What was Green Goblin’s plan?

SockThief

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In the 2002 Spider-Man film. I was just sitting here thinking- what was he even doing in that movie? He got revenge the first time he revealed himself- at that parade. After that, was he just picking on Spider-Man? Did he have any greater goals beyond that? What was motivating him?
 
"To say what you won't. To do what you can't. To remove those in your way."

"Me your greatest creation, bringing you what you've always wanted, power beyond your wildest dreams, and it's only the beginning. There's only one who can stop us."
 
Pretty much. The Raimi movies are good movies, but they don't exactly deal in realistic villain psychology. What does Osborne want to achieve? To be an evil villain, because he's crazy. Which, being fair, is roughly the level of complexity that Osborne operates at in the *comics* most of the time, too.

( Which is one of the many reasons that Norman Osborne, World Class Supervillain Mastermind, is and always has been kind of BS. . .)
 
Yeah, never quite bought Norman as some mix of Lex/Joker as has become default in the last 20 years.

Of course I'm of the mind, especially with Spidey villains, that when they "die" they should stay dead in that comic franchise in the books.

Spidey was the rare big name book where Peter and his cast slowly moved forward through life and this included deaths big time that STUCK yet still resonated in the story and characters' lives in some fashion.

But then with Spidey there has been this tendency to want to take it all back to "classic" form which I will never get. Spidey was a married man well out of high school and college for most of my life until the OMD/BND double whammy continuity reset (And... a couple more since?) and now it is retreading the greatest hits like all the big names in super heroes.
 
I am generally okay with villainous resurrections, but the problem with Norman. . . well, okay, there are a lot of problems with Norman. *ahem* However, a few that really stand out:

1. Norman Osborne didn't just die, he died establishing a villainous legacy. He was the first Goblin but not the last, with both "Harry becoming the new Green Goblin as part of a complex, broken relationship with both his deceased father and best friend" and "The mystery of the Hobgoblin" being standout parts. Bringing Norman back to life kind of devalues all the stuff that happened later following his death.

2. The entire plot arc that brought Norman back to life was, simply put, kind of trash. There is a reason people talk about the Clone Saga with such disdain. If you want to bring a villain back, fine, but you shouldn't bring them back with a complete nonsense storyline, and then *firmly tie said villain's new status quo to that storyline*. Which is more or less the case, because the entire concept of Grand Mastermind Norman Osborne isn't part of his original characterization, its entirely an artifact of the Clone Saga "I am the architect of all your woes" retcons.

3. Speaking of which, "I am the architect of all your woes" is almost always a terrible angle for a character. Its cheap heat, and inevitably forces one of two bad outcomes: either The Villain Wins, because you've made them so omnipresent that they can't possibly lose; or The Villain Forgets To Win, because you've done that but have the hero arbitrarily win anyway. Either way, not satisfying.

It feels like a case of. . . Norman Osborne is important in everyone's eyes because of The Death of Gwen Stacy. Since he's such an important part of the mythos, someone decided such an important character must both be alive, *and have in-setting importance and influence in proportion to their out-of-setting reputation*. Which is a bad idea we are still stuck with.
 
To give the Parkers heartburn:

thumb_the-heart-osborn-first-we-attack-the-heart-my-cholesterol-44202835.png
 
The serum he took caused insanity as a side effect. He was just crazy and wanted to do crazy things. It was Norman's own ego in insanity induced overdrive.
 
I am generally okay with villainous resurrections, but the problem with Norman. . . well, okay, there are a lot of problems with Norman. *ahem* However, a few that really stand out:

1. Norman Osborne didn't just die, he died establishing a villainous legacy. He was the first Goblin but not the last, with both "Harry becoming the new Green Goblin as part of a complex, broken relationship with both his deceased father and best friend" and "The mystery of the Hobgoblin" being standout parts. Bringing Norman back to life kind of devalues all the stuff that happened later following his death.

2. The entire plot arc that brought Norman back to life was, simply put, kind of trash. There is a reason people talk about the Clone Saga with such disdain. If you want to bring a villain back, fine, but you shouldn't bring them back with a complete nonsense storyline, and then *firmly tie said villain's new status quo to that storyline*. Which is more or less the case, because the entire concept of Grand Mastermind Norman Osborne isn't part of his original characterization, its entirely an artifact of the Clone Saga "I am the architect of all your woes" retcons.

3. Speaking of which, "I am the architect of all your woes" is almost always a terrible angle for a character. Its cheap heat, and inevitably forces one of two bad outcomes: either The Villain Wins, because you've made them so omnipresent that they can't possibly lose; or The Villain Forgets To Win, because you've done that but have the hero arbitrarily win anyway. Either way, not satisfying.

It feels like a case of. . . Norman Osborne is important in everyone's eyes because of The Death of Gwen Stacy. Since he's such an important part of the mythos, someone decided such an important character must both be alive, *and have in-setting importance and influence in proportion to their out-of-setting reputation*. Which is a bad idea we are still stuck with.

Don't forget Mysterio picking Daredevil because he was dying he didn't deem Ben Reilly worthy of his final plan. You know even though Peter Parker became Spider-Man again before Guardian Devil even started.
 
This thread has made me realize that Spider-Man 3 is the only movie in the trilogy where the villain motivations make sense.

Green Goblin - After exacting his own personal revenge before even MEETING Spider-Man, he just wants to cause mayhem.

Doc Ock - Because he was influenced by the mechanical arms, he was hellbent on finishing his experiment for justification...and then what? If he had succeeded without destroying the city, he'd still have been considered a criminal.

Harry Osborn/New Goblin - Wants to kill Peter because he thinks he killed his father. Doesn't see reason because he's all doped up on Goblin serum, but the motivation still makes sense.

Sandman - Took to a life of crime because his daughter was sick and needed the money.

Venom - Eddie had good reason to hate Peter even though he made a really stupid move by faking the photo, so his motivation makes sense.
 

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