BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS) - Part 1

[shauner111]

INSTA-FRIENDS! That's this version of the World's Finest.

 

[Wams]

"What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice?"
Short answer. Nothing.

Long answer. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooothhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..........................................................ng.

 

[Lily Adler]

Nothing in the final battle makes that much sense. Lois goes back to get the spear after she threw it away. OK fine. But she starts drowning because the plot needs Superman to use the spear on Doomsday. Which is dumb to begin with because Wonder Woman is an amazon with this experience. She could have used the spear (you know, Kryptonite doesn't affect her). But the plot needs Superman to do it. After the Lois drowning fiasco, Supes goes under water to get it, even though Lois is fine now and could dip back in to get it with Clark watching over her to make sure she doesn't drown. Nope this makes both characters look embarrassingly dumb. He starts drowning because it's kryptonite. What a moron. What did he think was gonna happen? So Lois has to dive in to save his dumb ass. It's sooo idiotic that it makes me laugh. Superman almost drowned from just looking at the damn thing in the water, yet he has the ability to carry it in flight towards Doomsday without much effort. He doesn't launch it either, he uses the spear like a knife. Sacrifices himself cuz Zack wants Superman dead in order for Bruce to look smart as the leader. But none of this needed to happen. Lois could have taken the spear to Wonder Woman, who would use it, killing Doomsday. The trinity would be standing there ready to form the Justice League. Bruce and Clark could have had a great scene to talk things out, and a brighter ending where the heroes prevail to form the League.

Zack Snyder ladies and gentlemen!

To make Lois less stupid, have Bruce be the one who dropped the spear in the water. Show us why Lois immediately believes Doomsday is Kryptonian. You're right the whole final battle is riddled with plot holes and doesn't make sense.

 

[The Joker]

But it is still a dumb scene that made no sense because Bruce seeing Clark as human or not really was not established as Bruce's issue with Superman. Bruce's issue with Superman is that he thinks he's an existential threat to humanity. The one thoroughly done well scene in the film is the prologue that establishes this.

This is the central conflict of the title and it simply is not addressed by the Martha business whatsoever.

Yes, the memes and some characterizations reduce it down even more, but it has nothing to do with people not getting what the 'intention' of the moment is.

It's because this is the context for launching the entire DC Cinematic Universe. Batman and Superman's break through moment. The foundation stone for the creation of the Justice League... and what we get is a dumb, poorly written and executed deus ex machina that fails to address the only understandable premise the entire film has developed.

And you think it's peculiar that it's so mercilessly mocked...?

Exactly

 

[chintai80]

"What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice?"
Short answer. Nothing.

Long answer. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooothhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..........................................................ng.

lol how long it take you to type this?

 

[Loki882]

I think that Snyder just thought of "cool moments" without thinking through how to make them work logically first.

He couldn't figure out a plausible way for Batman to suddenly be cool with Superman, so lets do some half-a**ed thing about their mothers having the same first name. Which BTW, that COULD be an interesting little coincidence to play around with, and you COULD maybe do something interesting thematically with it, but Snyder does neither of those things.

Snyder wants Superman to die, and puts no greater thought into the logistics than that. How does Lois know about the spear's true importance (she wasn't there to hear about that)? Why couldn't WW use the spear (she's an Amazon warrior and presumably knows how to use spears, and she'd not affected by Kryptonite)? Or why didn't Superman throw the spear, or other basic logic questions?

Oh that's right. because Snyder wanted to cram DOS into the last part of this already jumbled mess, and didn't think any further than that.

 

[shauner111]

He said it himself that he needed to figure out a way to kill Superman because he only saw it one way: that it would be cool if Bruce was the one who assembled the metahumans. And he didn't see a way to do that without Superman being gone.

To make Lois less stupid, have Bruce be the one who dropped the spear in the water. Show us why Lois immediately believes Doomsday is Kryptonian. You're right the whole final battle is riddled with plot holes and doesn't make sense.

Bingo.

Bats threw it across the room anyway right? He could have just threw it underwater like you said.

I don't even remember Lois assuming it was Kryptonian I have to watch that scene again.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The last act feels like a first draft.

 

[shauner111]

An extremely rough draft.

 

[Lily Adler]

He said it himself that he needed to figure out a way to kill Superman because he only saw it one way: that it would be cool if Bruce was the one who assembled the metahumans. And he didn't see a way to do that without Superman being gone.

Bingo.

Bats threw it across the room anyway right? He could have just threw it underwater like you said.

I don't even remember Lois assuming it was Kryptonian I have to watch that scene again.

She just magically knows that the spear will help somehow. It doesn't make much sense how she could possibly known it would do anything unless Doomsday was Kryptonian. I would have had Batman crash closer to the empty building and yell to Lois that the spear is the key to stopping it and have him distract Doomsday with Diana.

 

[chintai80]

bad writing is bad.

 

[MrsKent26]

Maybe she thought Doomsday was Kryptonian because he came from the Kryptonian ship. The ship was throwing off that energy or whatever, so she'd probably know something was happening there.

That's just my speculation though. I have no idea what they really intended.

 

[Lily Adler]

Even with that knowledge it's still a leap. I honestly think the only way the DoS outcome in the final battle would realistically work is if Diana was removed from it entirely. Her mere presence creates the "why did Superman not give Wonder Woman the spear?" question. It makes his sacrifice make more sense.

 

[parkerpete]

The last act feels like a first draft.

Hahahahaha, the more I think about it, the more 'Batman v Superman' plays like a 'Drunk History' version of the movie it was supposed to be.

 

[chintai80]

Hahahahaha, the more I think about it, the more 'Batman v Superman' plays like a 'Drunk History' version of the movie it was supposed to be.

i wish i was a fly on the wall during the brainstorming sessions of the writing sessions for bvs.

snyder, goyer, and terrio probably downing shots then writing whatever down.

 

[GreenKToo]

I would have set bvs 5 or 6 years after Mos. BC would have been Lex.
The Opening would have been a montage of the actions of supes, bats, and yes even Lex over the last 5/6 years.
You would see quick glimpses of other villains they had encounteted, ie, lobo, riddler, etc.

Lex would have built his company around breaking the tech on the kryptonian ship(s). But For all his accomplishments, he cant get past his jealousy of superman. Everytime he invents something, the headline is of superman saving someone. Even bats steals his headlines. Enough. He throws his whiskey glass against a window.
His jealousy soon turns to obsession. He turns his mind toward destroying both the costumed freaks, but mainly superman.
He makes several attempts to kill superman using metallo, bizarro . etc all failures, which drives him even harder.

We see superman doing some saves, AND a proper unashamed shirtrip.

Lex creates an android of sorts ( his greatest invention yet) from the tech. It can take on any shape but its unstable. He sends it out.
It mimics supes and commits some crimes, does the same as bats, even kills.

So far, Batman and superman have left each other alone, but not anymore.

It sets supes and bats on a collision course. They have their first true encounter. It doesnt end well.

The android continues to destabilize. It starts killing just for the sport of it.

Diana shows up after discovering a signal from space is sent to metropolis. Its recieved at Lexcorp.
Same scene with martha and clark. you dont owe them a thing etc etc.

Alfred tries to convince bruce he doesnt believe superman is responsible for the crimes etc etc.

Round two. Knock down drag out between supes and bats. Each trying to capture the other.
The android has gotten out of the control of Lex. It adapts.

Diana as ww breaks into lexcorp and discovers the signals origin. Darkseid she mouths as her face turns white.

The android is drawn to superman's power. Its arrival causes the fight between supes and bats to cease. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Huge fight breaks out. it looks to be a draw until ww arrives.

She holds it with her lasso while supes punches and bats throws explosive batarangs at it. After a lengthy fight she removes its head with her sword.
she warns them that darkseid is coming and lex is helping him. She says they will need help. Bats smirks and says I may have some people in mind.

 

[shauner111]

She just magically knows that the spear will help somehow. It doesn't make much sense how she could possibly known it would do anything unless Doomsday was Kryptonian. I would have had Batman crash closer to the empty building and yell to Lois that the spear is the key to stopping it and have him distract Doomsday with Diana.

My god i can't even. It went right over my head. I just assumed she was told beforehand? I guess not? Hahah lord. It could be any experiment from Luthor right?

 

[MrsKent26]

My god i can't even. It went right over my head. I just assumed she was told beforehand? I guess not? Hahah lord. It could be any experiment from Luthor right?

Not really. It's in the Kryptonian ship, which was suddenly seen to be active after two years of dormancy. It's a fair assessment that what was being concocted was Kryptonian.

 

[Spiderdevil]

The question is not what went wrong, the question is that what is going wrong

It makes me mad, no, not the fact that this was a horrible movie and full of plot holes, not the fact that they massacared two of the most iconic heroes in one go, not the fact that it has created an uphill task for JL to conquer, it is the fact that they refuse to learn

You have Zack Snyder regularly misuderstanding the iconic comics and making his own twisted version of it, he also dishes out needless taunts on Marvel and MCU movies (Thor, Ant-man, Flavor of the week) despite the fact that he is a no-alent director, then you have WB who refuses to sack his useless ass, you have the WB's Jeff Goldstein saying there is a 'disconnect' between critics and fans, despite the fact that this thing crashed and burned at the box office after the big opening (all down to marketing) and showed no legs, it's IMDb's and RT's audience ratings are falling everyday, then you have fellow JL actors like Momao and Fisher poking jokes at critics at Instagram, even veteran actress Amy Adams comments on how she is 'shaking of the haters'

All this goes on to show that everybody involved, from the director to the actors to the WB staff have their head some much up their ass that they refuse to see the truth, they refuse to admit that they made a bad movie and hence the backlash, they continue to hide behind their rose tinted glasses of how critics are 'disconnected' and there are 'haters' and what not

The first step to improvement is admitting that you failed the first time around (or in case of DCEU, the second time around too), everybody connected to this refuses to admit that, hence I have absolutely no hopes for DCEU and JL movies. You are never gonna improve untill you admit what went wrong

 

[MrsKent26]

You have to wonder what Snyder has done in the eyes of WB to earn such unwavering faith from them. He's not of the eloquent variety, so I have a hard time imaging him making a convincing sales pitch. Once upon a time, he made good money with 300, but that was ages ago.

 

[MadVillainy]

You have to wonder what Snyder has done in the eyes of WB to earn such unwavering faith from them. He's not of the eloquent variety, so I have a hard time imaging him making a convincing sales pitch. Once upon a time, he made good money with 300, but that was ages ago.

Been saying this.

Last 3 movies before MoS didn't make money or make waves with critics. Don't get why they keep hiring him. It's just stupid business

 

[GreenKToo]

...

 

[MadVillainy]

Didn't you post that a few posts up?

 

[GreenKToo]

I did. Phone went nurtz. Sorry.
Anywho, I would have much rather have seen something like that than what we got. I just couldnt take Lex serious.

 

[shauner111]

The question is not what went wrong, the question is that what is going wrong

It makes me mad, no, not the fact that this was a horrible movie and full of plot holes, not the fact that they massacared two of the most iconic heroes in one go, not the fact that it has created an uphill task for JL to conquer, it is the fact that they refuse to learn

You have Zack Snyder regularly misuderstanding the iconic comics and making his own twisted version of it, he also dishes out needless taunts on Marvel and MCU movies (Thor, Ant-man, Flavor of the week) despite the fact that he is a no-alent director, then you have WB who refuses to sack his useless ass, you have the WB's Jeff Goldstein saying there is a 'disconnect' between critics and fans, despite the fact that this thing crashed and burned at the box office after the big opening (all down to marketing) and showed no legs, it's IMDb's and RT's audience ratings are falling everyday, then you have fellow JL actors like Momao and Fisher poking jokes at critics at Instagram, even veteran actress Amy Adams comments on how she is 'shaking of the haters'

All this goes on to show that everybody involved, from the director to the actors to the WB staff have their head some much up their ass that they refuse to see the truth, they refuse to admit that they made a bad movie and hence the backlash, they continue to hide behind their rose tinted glasses of how critics are 'disconnected' and there are 'haters' and what not

The first step to improvement is admitting that you failed the first time around (or in case of DCEU, the second time around too), everybody connected to this refuses to admit that, hence I have absolutely no hopes for DCEU and JL movies. You are never gonna improve untill you admit what went wrong

Even though i dislike this movie for the most part, i have to disagree with your point.

You can make a film that makes little money, or none at all, with critics bashing it, and you can still love it and take pride in it. And others can find things to connect to in that film. There's plenty of classic films that have made no money, panned critically, even with a small fanbase and it still comes down to opinion in most cases. There are facts with film though, much more than music. I think there's a ton of amateur mistakes this film makes on a technical level with both editing and screenwriting that one can't really ignore.

The difference here is that it's a huge studio with a massive DC slate planned. Any director would be fired and a Justice league movie would be delayed if this happened at any other studio, after the 28 percent rating & box-office drop for such a giant property. So something is going on with Snyder and his wife.

Im not sure if it's because he's connected to Nolan and Chris told them to give him another chance, or if it's because WB are scared due to their current filming schedule/plans with Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman. Maybe they figure it would look weak as hell if they pulled a Fantastic Four where the director was fired. Which made it obvious to the world that the movie is a failure. They probably don't want that to come across. So they're willing to give him another chance with Justice League. I believe if the same thing happens, they'll sack Snyder and the cast/crew will have no choice but to admit defeat.