products before it are good.
Case in point, I will see Wakanda Forever because of Coogler. But I’m very weary of most of the upcoming Marvel projects and very likely might not catch them in theaters because of Dr Strange 2, Black Widow, Thor Love& Thunder, and most of the Disney+ shows.
The DCEU is tainted primarily because of absolutely horrible decisions made in BvS. Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam were able to overcome those decisions, but I would venture to guess that their box offices might’ve been higher but for BvS, which destroyed a lot of goodwill with the audience.

 

[psylockolussus]

Conversely, the garbage fest that was BvS and Suicide Squad probably hurt Gunn’s excellent The Suicide Squad more than anything.
Shared universes are only effective if the products before it are good.
Case in point, I will see Wakanda Forever because of Coogler. But I’m very weary of most of the upcoming Marvel projects and very likely might not catch them in theaters because of Dr Strange 2, Black Widow, Thor Love& Thunder, and most of the Disney+ shows.
The DCEU is tainted primarily because of absolutely horrible decisions made in BvS. Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam were able to overcome those decisions, but I would venture to guess that their box offices might’ve been higher but for BvS, which destroyed a lot of goodwill with the audience.

And yet still those Marvel movies made money....

See what a shared universe could do.

 

[Mani-Man]

Conversely, the garbage fest that was BvS and Suicide Squad probably hurt Gunn’s excellent The Suicide Squad more than anything.
Shared universes are only effective if the products before it are good.
Case in point, I will see Wakanda Forever because of Coogler. But I’m very weary of most of the upcoming Marvel projects and very likely might not catch them in theaters because of Dr Strange 2, Black Widow, Thor Love& Thunder, and most of the Disney+ shows.
The DCEU is tainted primarily because of absolutely horrible decisions made in BvS. Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam were able to overcome those decisions, but I would venture to guess that their box offices might’ve been higher but for BvS, which destroyed a lot of goodwill with the audience.

I dont doubt that.
You got this kind of Emo Superman, then they had this really awful SS, then BvS that didnt let anything really breath, forced something that marvel did in 3-4 movies and threw in several stories into one movie.
Put the cherry on top with the JL mess...and then this lack of explenation to people in which universe the other movies happened...its no wonder if things are chaotic.

Like, you build a Shared universe, but then not?
People have no clue where really WW stands, Is Aquaman a sequel or a different universe than snyders? Is Birds of Prey in the SS universe which is in the Snyder universe?
Peacemaker and The Suicide Squad are in this weird kind of Snyder universe but also not?
Shazam is in the Snyderverse?

Shared universe or not, people...even comic book fans have no clue how to deal with this.
People just want to have consistency, no matter if fans or GA.
Even more so with the whole shared universe idea Disney created.
On that going for years without a real plan, is not helping at all.

I think there are more things at play of course, i think the obnoxiously loud, bad part of the snyderfans is playing huge role in giving all this stuff bad publicity, the probably fanboyish part of me does feel like Critics have a at least a slight agenda against DC stuff...but mainly its because they have a mess of a timeline going.

And it doesnt seem so far it ends there.
With Cavill back and meant for more projects, Black Adam and all that...unless we get a clear stance from WB on which Universe what is, things will keep being messy.

It is why i still was and am for a clean reboot instead of trying to force things into one shared universe.
Or at least to make it more obvious that certain stuff is its own universe instead of trying to force things to fit together.

Like, let Reeves Universe be on its own for example.

 

[psylockolussus]

I dont doubt that.
You got this kind of Emo Superman, then they had this really awful SS, then BvS that didnt let anything really breath, forced something that marvel did in 3-4 movies and threw in several stories into one movie.
Put the cherry on top with the JL mess...and then this lack of explenation to people in which universe the other movies happened...its no wonder if things are chaotic.

Like, you build a Shared universe, but then not?
People have no clue where really WW stands, Is Aquaman a sequel or a different universe than snyders? Is Birds of Prey in the SS universe which is in the Snyder universe?
Peacemaker and The Suicide Squad are in this weird kind of Snyder universe but also not?
Shazam is in the Snyderverse?

Shared universe or not, people...even comic book fans have no clue how to deal with this.
People just want to have consistency, no matter if fans or GA.
Even more so with the whole shared universe idea Disney created.
On that going for years without a real plan, is not helping at all.

I think there are more things at play of course, i think the obnoxiously loud, bad part of the snyderfans is playing huge role in giving all this stuff bad publicity, the probably fanboyish part of me does feel like Critics have a at least a slight agenda against DC stuff...but mainly its because they have a mess of a timeline going.

And it doesnt seem so far it ends there.
With Cavill back and meant for more projects, Black Adam and all that...unless we get a clear stance from WB on which Universe what is, things will keep being messy.

It is why i still was and am for a clean reboot instead of trying to force things into one shared universe.
Or at least to make it more obvious that certain stuff is its own universe instead of trying to force things to fit together.

Like, let Reeves Universe be on its own for example.

Its pretty clear that MOS, BVS, JL, WW, Aquaman, BIrds of Prey, SS and TF are set in the same universe especially if you have seen the movies. Black Adam too. Maybe WB just didn't do enough post credit scenes or references to the other movies, for some people not to see the connection? Shazam 1 had no cameos but Shazam 2 shows those superheroes in the trailer.

This "is it DCEU or not" were only ignited by Joker and The Batman which were huge successes.

 

[DeadlyWest]

When in doubt, treat it like the comics

Batman comics in general have a pretty starkly contrasting tone in comparison to the other comics that Batman often crosses over to. Use that as the blueprint, with Pattinson. Treat the ReevesVerse and his side of DC like how the actual Batman comics themselves are treated, along with allowing him to crossover. To be especially safe, do what the MCU did whenever the Guardians crossed over. Whenever Battinson is in a crossover, Matt gets final say on every character beat. It might start off a bit rocky, but that's the only choice imo that has any long term benefits.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I'm all for more Batfleck, Keaton, or a recast for the older Bruce (Bats ought to be wearing a mask most of the time anyways), to appear in new Justice League movies, should we ever get them. An older Bruce is ok for me. All the action is done by a double. Plus, when hanging with the league, it makes more sense for Bruce to be in some crazy tech armor to compensate for his human mortality anyways, not to mention he brings more to the table other than the physical, funding the JL, being the tactician, etc.

 

[Babillygunn]

And yet still those Marvel movies made money....

See what a shared universe could do.

The first Suicide Squad made money too. And it was awful. I’d rather have quality. Then the money will come. But if you keep feeding audiences garbage, they’ll stop watching.

 

[psylockolussus]

The first Suicide Squad made money too. And it was awful. I’d rather have quality. Then the money will come. But if you keep feeding audiences garbage, they’ll stop watching.

Well Tss and Bop didn't get enough money. You need quality and money.

Also, ftr, I disliked SS, Bvs and Mos. Just pointing out that they weren't the sole reasons why Tss and Bop flopped.